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Scotty has major surgery tomorrow. Please join me in wishing him all the very best - may his consultant/surgeon be totally successful and Scotty have a good outcome and thus enjoy a Happy Christmas followed by a healthy peaceful relaxing 2019. My love to you Scotty and to your nearest and dearest too. Liz S x

The article you speak of is here: https://nareystoepoker.blogspot.com/2018/12/in-defence-of-liam-polworth.html And you appear to have done your best to misrepresent it. Anyone reading this can tell that the link to Iniesta is quite obviously tongue-in-cheek. I was comparing how elsewhere skilful players are lauded for what they do, whereas in Polworth's case his good bits (his assist for Walsh's goal, his incredible assists record last season, even that nutmeg of Billy King by his own corner flag) rarely get any praise whereas every mistake he makes comes under the spotlight. And the 'neanderthal' description was not used as a reference to the MOTM award (though the people sitting around me were not booing the award because it was 'bizarre', because they were making abusive comments about Polworth at the time too). It was a reference at the end of the article to those who abused his family earlier in the year, who slag him off every week regardless of what he does, who are making him a scapegoat for the team's - and the club's - ongoing struggles. And there are too many of them at home games. Frankly, anyone who thinks that booing their own player will actually improve his performance is not very bright. As for 'just desserts', I'm not sure what that even means? Put Polworth in a team with a centre-forward who shows any intelligence whatsoever in his off-the-ball movement (we certainly don't have one in our squad currently) and watch him fly. I'm fed up of seeing him driving into the final third with the ball and looking for a killer pass to play, only for his teammates to be tightly marked and either making the same runs they have done all game or just not running at all. And when he is either tackled or tries to force a pass that isn't on it's him who gets the blame every time instead of his attackers.

Jesus wept...

Ok, I am closing this topic. I have scanned it but have not read it all, and am not going to. I have had a few personal emails about it and really dont have time for all this right now. My cancer surgery is tomorrow and I do not have time to deal with this additional stress. As the group of adults on this site no longer appear to be able to conduct civil discussion on any bloody thread whatsoever without reducing it to personal backbiting and pissing contests I am seriously considering winding up the entire site in January. I am going to be recuperating for several months and do not have the time or inclination to babysit people. There is little to no enjoyment in this site any more. It used to be a place where a bunch of sensible folks could talk about ICT and our connection back to the club or to the area. Now it is not and is seems to have become a place where keyboard warriors want to flex their cyber muscle and try to score points off each other. Thats not what I spent time and money creating 25 years ago and its not what I am willing to keep putting money into.

While I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post, I don’t agree with this part. The thread contains a number of ‘man in the street ‘ type responses which you are right to challenge. You may meet similar views in a pub but I would like to think you would challenge such views rather than leave your pint half finished and walk out. The gadgie post was rightly removed before anybody could react to it. Some will greet your words with ‘snowflake’ etc but as in so many aspects of life, the key to dealing with prejudice is always the same - education.

All this religious sanctimony and snowflakes, really feels like Christmas now.

