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What is it with this attitude that if you post something critical or even just express a bit of concern the suddenly you are not a supporter of the club? It's nonsense. Most of those who are expressing their concens on this forum are doing so because they support the club and want it to do well. It seems some folk have lost touch with reality here and any difficulties that they might acknowledge are attributed to the financial position of the club and therefore somehow we are not entitled to be concerned about it. Let's look at just a coulpe of crucial positions in the side - central defence and striker. In central defence we have now let go or lost (however you want to spin it) 2 experienced and long serving central defenders who now play for a rival SPL club. As replacements we have a defender who suffered a serious injury last year and we really do not know how he will fare next year. Other players brought in to that position last year have left (so much for rebuilding) and the position is so desparate that folk are getting terrribly excited by a player who has played 3 seasons with Newport County who finished 19th in the Conference last season. And he hasn't even signed yet. Up front we have a striker who scored just 3 goals in 24 games and another (Shinnie) who, whilst he looked promising before sustaining injury last season is still to prove himself at this level. We made offers to our two leading scorers from last season but were unable to persuade either to stay. Other players have been offered contracts and despite being given a deadline have still to sign. Obviously they would rather be somewhere else too. Butcher promised to rebuild this side. Well he's certainly demolished the old side but where is the new? It's like building a house where you have been given an entry date and turn up a week before you are due to move in and find the roof isn't on yet. But no need to worry, Sir! It's all in hand. It may be that Butcher is the man for the job and will be able to bring in hidden gems from the lower reaches of English football. He has done so before but he has also brought some dross in. But when you compare our squad at the moment with others in the SPL you have to think of us as hot favourites for drop. So, in conclusion. Yes, I am worried but I will still be giving 100% to the team next season.

Here's a thought for you if you don't like someone's thread rather than just be rude why don't you ignore it I presume the same can be said for other peoples' posts on threads also [inserts well known Derek and Clive comment]

I despair. I really do. I see a player who has been playing part time football until the age of 27 as a signing that might be for squad depth. I certainly won't be expecting him to walk into the team and i'd like a couple more players with a better CV at the club looking for a starting place but i will give him his chance to show what he can do. If he performs exceptionally well and earns a regular place then great, if not he'll be the back up player that we need and what we have all expected from him in the first place. Do you? Why doesn't that surprise me? I have never read any football forum so packed with glass half full with a crack in the bottom fans that it is positively depressing. It certainly isn't particularly positive in any other way. Clearly never been on P&B then

That's the beauty of forums people get to post their thoughts even if they don't meet your expectations. Here's a thought for you if you don't like someone's thread rather than just be rude why don't you ignore it. Or will we just fill the forum with Butcher is wonderful threads to keep you happy?

It is the first one - the other two have fecked Superman

Lets give Gary a chance (assuming he signs for us). Let us not forget, many, many of ICT's all time legends hail from The Highland League and managed to more than compete at a much higher level!!

FFS! People moan when we sign inexperienced youth to play at the back, we sign someone older with experience yet still quite young for a player in that position and people still whine. Here's a phone number some of you might need: 08457 909090 Who remembers when this forum used to be fun? Or at least mildly positive? Sometimes!

A.B.E.

I despair. I really do. I see a player who has been playing part time football until the age of 27 as a signing that might be for squad depth. I certainly won't be expecting him to walk into the team and i'd like a couple more players with a better CV at the club looking for a starting place but i will give him his chance to show what he can do. If he performs exceptionally well and earns a regular place then great, if not he'll be the back up player that we need and what we have all expected from him in the first place. Do you? Why doesn't that surprise me? I have never read any football forum so packed with glass half full with a crack in the bottom fans that it is positively depressing. It certainly isn't particularly positive in any other way.

Happy for Morrison to get some extra matches in before pre season and he somewhat feels like a new signing for us. I have a good feeling about him for the season ahead.

Don't understand why everyone is slagging county's defence, they've already got a better pairing than us. We're signing 28 yr old part timer Gary warren to pair up with a centre back who might not even be back to his average self after that injury. I'm glad he's still playing in the spl though and it will make the derbies even better. Yet again county have gained from our stupidity. Tokely had one more good season in him.

Got it on good authority that he's been given a contract..... ........to paint the toilet and concourse areas.

Sorry Scotty, no idea on the teaching subject. I'm looking forward to following Caley Thistle next season. You've got yourself a new fan! Who knows, maybe Celtic will go tits up this season and make the Scottish Premier competitive! Here's hoping!!!!!

