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St Johnstone have a very, very different setup to ours and it is one that is beyond (and has always been beyond) our reach without Millions upon Millions of pounds of external investment. St Johnstone were handed a free, fully equipped, SPL ready, multi-purpose facility in a prime location. In contrast, ICT were forced into an over-priced, badly positioned, poorly planned, facility lacking stadium which showed no hint of foresight (in design or location) and left us with an unmanageable debt for a club the size we were at the time and we've never really been able to overcome that...in fact the problems have been added to because a club already weighed down by lack of funds and debt then had to find the money to expand and over the years any/all assets have had to be sold to keep the wolf from the door.....when you have a business which needs to do that, then it's hardly likely they can find the funds to expand and create new income streams. That's not to say the club haven't made mistakes or that they do everything perfectly....no business does, including St Johnstone. However, St Johnstone are in a position whereby the business can absorb the occasional error, mistake or failed initiative....we aren't. The situation is what it is and there's little to be gained from moaning about the past, but it's not impossible for ICT to get into the position that St Johnstone are in. All that it needs is for the City, it's businesses and it's people* to start giving a bit back to the club that has done more to put Inverness on the map and bring money to the place since 1994 than anything else. *I don't include fans/people who do what they can in terms of buying tickets, merchandise, following the team, giving their time etc.

Absolutely right. Attendances in England are generally keeping up and in many cases improving. People would turn up if the product was right. Of course, there have been times when ICT have played attractive stuff under Butcher but in general it has been pretty grim stuff and many fans have been voting with their feet. There has been plenty discussion on this forum about the quality of football on show this season. Part of that may be the calibre of the player we can afford but it is also down to tactics. It is Butcher who stopped Tokely going on his rampaging runs up the park and Butcher who stopped Munro using his long throw. And, yes, I know we got caught out from time to time when the guys did that but we enjoyed watching it and Tokely's scoring record perhaps suggests the tactic paid off more often than we got caught out. I still feel that Butcher has done quite well results wise since he's been here so he must be doing something right. Unfortunately, he is also getting a lot wrong. The coming season will be make or break time for the manager. It will be his 4th season with his team and it will be fair to judge him on how we do both in terms of results and the entertainment value provided. There are some who expect top six but to my mind that is unrealistic. I think finishing no worse than 9th would be a realistic expectation of where we would expect to be with a manager in his 4th year but frankly I will be both surprised and delighted if we achieve that. Looking at the way last season went and how the closed season is progressing I'll happily settle for 11th and really don't care whether County finish above us or not. We must be favourites for the drop. Come on Terry, prove me wrong!

I don't think it is all bitterness, people are rightly concerned with the way things are going with Butcher Luke. This season will be a testing one and I hope your optimism is proved to be correct

The club makes a loss of several hundred thousand pounds every year and needs that sort of injection every year to keep us full-time and solvent.

ICT can't afford the wages because they don't have enough fans in the Inverness area interested enough to attend the games....so doesn't that indicate that Inverness has an SPL team, but much of the town doesn't care at all. And would that not, logically, indicate that Inverness has the SPL team it deserves? Maybe not the SPL team those who do attend the games think they deserve, and I can see their point......but a manager and board can only afford the players their income allows them to employ.....and if the punters don't provide the income, the manager and board can't sign the players.

Of course you have your concerns, we all do but go on get yersel down to the stadium and help the team out! Like a marriage there are good and bad times, sometimes you're in bed with a smile on your face, sometimes your on the sofa and sometimes the other half really p*sses you off but deep down you know you still love them :love02:. So go get that ticket!!! After all in either case there's always the bar.... :drinking04:

I have to agree with 12th Man here. A lot of people are far from happy with what is happening at the club at the moment. Nobody is disputing that a lot of people are working hard for the club, indeed, their efforts are greatly appreciated but people have opinions and have every right to express them. Of course, a forum such as this will always have a small minority who are deliberately contrary but increasingly we are seeing folk who are the bread and butter loyal supporters of this club expressing significant concerns about a number of issues. When that happens the club should sit up and take notice. The club cannot afford to lose its support and therefore needs to understand their concerns. It may be that some of the concerns are unfounded and criticisms based on a misunderstanding of the facts. In that case, the club should enlighten us. CD says "all others can do is sit behind a keyboard, criticize and do feck all but leave those who are trying with a feeling of "why bother?". Those of us who sit behind a keyboard are not doing "feck all", we are offering opinions and making our views known. Those who sit behind a keyboard are also, by and large, fans who give concrete support to the club by paying week in and week out for a product which, quite frankly, is somewhat overpriced for the quality provided at the moment. Far better to do that than keep our opinions to ourselves and simply stop watching the team. And "why bother?" Because it is clear that those who are expressing concerns (or making criticisms if you prefer) are doing so becaue they care about the club and demonstrating that they do by taking the time to get behind a keyboard and tell you. Also, as far as paid staff are concerned, I expect them to "bother" because we , the paying public, pay their wages.

