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I loathe this attitude of "if you disagree with the status quo/manager/board/other fans, you should go away". Such an attitude is detrimental to everyone and leads to more alienation in some quarters of the support. ICT have never had trouble in the past of signing Scottish players which go on to be successes - then again a decade ago, the club had a manager who was the best scout and judger of Scottish playing talent bar none. How times have changed. The problem here is that Butcher seems to be marketing the club in such a way that players, particularly those based in England who have been punted by teams down south, as a kind of place to come and play for a year and attempt to resurrect their career for a move back to England. In other words, Butcher's turned the club into what is basically a Glenn Hoddle Academy of the north. If it were just one or two players that this policy was used for then it would be okay, but when you build a whole team out of it, that's when problems arise. This team needs to be a team again, as it was in the past and if it doesn't the feelings of disconnection between the players and support will continue and could well end in a having squad not good enough to compete at this level.

Absoluted disgusted by events of the last day or so. I was delighted when I heard that ICT had voted No To New Co in the SPL. I sincerely hope that they are not involved in any way in trying to railroad these proposals through to keep Rangers in SFL1. My interest in Scottish football is, like many others it would seem, hanging by a thread. What happens with Rangers is going to make or break Scottish football as far as I am concerned. I've already refused to renew my season ticket at ICT until I see what happens with "New Rangers". It's about time that people accept that Rangers are, for all intents and purposes, dead. The only way forward now is to get themselves sorted out and prepare an application to see if they will be accepted into SFL3 and start again. Anything else is an absolute insult to the rest of the clubs currently playing in the SPL / SFL who are living, for the most part, within their means. There is absolutely no way that Doncaster and his minions would be trying to force all these measures through if it was ICT or St. Mirren or Ross County who were in the same position. The fact that Rangers seem to be getting preferential treatment is utterly sickening and proves what most of us have suspected all along and that is that Scottish football is geared towards catering for those at the top, and more specifically, Rangers and Celtic. I hope the SFL clubs tell the authorities where they can stick this "proposal".

why dont we rename this thread, messi, ronaldo, and xavi. because it seems to me no one will be happy until we sign players of their calibre. can we all just get a grip. get used to the fact that we will be signing players from lower english leagues, it doesnt matter what theyve done in the past its what they do in an ict shirt that counts. some posters on here arnt happy when we sign players on loan from the premiership because they dont give their all for the shirt and arnt here for the long term and they arnt happy when we sign a player from a lower league who is more likely to stay because they dont possess enough quality. it seems to me that no matter what steps the club take no one is ever happy. well youre all going to lead sad lifes in that case. the club try their best to bring in the best players possible and if you cant accept that they arnt all going to be the shizzle then i suggest you go support barcelona, real madrid, chelsea, man city, manchester united, or bayern munich. if you want other suggestions for clubs i think you should support pm me.

I'll reserve judgement till i see the new boys in action but to some extent i agree with you and have the same doubts. The club dont have the excuses of last season for the changes and i find it hard to believe that we are faling to attract players in Scotland as this wasnt even a problem when we came back up to the SPL. I refuse to believe that players in Scotland price themselves out of a move here, that is the club more or less saying that clubs in a lower league can afford better terms than us...concerning. What does worry me is that this was supposed to be the ICT of the future and a year on we've gone backwards if nothing else. A mass exodus that has included our top scorers and other first team players does not bode well as we will have the same problem next season if the current crop impress and bigger team comes calling. The stalwarts that left e.g Munro and Tokely were what made this club special and now that they have gone there is nothing that really seperates us from the rest and i think we just have to come to terms with it. The buck has to stop somewhere though. We cant keep reshaping and rebuilding every season, its not healthy, especially if the club are as serious as they say about making progress. As ive said i will reserve judgement though, its early days and TB has a reputation for finding some gems...heres hoping, still got faith.