We have now lost Hayes, Tansey, Tade, Tokely etc, which in my mind are 4 of our best or most experience players. Before the end of last season when TB got rid of Munro and Duncan, he said he wanted to rebuild the squad with younger players to push on towards the top 6. Now at the end of this season, we are losing all our players again so yet again we are going to have a mismash team that have not fluidity, unity, dont know how to play together and wont have enought time to get used to each other before the start of the season. I really hope TB can prove everyone on here wrong and pull of some gems of signings but i have serious doubts. This season is make or break

Of course it is sad when fatalities like this occur but the reality is that the A9 is not a particularly dangerous road when you look at the stats. The road safety foundation regularly reviews road safety and rates roads based on the number vehicles using the road and the number of fatalities relative to that. On that basis, both the A9 (south of the Ord) and the A96 are rated as low to medium risk. The only 2 roads rated as high risk in Highland are the A833 between Drum and Beauly and the A86 between Laggan and Spean bridge. The 10 most dangerous roads in the UK are all in England and mostly in the pennine area and if you have ever driven on some of those you will realise what a pleasure it is to coast along on the A96. The statistics clearly show that dualing roads significantly increases their safety and so it makes sense to do this. But when you look at the stats more generally the reality is that the dualing of these important trunk routes is unlikely to be seen as top priority from a road safety perspective. It makes more sense to look at specific sections where accidents are more common and campaign for road safety improvements to address these identified black spots. The argument for more extensive dualing is more a journey time issue than a road safety one.

Totally disagree. No problem with red black and blue which commemorates where we came from. One team but with two great histories before.

Johndo's new hobby in retirement. Making walking sticks.

Feck me I was going to say yes before I read that !!! I am sitting on the fence - I put faith in him last season and he failed miserably. However lets all hope that he proves us all wrong. After all this season has to be looked at as Butchers team - irrespective of whether he can sign the players that he wants or not.

Have answered yes because I dont feel we have any choice but to go with the flow at the moment. Not panicking as there are plenty to come in yet but I am worried about the way things have been going. Lets see how things go.

Se my post #7 on the "Where is the £250K?" thread.

Oh but we are in a position to sign the Ian Black's of this world, just you wait and see

Football fans have extremely short memories when success is being served up. No one cares who the players are or where they have come from when your doing well. Its now 100% going to be Butchers team, so he if he is doing well at xmas the fans will forget all about Tokely, Munro etc BUT if we are scrapping about at the bottom of the league, and playing crap football the fans will completely turn on Butcher. For me its a make or break season for our esteemed leader.

Well having read all 303 posts - my conclusion? I really hope that some of you subscribers are not called up for jury service!! It is wonderful how you are aware that he had his income reduced by 50% - his other half is in Inverness(instead of Aberdeen) - he fell out with the manager and a long rant about the managers mind set and then a degree of withdrawing this point and so many more. There is no doubt you folk are correct, you express it so often - TB to the gallows - guilty party, cannot manage our wee team. As they say in the best jury circles .......................... "Bring in the next victim!!"

for those despairing that he has been playing P/T ... just remember that Dougie Imrie came to us after progressing from Juniors to SPL in a short timeline ... and he did ok for us !!! it may not be a common occurence, but its not impossible. Give the guy a chance ....

Gordie, it kinda depends on what "slant" you want to put on the finances. Accounts for the last few years have indicated that the business has an average operating shortfall of about £250,000 per year and the situation was worsened by the near £1 Million that relegation cost us which resulted in us selling off the last of the family silver. That's the not so good side. The slightly better side is that we have no real debt...partly because nobody is stupid enough to give us any...and we are scraping by and surviving. With the loss of Dunfermline then we probably do have one of the tightest/smallest budgets in the SPL. Ross C*unty will likely end up being smaller, but they will have people willing to throw a few quid at it for a couple of years (as we did) which will likely give them more spends than us for now. In terms of the squad situation...our situation is no doubt one creating due to the financial situation as we can only offer wages and deals that will appeal to the kind of players we're getting in and in order to stretch the budget as far as we can then that needs bolstering with loan players. There's a common (and mostly true) conception that loan players have part of their wages met by the club they go on loan to, but I believe some of our loan signings may have cost us next to nothing because other Managers and players themselves have seen the value in coming here to train under Butcher and get some game time....which is what I was getting at in regards to "would other Managers have that pull"....so I can't personally apportion the situation to bad management and truly do worry what like things would be under a different manager. It's not nice and it's far from ideal, but it is what it is and the only real alternative is probably to have a squad which contains part-time players!!! I also think our situation this season has been made to look worse because we had more loan players than planned due to injury and suspensions....so we effectively had more "leave" (go home) at the end of the season than might otherwise have been the case. In terms of "local signings", we lost our way with that a bit during our relegation season when we were forced to cut back and it will take a year or two yet to fully recover (assuming we can maintain SPL status) so I expect that situation to improve again in time.