I’m probably the most lapsed catholic that I know but I have to say that I find some of the responses in this thread crap beyond belief. I had thought, for years, that sectarianism was a problem that existed in the central belt and was largely absent here. I wonder how I got this so wrong, so: “Oh dear, grown men on a night out using swear words. I won't be losing any sleep over it”. So is a clear statement of sectarian hate acceptable? If it’s not acceptable to sing this in the middle of Glasgow on a Saturday night, it’s not acceptable anywhere. Using the expression “F**k the Pope” is, by definition, sectarian. If you said it at a football match, you would be prosecuted under the OFBA. “It's not the smartest thing that has been done, but because it has been videos and published somewhere some drunken 'humour has been deemed to be sectarian. There's worse being said at play school” This is wrong in its entirety. It is clearly sectarian and the very opposite is taught in schools. The deleted post by “Gadgie Coff” was gone before I could screen grab it but it was stunningly poor to the extent that it was probably criminal in and of its self. There is a problem within the Catholic Church with inappropriate sexual behaviour but the assertions in that post were inaccurate and exaggerated. Those of you who saw it will make your own minds up about that. “Racism is prejudice against people for what they are, and is many levels more serious than religious bigotry” Wrong. Both are equally serious in the eyes of the Law and both have been at the root of untold misery- ask people in Northern Ireland. Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry. “Yes it did go over my head, so why wouldn't the same draconian exercise be undertaken when someone blasphemes the name of God or Christ rather than the Pope? who after all is a mortal man masquerading as the Vicar of Christ on earth” By all means hold your view but does that really have to demean others? Masquerading implies deceit through appearance. It’s not, it’s simply a different way of expressing faith to yours. “No one is defending it, as Christians we are taught to love our neighbour of whatever belief , Romanist, Muslim, Buddist but the comments of Bdu 98196 displays all the prejudices of the Roman inquisition. If no one accepts guilt you are all guilty, all must atone, no appeals. That said, why should anyone have respect to the Pope who has usurped the place of Christ. who says to followers of the Roman sect "come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her sins and that ye receive not of her plagues" Rev18:4.Note: MY people. Roman Catholics are MY brethren and I have many RC friends whom I hope to convert to the true path before this life is done”. By implication, you do not recognise Catholics as Christian and given the rest of your post I can understand why. The office of the inquisition was abolished in the 18th Century and to be honest you simply use the kind of exceptionalist arguments that they would have used against you. I wouldn’t ask you to respect the Pope, I’d ask you to respect everyone. By the way, Christ said nothing about Catholicism. His death predated and informed it. You are chronologically wrong. “Acceptance by fans of religious hate crimes -really ? Tad hysterical don't you think” No, for the reasons stated above. “I agree completely with that, but it sits at odds with your previous post. Irish Catholics are hated in Scotland, not because of their religious choices, but because they belong to or were descended from a large group of migrant 'others'. That's where the parallel with racism comes in” Are Irish Catholics hated in Scotland? Not in my part of it. Your history is wrong. Scotland was a largely Catholic Country until the reformation in the 16th Century. Only then did Protestantism become the dominant religion, got exported by Scots to Ulster and the rest is actual history. I’m not a RC but I’m a Christian and I do understand that RCs may find the term FTP offensive but as Christians we have to turn the other cheek as Christ taught us. What annoys me is the faux outrage that goes on today as we live in a blame culture and there is always some do gooder wanting someone to be punished for minor issues. Maybe if we adopted what Jesus said when he caught a woman in adultery. He said to all the accusers who wanted her punished, He who is without sin cast the first stone. Maybe we should all think about this before we criticise” Punishment? No, all I want is people to see that this tripe is unacceptable. Full stop, so I’ll criticise. Sorry about the length of this but all this thread has done is tell me that there is a broad stripe of low grade sectarianism voiced here at the football club I have supported for years, some of it by people I genuinely thought knew better. My kids were brought up Catholic and one of them now teaches in a Catholic school. I know that they would be raging if they read some of the stuff here. I am on their behalf. If you want dramatics, this is my last post here. I won’t be back.

My impression is that this is someone being a bit of a **** and thinking he is clever or funny, dropping this into the song like this. It could be the drink talking, but clearly some individual has an underlying issue...aside from stupidity. I was going to say I'm disappointed that this has happened at a club where I didn't expect it, but in reality I never under-estimate the ability of a young male to act up under the influence. Sectarianism does seem to be a bit of problem North of the border, Down here we just have to deal with casual and not so casual racism, and the re-emergence of anti-Semitism (although much of this seems linked to Palestine and the Left, and political point-scoring). Of course social media makes things worse as it is so easy to get caught out...which in one way is a good thing, but of course offence is caused before the attitude can be challenged. I suspect that the club is looking in to it, and will take the appropriate action, which might not be sacking but the use of suitable life-coaching (and a fine of course).

Acceptance by fans of religious hate crimes -really ? Tad hysterical don't you think ?

Someone, anyone, please delete this thread. Worse than the video if that's possible. Fckn embarrassment on all fronts.