Was interested to see how many ‘local’ players we had when we were first promoted to the SPL. There is certainly not as many Scottish players in the squad now but the amount of ‘local’ players isn’t too dissimilar. I have classed Aberdeen and North as local 1. Bayne, Graham NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 2. Black, Ian NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 3. Brewster, Craig NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 4. Brown, Mark NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 5. Carricondo, Juanjo NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 6. Dods, Darren NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 7. Duncan, Russell LOCAL 8. Fetai, Bajram NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 9. Fox, Liam NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 10. Fraser, Michael LOCAL 11. Golabek, Stuart LOCAL 12. Hart, Richie LOCAL 13. Hastings, Richard LOCAL 14. Hislop, Steven NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 15. Keogh, Liam NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 16. McAllister, Rory LOCAL 17. McBain, Roy LOCAL 18. McCaffrey, Stuart NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 19. Munro, Grant LOCAL 20. Proctor, David NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 21. Prunty, Bryan NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 22. Smith, Jonathon UNKNOWN 23. Thomson, Darran NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND 24. Tokely, Ross LOCAL 25. Wilson, Barry NOT LOCAL CURRENT LOCAL PLAYERS: RYAN ESSON, GRAEME SHINNIE, ANDREW SHINNIE, SHANE SUTHERLAND, MARTIN LAING, NICK ROSS SCOTT MATHIESON (U19 KEEPER, IIRC HE IS LOCAL) So between the team we were first promoted to the SPL with compared to our current (incomplete) squad there is a 9 v 7. I think the issue here is players are no longer committing to clubs for more than a couple of years hence we dont grow attached to them and feel like they are local. The likes of Barry Wilson, players from Aberdeenshire way like Duncan, McBain, Tokely etc all felt like local players because they were with the club for so long. This is just a result of the fact that money is so much of a pull factor. Gone are the days where football was about football or loyalty. Its all about the £ these days

Well here we go again. Another pre-season, another bunch of strangers in ICT shirts and quite frankly, I don't like the way it's going. Last season we had the same scenario, but we put it down to much-needed changes,necessary for SPL progress, and sorta hoped that these guys would form the nucleus of Terry Butcher's new ICT and hang around for a few seasons. But they've gone now and our manager has trawled the English lower leagues for another bunch of journeyman, mercenaries, prostitutes or whatever you want to call them. Will they be any good? - I certainly hope so, but I doubt it. And will the same thing happen next season, and the one after? And what is the point of Inverness being represented at football by a team made up largely of players from another country? The thing is, if there are not enough players from the Highlands, of sufficient quality to play in the SPL, then Inverness really doesn't deserve to have an SPL team. And if they're all playing for Ross County, perhaps we're supporting the wrong team!

Fair enough, CaleyD.......but the "briefing" document must have had the approval of at least the majority of the boards of the SPL, the SFL and the SFA......don't you think? Otherwise their names in the document were taken in vain and the whole thing is simply wishful thinking on the part of the SFL. Alternatively it must have been made up by Doncaster, Regan and Longmuir, together in a smoke-filled room to threaten/blackmail the SFL Clubs into accommodating Rangers. And in that case, they should be summarily dismissed. In either case it is little more than scaremongering and blackmail..and an absolute disgrace. The irony is that it is all on behalf of a Club who would, if it had been wanted anywhere else at all where it might have made more money, have happily, along with their partner in greed, left the rest of the SPL without a backward glance to sink or swim without them. Rather good critique of the rather half-baked "document" here. http://scotslawthoug...ll-authorities/

As I said already, I think people are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing (at the moment). It's blindingly obvious that these stories/documents being leaked do not have widespread approval from the member clubs of either the SPL or the SFL and are being pedalled by the few who are looking to try and cash in on the Rangers/NewCo mess. What's also been clear in all of this is that Doncaster couldn't be any further out of tune with the whole situation if he tried and even before the Rangers/NewCo thing was living on planet lala with all his talk of 10 team top leagues and how the fans thought it was a great idea etc. I personally attach zero credibility to anything that comes from him. Does anyone actually remember anything this man has said which the member clubs and/or fans have agreed with at any point during his tenure? How he's still in the job is anyones guess!!! Take a step back and actually look at all these press comments on things....you'll find it's the same one or two names attached to them all. Either that or it's all "A source close to" or "A source inside" or "We believe that" I think the SPL Clubs now clearly understand that the fans will not accept NewCo in the SPL, nor will they accept any manoeuvring on the part of the clubs to create an environment which sees NewCo gain an easy path to the SPL. For the most part I think the SFL Clubs will understand that very same message. Aside from anything else, if it were all some elaborate plan to get fans to buy Season Tickets, then why would every club not come out and tell us they plan to vote "No"?