Doofer, I wouldn't class you as one of those who seem to get more of a kick out of beating up on the club than they do from supporting it and perhaps should have made it clear that the second part of my post was not aimed at yourself, just a follow on to my thoughts on the content of this (and other threads of a similar nature). I do understand and share the frustration and concern, I just don't necessarily agree with some people's reasoning. ICT is where it is both financially and in terms of the squad. I don't like some of the stuff that happened to put us here and believe things could have been very different....but que sera. It's not all happened in the last couple of seasons either and I would argue that much of the damage had been done long before that and if not for some of the things done in the last few years (not all of them nice, but mostly necessary) then things could be a hell of a lot worse. We have a choice as fans, we can keep digging up everything that has gone before to use as a stick to beat down current efforts or we can accept we are where we are and turn our efforts to improving things for the future. In regards to Butcher....it doesn't matter who the manager was, at some point we were going to lose the last of the long standing players and club legends. Do people really think it would be any different under anyone else? We are in a situation where....like it or not....the club can only survive and compete by bringing in players with potential as opposed to proven and/or seasoned professionals of the quality some seem to expect and Butcher is better placed than any Manager we've previously had, or could reasonably expect to get, to do that. We're never going to be producing 6 or 7 local lads who are good enough year on year to sustain what we had in the past....in many ways we are the victim of our own success in that regard because whilst we were able to bring guys like Munro, Tokely etc through the ranks along with and have them develop side by side with the club, we now have to be producing lads who can step up to the SPL pretty quickly as we have neither the time nor resources to keep them on the books year on year in the hope they make it. We've just had our most disappointing season ever and whilst I accept that Butcher didn't always play his cards in the best manner possible, it wasn't helped by fate and circumstance pulling the aces from his hand at every turn. IMO, the fact we survived and escaped relegation despite all that is worthy of credit in itself. If some people really think the answer is to sack the management, then I ask who we are going to replace them with and what they expect a new manager to do within the setup we have that is not being done right now. Yeah, it's sad to see Tokely leaving, just as it was sad to see Munro, Duncan, McBain, Wilson, Wyness, and dozens of other leave before them....that's football and despite the doom and gloom stories which are spouted every time it happens we are still here. Same goes with Managers....not everyone likes Butcher, but not everyone has liked any of our previous managers and nor will the all like any future managers. That's fine, but not liking someone doesn't give you free rein to invest stuff and dish out abuse. Again, I'm not getting at you, but some of the stuff that's been posted on this forum lately in that regard has been nothing short of disgusting and it serves no useful purpose whatsoever. I've gone off on a bit of a tangent here, but as with a few of the other threads and trends on here just now, some people do need to look at the bigger picture, appreciate that we have no right to anything and are in a financial position which means we need to operate in a way which is a bit out of the normally accepted/expected parameters. It might not be the most pleasant, certainly at times like this when we are all wondering/worrying about what next season will bring. At the end of the day we each have a choice....we accept our lot are work together to improve it, or we start throwing around the insults and abuse and add to an already difficult situation!!!! That's not to say we can't criticise or comment, but it needs to be done in a constructive fashion.