Some of our players come in for abuse and are overly criticised at times namely Polworth and the strikers. A different way to look at this we have three centre forwards who have some of the best conversion ratios in start/goals in the championship , Polworth does get assists and is a decent player, but so are the strikers their goals ratio to starts would back that up, but I think we would get more from Polworth and more goals if we played two up top together.One of the best games Polworth had was when we changed to 442 after being three goals down to Queens away and pulled back to draw in last twenty minutes of game.Polworth got the space in middle of park to drive forward as we played with width, stretched the game, and defenders had two forwards to contend with and space opened up. I personally think the formation is stifling Polworth with 3 in the middle and we would get so much more goal opportunities with having two forwards on from the start.In thinking all of this i looked at the stats of our strikers compared to their peers in the Championship and looked at our midfield to front players stats in their time with the club. In my mind 4231 is not getting us the wins we need , so surely when we have three of the best strikers in the league at least maybe the manager should try them as a pairing to get more goals. In all competitions this season White 13 starts 8 goals ratio of 1.62 only Shankland Dobbie and McKay have better ratios of top 25 goalscorers from Championship Austin 7 starts 4 goals ratio of 1.75 only Shankland Dobbie McKay and White have better ratios Oakley 10 starts 5 goals ratio of 2 only Shankland Dobbie McKay White and Trouten have better ratios If you take league games only Shankland Dobbie and Mckay have better ratios than both Oakley and White, thats why I get annoyed when the strikers are constantly criticised as these two guys are decent players. We play five midfielders every week out of six and only play one forward out of 3. Have a look at stats below which is all games started for the club and goals scored, maybe this is why we dont score enough goals, we are not giving enough starts to the players who will get the goals by only playing 1 forward every game. Actually we dont play Austin at all now and he has marginally the best ratio of all players. I understand the strikers should have the better ratios but to play five midfielders and only one striker is not helping our quest for goals. player starts goals ratio % chance of scoring AUSTIN 16 10 1.6 62% WHITE 13 8 1.62 61% OAKLEY 39 17 2.29 43% WALSH 21 7 3 33% DORAN 148 28 5.28 19% WELSH 16 3 5.33 19% POLWORTH 147 16 9.18 11% CHALMERS 63 5 12.6 8% Trafford has started 32 games and yet to score, Vigurs on the other hand in his last spell with us here started 106 games scoring 21 goals ratio of 5.04 which relates to 20% chance of scoring a goal when starting. I think its fair to say we miss him as he brings a bigger goal threat than all other midfielders apart from Tom Walsh. Some people dont like stats and say you can use them to prove anything, but surely they give a little insight as to why we may be hampering our chances of scoring the goals we need to win games Maybe this could be the time for the manager to at least try something different and give two lads out of three an opportunity to start some games together for the benefit of all 4 players including Polworth and the club .If we dont try we wont know if a partnership of Oakley and White would work ,Robbo hasnt tried these two as a starting pairing all season, maybe now is the time. Maybe we have the answer in front of us just by tweaking things and changing formation to 442

https://oilersnation.com/2018/12/16/gdb-game-notes-oilers-canucks/ Yes this is a very nice picture. It's of Vancouver in British Columbia and this one looks across the water to North Vancouver which is almost as "Pukka" as farther left into West Vancouver where the cider apples grow and houses cost well over 2-3 million dollars or more It's hard to deny the reasons why we want to stay in this realm of beauty. Every sport is available here and some even enjoy just paddling their feet in the water. And the mountains behind North Van are ski hills in the Winter which is very handy if you are into such great activities. So we don't have SFA football but the Vancouver Canucks are a very nice substitute(won last night 5-1).n'est ce pas? Tonight they entertain the Edmonton Oilers and will be lucky to get a win since the Oilers have at least 3 terrific goal-scoring machines on their roster. 3 periods of hockey each of 45 minutes can flow past really fast when the excitement builds.. ...Enjoy the picture..

Wow, that must be nearly as much as RF got from us?

Good post. Interesting stats. The point about Polworth driving forward is an important one because all too often when he does try to drive forward, there is so little on in front of him. Not only is there not an obvious ball for him to play but opposition defenders can close him down without leaving someone they are marking, or even leaving any real space that other attackers can run into. We simply don't get enough players forward quickly enough to stretch the defence. We have a wide park and our game should seek to exploit the space that allows. Welsh, Chalmers and Trafford never get forward enough in my view and as a result we are always outnumbered up front except when we break quickly after corners etc. Playing 2 up front obviously leads to you being a bit more stretched at the back but it is hardly a novel concept and works well for many teams. As you say, our strikers do, in fact, have decent conversion rates and they would be scoring more if they saw more of the ball. White, like Polworth, has also come in for a fair bit of stick, but whilst there are some obvious weaknesses in his game, he is good at being in the right place at the right time, which is why he has scored as many as he has. Get more guys forward to open up a bit more space for Polworth's creativity and goals will come.

Why does religion always have to spoil things?

I had a ticket for the Kenny Dalglish Stand on Sunday. I thought he was doing a grand job ?

I don't know if you've noticed but there are a large number of female deities. I accept though that your personal deity is male.

Dark days these "banter" years......

"Shocking stuff", "Shocking complacency", "Truly shocked" - there's a lot of shock on this thread! I'm shocked at all this "faux outrage"

We can't you're right. Something has certainly gone pear shaped with the discipline but in the case of RC I believe that incident occurred prior to his arrival at ICT. Unfortunately he was on our books when the case came up and dragged our clubs name through the media and we know what those vultures are like. As far as the video is concerned I struggle to understand why any player would want to post this crap on social media knowing that the vultures will pick it up. I don't condone what was allegedly said of course but players have to be very careful and be more responsible.