Although I agree that we shouldn't pre judge them, they don't sound like the most inspiring signings. Their careers being punted from pillar to post in the lower leagues of England and Spain doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence. We used to bring in players we thought would be good, now we bring in players we hope will be good. The thing thats most annoying for me now, is that we're not a team anymore. We're a collection of individuals brought in for 1 year then its a whole new team again the next season. I look at Dundee Utd, the amount of players they've brought in from lower leagues (even part time) who have come in and been a huge success. I don't understand why we dont look down there for players, i dare say we could afford some players on part time wages who want to go full time. And whisper it, maybe even a 2 year deal!!

Rangers are an enormous institution selflessly subsidising not just Scottish football but much of the wider economy. For that reason, I have come to the conclusion that the normal rules should not always apply to them. I know that they were not in the original draw but I seriously believe it is time to stop persecuting them amd to cut them some slack by allowing them to compete in the Ramsden's Cup.

And what have Ramsdens got in common with Rangers? They both buy silverware!

I despair that some people think TB makes the decisions on what deals people are offered. Tried and tested players only get the 2 plus year deals as the club are petrified they will be stuck with average players on longer deals should they be relegated. We can't buy tried and tested players because we are skint (please don't say RT). If we can find another 2-3000 supporters a season that wouldn't be a problem. But we can't because we are average because we have to rebuild each year as we get people on 1 year deals. Some folk need to start asking the right questions instead of making assumptions. Understanding needs to be had on how our budget works.

Don't think they do.........but this is silly season, after all. If there is nothing to whine about.....well, they'll just whine about nothing. Stop whining about nothing.

I'm with the OP here. The chips are down for Rangers and the Ramsden cup is the plaice for them. Let's hope someone gives them a battering.

I'm not trying to run this Oswell guy down just yet, but can't see him being any more than a substitute/bench player at this time. He might have scored nineteen times in the Welsh League, but remember Andy Barrowman scored more than that in Division Two, which for my money is probably a significantly higher standard.

Part of the problem is that the youth players aren't ready to step up, going by the U19s' league performance last season. All the same, County seem to be succeeding without a Butcher-style trawl of lower-league England. No doubt I'll be pilloried for negativity but it's noticeable than whenever any rival club is looking for a manager they never headhunt Terry. I wonder why not.

Although I think the original post was a bit too negative, until we have seen these guys play, I think we have to reserve judgement on their abilities. What is concerning again is that they are all on 1 year deals. No real issues with this if the club moves to sign the players up on longer deals if they prove they are worth it but that doesn't seem to happen or happen quickly enough. Part of that may be down to players not committing themselves but I cannot believe that is true for all the players. I would also say that this is not unique to ICT and no SPL clubs have the majority of their players from their "local area" any more, those days are long gone unfortunately. However, that is what we have to strive to get back to with a good local core of players supplemented with others from wherever. As the previous poster said, a lot of who we perhaps thought were "local" players were not but seemed so because they were here for a long time. I also think too many posters look back to the Pele era and think it can be replicated again but I don't think it can as football constantly moves on. What i do think we need to do however is to try and integrate more into the community, generate more "local" players and be a club where loacl players know they will get a chance. This is not only down to the club but needs to involve the Council and perhaps the SPL/SFA (fat chance of that) but this should be our long term strategy. It pains me to say that the club does not appear to have a long term strategy and exists season to season. New blood is needed in the boardroom and possibly at managerial level if the current signing path for players we appear to have does not produce the results this season. For those who think this may be easy to achieve however, a word of caution. Look at the English Premier league, they all have academies etc but how many of the players produced go to the EPL. Very few as the clubs are more willing to spend money on foreign imports as that buys success quicker. We have to be careful that if we get to a predominantly local/Scottish team that doesn't produce results, that we, the fans and the Board don't then go down the route we appear to be going down at the moment. In other words the fans and board have to determine where they want to be in 5 years and start to make plans to get there. As I have said, this vision is sadly lacking.