Why shouldn't he celebrate scoring a goal for the team that pays his wages? to show abit of respect to the fans the supported him for 16 years of his career perhaps So no players should celebrate scoring against their former teams? (I guess the same should apply to Munro too) Depends what you regard as celebrating, a smile, a hug from teammates? I very much doubt he'd go running up to the ICT fans jumping for joy. Perhaps just a wee wave to Butcher. Also you say you are not happy with him? I presume for moving to County, would you have been happy to help cover his mortgage, or costs for moving house instead perhaps? not the fact he went to county, the fact he ran to the papers the instant he seen his offer. i dont think thats the right way to go about it, a quiet word with butcher, and a goodbye in the papers, or through a club website, or something.would have surficed. the way he went to about every paper in the land and said he wasnt happy with the club, the manager etc. its not the right way to leave after 16 years. i can understand why at our level if hes offered something better over the bridge then i have no problem with him leaving for that but its the manor that frustrates me. Why shouldn't he celebrate scoring a goal for the team that pays his wages? to show abit of respect to the fans the supported him for 16 years of his career perhaps So no players should celebrate scoring against their former teams? (I guess the same should apply to Munro too) Depends what you regard as celebrating, a smile, a hug from teammates? I very much doubt he'd go running up to the ICT fans jumping for joy. Perhaps just a wee wave to Butcher. Also you say you are not happy with him? I presume for moving to County, would you have been happy to help cover his mortgage, or costs for moving house instead perhaps? not the fact he went to county, the fact he ran to the papers the instant he seen his offer. i dont think thats the right way to go about it, a quiet word with butcher, and a goodbye in the papers, or through a club website, or something.would have surficed. the way he went to about every paper in the land and said he wasnt happy with the club, the manager etc. its not the right way to leave after 16 years. i can understand why at our level if hes offered something better over the bridge then i have no problem with him leaving for that but its the manor that frustrates me. The first time I have ever seen you post anything remotely negative regarding anything ICT and it's against the clubs biggest legend.

its not a matter of i dont know how to counter you its a matter of i cant be ersed anymore, conspiracy theroies/agendas are all bullshit youre trying to shove down everyones throats, you dont take anyones views into account. and youre signature 'i told you so' sums you up. stuck up.

Why shouldn't he celebrate scoring a goal for the team that pays his wages? to show abit of respect to the fans the supported him for 16 years of his career perhaps So no players should celebrate scoring against their former teams? (I guess the same should apply to Munro too) Depends what you regard as celebrating, a smile, a hug from teammates? I very much doubt he'd go running up to the ICT fans jumping for joy. Perhaps just a wee wave to Butcher. Also you say you are not happy with him? I presume for moving to County, would you have been happy to help cover his mortgage, or costs for moving house instead perhaps? not the fact he went to county, the fact he ran to the papers the instant he seen his offer. i dont think thats the right way to go about it, a quiet word with butcher, and a goodbye in the papers, or through a club website, or something.would have surficed. the way he went to about every paper in the land and said he wasnt happy with the club, the manager etc. its not the right way to leave after 16 years. i can understand why at our level if hes offered something better over the bridge then i have no problem with him leaving for that but its the manor that frustrates me.

I believe Tokelys other half works in Aberdeen and he spends all his spare time there so the "settled in the area" theory doesn't really stack up....hence my slight surprise that the stories of him signing for C*unty, which have been going around since before the season ended, actually came to fruition. My biggest worry for next season is our own support....or a small but vocal section of them who are more present on these forums than they appear to be at games. Some seem unwilling/unable to get beyond Munro having being moved on and are caught in the mindset that the Tokely scenario is exactly the same. No appreciation for the fact that he WAS offered a contract and making assumption that it was a contract designed to make him leave. Those people seem so locked in to that negative mindset that you can be sure they will be practically wishing failure on the team (again) this season so they can deliver a stream of "told you so's"....as if their opinions being vindicated in such a manner is more important than the clubs success. I hope that people can achieve a bit of perspective, snap out of it and get fully behind the team before the start of the season.

We are a 3000 fan club struggling to compete in this league. How the hell are we supposed to finance a scouting network?

I'm going to open a can of worms here and state that after the game against Hibs I was told Roscoe was going to County. I hinted at this in my post on page one of this thread, however wished for a resolution from within to keep him at the club. I'm not so naive as to apportion blame for the whole sorry fiasco, there are obviously underlying issues and Ross was covering his options before it hit the press. Say or think what you like about honesty and injured parties, but hey let's face it...........when and where were honesty and integrity last associated with football. I'm truly sorry to see the guy go, no one will ever equal his achievement of one club at all senior levels in Scotland, now all I wish for is Butcher to follow him out the door.