It may surprise you to know that followers of every religion maintain the arrogant belief that theirs is the only true path! Even the Free Presbyterians!!! And it would be a fallacy to suggest that the Rangers/Celtic thing (which, lets face it, is what this is all about!) is motivated by religion . It is motivated by hatred, and religion is only an excuse.

I would have thought even Sevco would have responded to such a sectarian outburst by one of their players. Not only is the club silent, you have guys on here defending it. Shocking stuff.

Kingsmills, stick to the story. Why would you suggest that, are you accusing me of being a racist? My comment is based on the fickleness of the modern pc brigade. I'm not religious therefore the alleged swearing doesn't put me up or down. It's not the smartest thing that has been done, but because it has been videos and published somewhere some drunken 'humour has been deemed to be sectarian. There's worse being said at play school.

I fully agree, he is the one decent player we have left and we should all be careful what we wish for

I'll come back to the stats later. Excellent post though. Austin playing off a big man like White or Oakley has never really been tried. I fear that Robbo knows what most of us have worked out - Polworth is our best CM by a distance, but Polworth plus A.N. Other in CM ( e.g. Trafford or Chalmers) will get overrun. So he uses 3, which means we can often dominate the possession, but do sod all with it. Maybe if we got somebody like Draper on loan we could get away with it. Now, back to the stats. You're trying too hard in repeatedly saying that the strikers are "decent". They're not, not at the level we aspire to be anyway. Bizarrely you've quoted starts/goals rather than the other way around. You're implying that our 3 are somehow just behind Shankland etc. The fact is there is a huge gap between the best strikers and the rest. If you take White as 8/13 = 0.62, then Shankland is 18/16 = 1.13 (league only). That's double the strike rate. If you include Cup games it's 1.26. White is 26 and has had 10 clubs. His most significant spell by far was 2 years at Livi where he scored 21 in 69. At 3 of his other clubs he scored no goals at all. For a big man he can't jump, and his second touch is a tackle. Oakley and Austin have similar histories. George had 3 years at AFC Wimbledon where he failed to score at all. OK, only 9 appearances, but he's been loaned out to lesser clubs and failed to impress. Somebody recently, an AFCW fan, said he was surprised George had ended up at us, as he thought he wouldn't make it at English League 2 level. I don't know if you're old enough to remember Wyness, Ritchie, Wilson, Bingham, Hislop, Xausa, Christie. All players challenging at the top of the second tier and coveted by rival clubs. And later on, Hayes, Foran, Rooney. If any of the current 3 are transferred/loaned in the window it will be to Lg 1 clubs. I realise we are where we are though.

Good post Gregor although I am not always convinced about stats we do need to tweak things as the current way we are playing is not working.

He'll be able to buy Kew Gardens with his gardening leave money.

By far the best and most measured post on this thread.

As I've said, while I personally think it is bizarre, I have no difficulty with others who do have faith in a supreme being whoever she may be. I have faith in human decency and respect for others. I may not have 'brethren' who may or may not need converting to my particular way of thinking but I do have brothers and sisters all over the world whatever their religious allegiance or lack thereof. Christians do not have a monopoly on decency, morality or respect for others.

For those who think all this is just 'PC gone mad' etc., if you came out with this stuff 30/40 years ago you would have had a far stronger reaction and most likely a sore face for your troubles. Being a sly racist/sectarian does not make you a man. Having played football back then, I never heard anything like this because men knew how to act and it would only be the weakest ones who would try anything like this. They would soon be put in their place. Sadly, being a right-wing tw*t is now equated with being a man, but make no mistake this is a new thing, and shame on anyone who goes along with it.

Pele was a sound guy and would never have put up with this kind of sectarian bile creeping into the club.

Imagine they'd had instagram and camera phones when Pele was our manager.

Have to agree the team went on a night out sang songs which some now want to deem religious hate crimes. It appeared to me that the lads were all having a good time and it was a bonding session , whilst I think it was unwise to use the term used it certainly wasn’t religious hate. I’m sure these guys all see this as banter but it should be pointed out to them in future that this would be well steered clear of and also to point out to stop taking videos and posting online . We are all getting in a froth in this country about a harmless night out while our government are banning Gingerbread men Whole country has gone to the dogs and needs to get a grip on reality

Maybe a bit of an over-generalisation there, in my opinion anyway. I certainly have no issue with Irish Catholics and haven't witnessed this sort of thing in the part of Scotland I inhabit, but I take your point if you're referring to the Strathclyde region.