We signed Ryan Esson, Paul Sheerin, Ian Black, Jonny Hayes, Lee Cox and Richie Foran from lower league football in England, Here's hoping the current batch of mercenary prostitutes are as good as they were.

IHE Do you think you could have a word with that frenetic penguin. He obviously knows his way around a keyboard. I,m in desperate need of a Vision Board 2 with large 1 inch keys. Looks like he is having a whale of a time though. Walmart has them in the United States of Americcy but won't ship them to Canada, not even to their Walmart stores in this country. Why?- Because they have a buyer for the U S and a separate buyer for Canada.--and never the twain shall meet ................ GO Figure! In any event we have had an EAGLE playing for us so why not a Raven? And I am sure there must have t least one Robin in our past even if he wore a Hood=ie ? Oh well, hopefully he will turn out real good and then some of the posters won't have too much to.. grouse.. about...eh?

It's clearly funny sarcasm. The op starts off by trying to completely defend rangers in such a way it could only be portrayed by a blue nose. He then finishes saying they shouldn't be banned from the ramsdens cup. This is an insult to rangers as all rangers fans think they are too big for this cup. To suggest they shouldn't be banned and can play in what is a small meaningless cup to them is funny. The ramsdens cup is the league challenge cup btw. Teams competing from div 3 to div 1.

Realism albeit bordering on the pessimistic is probably highly representative of many fans and only happy clappers with extreme rose tinted spectacles could respond as you have.

The worst and most negative post I have ever seen on this forum, I would hate to be a newly signed player reading this thread. Your a disgrace and your comments are not helpful and not welcome.

Aye right lol! Ok the ramsdens cup and only the ramsdens cup.

Anyway...what rules? The ones which only last until they become inconvenient and are then re-interpreted to suit? No need to bend them.......we are talking about Rangers here.....the club which, like the banks, are deemed to big and important to fail..by themselves and their supporters mostly, but also by too many Scottish Football Clubs who appear to rely on them for their existence..or think they do. The rules are expendable.......just as they were with the banks. All it illustrates is that money talks louder than anything else....louder than fairness and decency, financial acumen and probity, sporting integrity........just basic honesty. Now, maybe it's just me...but if any business relies one single source of income to make the difference between profit/breaking even/manageable debt....and bankruptcy/liquidation or whatever.......then it is a business which is not offering a product that enough people want to buy in the numbers required....or is pricing that product out of the reach of the general population....and is a business which wants to get a grip on the reality that if it cannot structure its product to exist without a "sugar daddy" then it has no viable product. If we kowtow to Rangers illusions of their superiority in Scottish football now, and make concessions to them....will that not set a precedent for the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock, or Motherwell or, heaven forbid, ICT, etc spending silly money and doing exactly the same? Funnily enough, I don't think it will...any more than I thought Ardrieonians under the guise of Airdrie United were entitled to buck the rules and get an immediate return to the SFL......and that is the main problem, imo...the SFA, SPL and SFL have nothing to do with the good of football in Scotland.....but everything to do with pecuniary self-interest. They may disguise it as concern about the clubs.....but if the SFA had ever been at all concerned about Scottish football, they would never have agreed to the SPL, the vehicle for OF hegemony in the first place....they'd just have said to the OF......"if anybody else, anywhere else, wants you.....bugger off and leave us to do our own thing. " Well past time Scottish football decided to join the real world of the 21st century..and stopped actively encouraging sectarianism by giving the two most sectarian clubs in Scotland an importance in the game which embarrasses every other team in it because the telly likes to film Rangers/Celtic matches, because they are not allowed to film dog or ****-fights.

Most clubs of our size tend to be selling clubs yet we are losing players for free. With the greatest of respect to the players we have signed under Butcher many of them have been poor aquisitions who have come from obscurity. I look at a First Division club like Dundee who at the end of last season signed Mark Futheringham and Carl Finnigan, recently signed John Baird from Raith Rovers and were linked with former Scotland international Nigel Quashie and I can't help but be a little frustrated that a club in a league lower than ourselves (for now) are signing name players. I appreciate that we are under budget constraints but I find Butcher's transfer policy of signing players from England with a history of injuries or with little experiance of first team football rather frustrating when I'm sure there are players in Scotland who would jump at the chance to play in the SPL who may well be available for a similar amount of money. Today we signed a striker whose main experiance is in the Welsh Premier League which is of a very low standard. I'm not judging the lad until I have seen him but I can't help but think it would be easier to sign someone from the SFL2? We have seen three players sign today and I have never seen any of them play so I can't judge how they will turn out. I hope they do well, I hope Butcher does well, I have renewed my season ticket today but I can't help but feel a little cynical about the season.