You know, I've gone over and over pages of comments on Rossco today, just as I did after Grant and Russell were released. I couple what I'm reading with the weekly comments throughout this season past and the one before. I then balance all that with the good luck comments afforded to Cowie Blackie and Rankin when they left. Those last three were three of the best players ever to wear an ICT shirt. They chose to move on to teams south of Inverness. They were thanked for their services and wished every success. No problem there. Its what I'd expect. Going back to the first three players mentioned I could search through this site and find hundreds of comments, from many of the same people who are crying foul now, about how crap they were in the last couple of seasons. Russell was one of my favourite players yet no matter how he played, week in week out he was slated as someone with no skill. Someone who couldn;t pass a ball. Grant to me was a very good defender but I can find many comments that say he is crap. He panics. He hoofs and hopes. Rossco was an excellent right back but I didn't think he was as happy one place in. He would go on runs down the right. He could work the overlap and many times he could bring about a goal. More recently he wasn't able to get back so quick and he was chastised and slated because he was out of position. It was said he was too slow. If I was to put all the negative comments made throughout the last couple of seasons in one post it would look like the whole world were unhappy with the contribution those three made in many games. Now, I know from a good friend of Grants that he was let go due to clash of personalities and refusal to take on some additional work for the club. Russell, in my opinion, was deemed to be not up to what was required this last season. Ross was offered a contract that this club felt was all they could offer. He chose to turn it down. Without knowing what his contract entailed I cannot comment on what was right or wrong. Player contracts can be very complicated. Low basic but additional bonuses for games played etc. Now it seem to me that, what riles people most is that these three were players who were long service. But wait a minute, Barry Wilson was long service. Did he get the same accolades when he was let go? Nope. He done the dirty by breaking his service for a spell at Livi. I think what riles people most in this situation is the fact that those three have crossed the bridge. Personally I wish them all well for the few years they have left and if playing for County keeps them in a wage a bit longer then so be it.

Our loss is County's gain.......again. Thanks Terry, you really are proving yourself to be something else!

I've always thought County manage to offer better contracts than us when we are competing in the same division. Either that or the player just normally decides to go OTB.

can anyone tell me when our friendlies are and who they are against

Disappointed with the lack of respect being shown by some here for an ICT legend. Good luck Ross.

Ross has beem a tremendous servant to ICT for more than a decade and a half but, when all said and done, football is his career and his source of income. Whatsmore, it's a career that is coming to it's end. In these circumstances, if he can squeeze a wee bit of additional income out of his final couple of seasons by making the only move that doesn't upset his domestic arrangements then who can blame him. Good luck to Mr ICT overthebridge....

Why shouldn't he celebrate scoring a goal for the team that pays his wages?

So nobody knows what kind of deal Foran got then....bar it was a two year one? And even I knew that! That would make him around the same age, when it is up, as Tokely is now.....so we'll see then how much of a Captain Untouchable he is....won't we? Age isn't the issue, performances are what matter. As for Foran, I guess it will depend if Butcher is still here in 2 years as to what contract he receives.

So nobody knows what kind of deal Foran got then....bar it was a two year one? And even I knew that! That would make him around the same age, when it is up, as Tokely is now.....so we'll see then how much of a Captain Untouchable he is....won't we? So over the performances of last season you think Foran merited a 2 year deal while Tokely gets his current deal slashed considerably? I would say Tokely had a better season than Foran overall.

Who cares! We looked dapper

I don't think I'll buy one because of the way the club treats it's long serving players... Oh wait, sorry. Just with other threads going the same way I'm in the habit of seeing negativity... I buy a shirt every season and actually liked the design of some of the other clothing range last season. The white tracksuit jacket in particular. Looking forward to seeing this years design. Hopefully it'll be striped again and not a 'swoosh' effect as per a couple seasons back.

I see no conspiracy whatsoever here. Tokely has been at the club a long time and I'd imagine he's one of our top earners. Nobody knows if he's able, at his age, to complete another full season at full fitness. He's been offered a deal for another year at a reduced wage. How reduced I dont know. This deal has not come about because anyone wants rid of Tokely. Its come about because we cannot afford to keep him at the salary he was on. Look back over the last few years at whats been happening. Every year we have had a 1/4 million shortfall in cash needed to survive. Alan Savage stepped in with that amount. Then a few directors chipped in with a similar amount. A deal was done on the social club to subsidise another season. A consortium comes forward with a similar amount to cover last seasons shortfall. This season the club has said the playing budget is cut. This club is struggling to make ends meet as a full time club in this league. We cant go below a 24 player first team and we also need an U-20 squad. Perhaps the only way to achieve that is to cut wages and find players that'll put themselves in the shop window for a move to a bigger wage elsewhere. That to me seems the only way this club can survive and no amount of bleating is going to put funds in the coffer. At least not unless the jackpot is mine tonight.