I agree completely with that, but it sits at odds with your previous post. Irish Catholics are hated in Scotland, not because of their religious choices, but because they belong to or were descended from a large group of migrant 'others'. That's where the parallel with racism comes in.

I have no objection to those who believe in some supreme being for which there is absolutely no evidence for and ample evidence against. However what I do object to is those who have a mission to CONVERT those of us who, in their opinion, have taken the wrong path. Religion is at the root of much of the conflict in the world today and for the last two thousand years. If you want to worship then it is your right to do so but please don't shove that nonsense down our throats. As for converting your Catholic 'brethren' what dangerous arrogance

Truly shocked by the lack of reaction by fans on here and that it's deemed to be a minor issue. Shouting FTP or anything else religious, racial or sexually orientated are not acceptable in modern society. given the club issued a statement to all fans last year about how to act right now it has to act in accordance with that or will loose (more) fans and respect. If a fan will be banned then a player must be too or more. If as an adult you make decisions to drink and break the law or employer rules then you should be man enough to stand up and take the punishment.

Where did I accuse or even imply you of being racist ? I was clear that I equate religious bigotry with racism. I opined that, should one of our players, be established to have shouted a sectarian expression, he should be dealt with severely. As far as you are concerned, I was and remain of the view, that your attitude to the matter is complacent and too dismissive. I have no problem with drunk men swearing, I do so myself, I do have a problem with offensive sectarian language. We may play in predominantly blue but I have no wish for us adopt the standards of another team that has similar colours.

With a player jailed and austin guilty of doing over 100mph on A9 and fighting in our own dugout and other things rumoured you have to wonder where the discipline has gone at the club. We can't blame that on a lack of money.

There was a few times when in the top tier we even struggled to muster even 13 fully fit players. However now the opportunity is there for the youngsters to stake a claim for the first team.

I have had the odd wager and find it occasional fun. However, I am also acutely aware that it has ruined the lives of many including our longest serving manager who was brave in going public on the issue.

I've never made a bet in my life but best of luck with this endeavour.

Happy days £10 every week on draw loaded in no time

I've no fecking clue what's going on in this thread noo...

no matter the circumsatnaces he was very well paid for failure so I certainly don't feel sorry for him . l feel sorry for people who lose their jobs and struggle financially.

If you are taking players north you basically get what you are paying for. We need to start the likes of Roddy on a regular basis and take them off when appropriate. We don't have a sugar daddy to keep happy by playing in the top league and we certainly don't have the infrastructure to comfortably play there. Let's face it, we are a mid table championship club so lets become a nursery for young talent and get on with it.

Shankland is having an incredible season but my point is that Oakley and White have only 3 strikers ahead of them in ratio of goals to starts. I think if asked most fans if you could have two strikers who would score around 1 goal every 2 starts then they would be very happy, my point is we have these strikers in Oakley and White and if we play them together we may get more goals. If White and Oakley had started the same total number of games as Shankland and Dobbie which is 23 then given the ratio White wouuld be on 14 goals with Oakley on 11 which is more than decent halfway through a season.

In all honesty, I don't see anything wrong with it (yes, I know, unpopular opinion), it's simply banter. 1. They're boozed up, we all do stupid stuff when on the beer. 2. They're not personally attacking anyone, realistically, if the only one I can see being (slightly) offended is probably Aaron, because he's the only Irish lad left at the club, and would have Catholic heritage, but if he was that irritated about it, he would've gone to Robbo or the Chairman personally and privately and explained the situation. But again, they're not targeting anyone, all they're saying is "**** the pope", and Austin, no doubt has had a private word with Graham and the Board. 3. As for your "sack them all if the guilty party won't own up" comment, do you want this club to exist? If we continuously sack players any time they get into controversy we'll have neither the youth players or funds to replace them. Riccardo's sacking was justifiable, because it was physical assault, but this, this is verbal assault against nobody. I highly doubt the pope is going to find the video and say "This Nathan Austin guy is a wee ***** for saying this about me, going to knock his lights out for that", literally nobody but the PC Patrol and maybe a handful of Catholics would actually be offended by the video. It's like when what's his face from Dundee United blacked up for a party, literally nobody cared, except the people who were getting offended for people who weren't them...

Yes it did go over my head, so why wouldn't the same draconian exercise be undertaken when someone blasphemes the name of God or Christ rather than the Pope? who after all is a mortal man masquerading as the Vicar of Christ on earth.

So you are seriously suggesting the whole squad be dismissed ( including the innocent) because someone offended the Pope (Inquisition at it's finest)???