That to me sounds like Butcher wanted him gone. It certainly does. Of course there comes a time when people have to move on, but if the manager believes that a player has reached that stage he should release the player and acknowledge the contribution the player has made to the club. This is particulary true in Roscoe's case because nobody has ever made a greater contribution to this club. To force the player to leave by offering a derisory deal and then telling him by text rather than a face to face meeting that there would be no better deal is both cowardly and shameful. He has chosen this route because he did not want the same hue and cry that releasing Munro created. His inability to man manage is demonstrated by yet another major misjudgement both of his assessment of a player and how to deal with the situation.

[trying desperately to find a positive....] At least that's a phrase we will never hear again at ICT!

So the lack of money available in Scottish Football and the inability of the club to offer salaries that players expect is all the fault of TB. Seems there is a hardcore TB witch hunt on here with certain fans - its all getting very boring and predictable that every thread has the same people posting their anti TB comments. Sure there have been managerial mistakes with certain players coming in, but others have been a success. Promotion, SPL survival, long inbeaten runs - I count that as not doing too bad. Ok we had a poor season this year and some of the football wanst great but most importantly we are still SPL so lets support the club and build from here for the future both finacially and on the field!!

That is another positive at Perth. There is a business club affiliated to the football club. They are a group of local business people who do what they can within their business's and social circles to help the club both financially and by providing services. As CD says though the St Johnstone infrastructure is very different to ours. The facilities are far superior to what we have and are used on a daily basis.If only I could get that Euromillions jackpot this week.

That is actually quite "deep" and admirable. It has actually struck a chord with me. Thank you very much young Luke. I have just remembered thinking like that many moons ago.

with st johnstones attendences, im shocked at the amount of players they are bringing in. i think there could be trouble brewing for them. as long as we stay up we should be able to keep our books balanced. some added interest with the derbies, we could do ok next year in terms of cash. but aslong as we arnt in unpayable debt im happy. if that means we cant buy players or compete with other clubs with wage demand etc i dont care, id rather have a club to support in 20 years time what ever league that may be in, than a successful one now.

Indeed, but I can't say I have faith in Butcher to find the players necessary to replace those he punted or ones good enough to make a team even to the standard of last seasons.

Just a quick reminder that if you cant afford to pay for a season ticket in one go, then paying by installments is an option, with the early bird discount taken off the full cost, I believe it only works out at a couple of pounds more than the cost of the full price season ticket over the whole year. Which of course is a saving as opposed to paying at the gate for home matches. This also guarantees you getting a seat for the Historical very first SPL Highland Derby

Where are the fans when the club needs them? Reduced attendances, reduced ticket sales, reduced income from commercial! The reality is that this is happening to all clubs. The team which finished third and are in europe have a £200k reduction in their wage budget ('punishment' for failing to sell a player for reasonable return)! The reality is that the investment has more to do with dealing with last season's losses than this coming season's incoming players.

Thank you very much for the moderating protection. It would appear that some individuals feel that they are above reproach. I apologise to the club shop if my post has upset anybody or caused any negative reaction. It was evidently posted in pure innocence and, at any other time, would have clearly been the most appropriate time to proffer a Bank Holiday weekend offer. I may well have a "sick" sense of humour but I still chuckle at the timing and hat may have well been fate !! Given the "atmosphere" at the moment it is not surprising that the "friction" levels have increased and I can appreciate that there is a number of loyal, dilligent employees who are trying to keep the ship afloat in the stormy waters.

Yeah, this was my understanding. Money was for keeping things ticking over (i.e. general operating costs) for another season rather than a 'war chest'.

OK folks, less of the personal insults and get back to discussing season tickets. I would have imagined that ICTshop posted that of their own bat without any official directive from the club. I may be wrong, but the person that would have done this is only trying to help and not trying to annoy people and guessing that Ross Tokely would go to the press. In reality, anything that we can do to sell tickets has to be good for everyone, no matter how or when it is publicised. I have not got mine yet, basically because I need to earn some money first. Times are hard for everyone, but if I can afford it then I will, no matter what team is selected or who we do or don't sign.

I have never been so angry and truely wish that I hadn't renewed my season tickets. Butcher will ruin our club whilst Bennet and the Chairman (who is he?) stand by. We need a high profile Chairman who can take overall charge of the club. In the past we have had McGillivary, Sutherland and Savage to name a few all very highly thought of and driven men. Ross should have been offered a place for life with our club. Gutted angry and fearfull that we will be relegated next season.