So it's more like Gamm over then

IF this new proposal is true and the BBC are correct in saying SPL clubs will vote, then I urge Kenny to vote NO. This is nothing short of bribery and is corrupt to the core. For years there was no reconstruction so that smaller clubs could be kept out. Now the shoe is on the other foot. I'd welcome play offs etc even if it means we're more likely to be relegated, as it's good for the game on a whole. But not, if the team getting promoted has not earned the place there. It HAS to be Division 3, or no SFL for Rangers. Any bribes should be rejected. The fans have made it clear. Any successful application must start in Division 3.

I would like to stay with the stripes. Old fashioned view but i think every club should have a standard strip that is part of their idendity and just a few tweeks here and there every season.

Given that they have players under contract (as well as all the other employees) how would they avoid going bust again? All I can think is that they could travel around playing exhibition matches like the Harlem Globetrotters. Except they'd be the Govan Taxdodgers. And they wouldn't get near the 'hoops'.

Fantastic. I shall be renewing my season ticket immediately. As I live in London, I only ever get to about half the home games so I only buy the season ticket to support the club, who are now once more deserving of that support. Well done to the board and the Chairman. I am now off to look at the fixture list and get logged on to flybe.com. PT

The teacher said, "Let's begin by reviewing some American history. Who said 'Give me Liberty, or give me Death'?" She saw a sea of blank faces, except for Little Hodaiki a bright foreign exchange student from Japan, who had his hand up: 'Patrick Henry, 1775', he said. 'Very good!' Who said, 'Government of the People, by the People, for the People, shall not perish from the Earth?' Again, no response except from Little Hodaiki: 'Abraham Lincoln, 1863'. 'Excellent!' said the teacher continuing, 'let's try one a bit more difficult...' Who said, 'Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?' Once again, Hodaiki's was the only hand in the air and he said: 'John F. Kennedy, 1961'. The teacher snapped at the class, 'Class, you should be ashamed of yourselves, Little Hodaiki isn't from this country and he knows more about our history than you do.' She heard a loud whisper: 'F . . k the Japs,' 'Who said that? I want to know right now!' she angrily demanded. Little Hodaiki put his hand up, 'General MacArthur, 1945.' At that point, a student in the back said, 'I'm gonna puke.' The teacher glared around and asks, 'All right! Now who said that!?' Again, Little Hodaiki said, 'George Bush to the Japanese Prime Minister, 1991.' Now furious, another student yelled, 'Oh yeah? Suck this!' Little Hodaiki jumped out of his chair waving his hand and shouted to the teacher, 'Bill Clinton, to Monica Lewinsky, 1997!' Now with almost mob hysteria someone said, 'You little ****. If you say anything else, I'll kill you.' Little Hodaiki frantically yelled at the top of his voice, "Michael Jackson to the child witness testifying against him, 2004.' The teacher fainted. As the class gathered around the teacher on the floor, someone said, 'that`s it, we're fecked!' Little Hodaiki said quietly, ‘Ally McCoist, 2012.

Disagreeing here boys. There's six weeks until the start of the season and there is no way that Pariah FC will be ready by then. I reckon suspended from all competition for a year while league reorganisation and funding rationalisation takes place. Where they go depends upon what further skeletons rattle their way out of the cupboard - and there is the potential for some feckin huuuuuge ones, never mind what Charlie Greens or Strathclyde Polis's next move might be. £124 219 412.37 in debt, of which 94 426 217.22 is due to the nice tax man? There are questions in there that are going to take a lot longer than 6 weeks to answer. Oh aye and the SFA have still got to give a new, approved punishment? Take a year out please chaps, and get your sh*t together.