Over the years since the North Stand was constructed in December/January 2004/5 there have been some whispers about a name change to the stand. Such like, The Northbank, The Bridge End and even one bawbag suggested the Caley Kop I have always thought it the greatest privilege for an ex player, manager or Chairman to have their name Christened on one of the home stands. Tonight we have heard the solemn news that THEE greatest player and legend to have played for the Red and Blue of ICTFC has decided to leave. However i just find it totally unfathomable to think that Rossco will have nothing left to do with us, for we all know Ross Tokely is ICT and ICT is Ross tokely. So in this case, I would like to propose renaming the North Stand to the Ross Tokely Stand! Who's with me? :biggrin:

Told us what Renegade?.. That because Tokes has a "wonder" about something, the same as other forum folk that it then ABSOLUTLY MUST be true? Still no truth or concrete fact to anything, so come off your "high horse" and sit with the rest of us, you told us nothing.

If there was ever a post highlighting the lack of season tickets purchased to date this is it When the club shop resorts to pleading requests it's a fair indication that things aren't too rosey in the garden Dougal I take it you've got your season ticket to support the cause Dougal... oh wait you're saving your money to watch County, I forgot.

The board let him?? The board are terrified of him. He runs the ship, so yes he carries the can for mistakes.

In terms of players coming and going, Butcher has to take the blame for some individual cases. But Butcher has to report to someone. I thought it was Grassa but obviously not. The board have let certain things happen and they are to blame as well. Vigurs, Munro, Duncan, Tokely. Four players that should have still been playing with us. Debatable about Duncan due to him going back down to Div 3, but I think he was still worthy. Butchers not to blame for the "state that ICT currently finds itself in". I'm not sure if you mean financially or the team on the park or both. The Manager is responsible for the team, but he seems to have such a free reign that he can do what he wants. He's at fault for ripping the heart and soul out of the team, but the board let him and therefore must take some of the blame.

Returning to the field with a bandage round his head after a head knock at Tynecastle a couple of years ago and a supporter starting the chant "there's only 2 Terry Butchers"! Sadly such "oneness" with the manager seems somewhat distant now.

Yes, he told me about you.

Absolutely gutted to see Roscoe leave. An irreplaceable player in my opinion and however 'massive' this pay cut was there is no doubt that if butcher wanted to, he could have tried to improve his first offer. We all know that though don't we? What an awful way to treat an ICT legend. I know its only the start of June but unless the squad is sorted out fast then this could be the beginning of the end for Terry.

Blasted when they don't try and blasted again when they do....get the feeling that some people are never happier than when they are stirring the shit and looking for an argument. There's people knocking their pan in trying to make things a bit better under extremely difficult circumstances and all others can do is sit behind a keyboard, criticise and do feck all but leave those who are trying with a feeling of "why bother?". Give yourselves a shake, FFS.

I am, like loads of others on here, absolutely gutted that Tokely is gone! Yes legends come and go but this legend I feel still had another season or two in him and more importantly NEEDED A TRUE ICT LEGEND SEND OFF! Not some pre season game. But hey, under the Butcher era, you don't get these kind of things. No-one on here knows exactly the financial status of the club but we can all pretty much say it is poor. But why when Foran gets improved contracts, Hogg gets a new contract despite playing with injury and who says that injury might stay away? Does a legend have to be thrown aside again? Who knows what he was offered but can you at least not agree that FOR ONE MORE YEAR there might have been enough in the budget to give him a wee bit more? For all the loanees that never played but were paid, where has that money gone, or is that what some of the budgets there for. "OK Butcher this year we have set aside another £********* for bringing in p*ss poor loanees". Also what has happened to the 31st of May rallying call? From what I can see only McKay has signed? A strong stand, or a come and get my out of contract players asap call? Absolutely gutted by the loss of Tokely and I once again, blame Butcher squarely for this.

for those that are saying we couldn't afford a new contract for him could we afford one for Hogg while he was injured and hasn't proved himself at the club, admirable to give Hogg a contract while suffering a bad injury but nowhere near as deserving as Tokely

Mmmm. I wonder what the size of cut Foran had to take with his new contract?

Last season butcher replaced Munro with Aldred, Williams and golobart. Now even that was a joke, if he decides to do the same this season and bring in utter junk to replace tokely he needs to go.

Surely if we want things to get better and to be able to sign better players on better deals we all have to do our bit and help the club where we can. The more season tickets sold the more money going into the club. Also gives peeps working through the week the chance to go in and buy their ticket in person. I know the club ain't always perfect but damned if they do and damned if they don't?

Well said. By my reckoning Esson is now the only non-Butcher signing left. Terry is going to have to pull many rabbits out of the hat this summer and going by his past success rate that seems highly unlikely. Obviously the old guard couldn't go on forever but in my opinion the more of them that have left the weaker we've become.

Butcher had better do better next season or he is finished. Granty now Tokely, the heart has been ripped from the club and the fans will not forgive that if he has a another season like last.

It is true that no player can stay in the team forever and ever amen, they will move on, even those that have served the club well over many accumulated years. What gets my back up is the way these legends have been treated. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors with the players but from what I read it becomes clear to me that our club don't seem to care about these guys. A case of 'you've served your purpose now you can piss off'. All this comes across to me as a club that has lost its family feeling, its respect and (probably) its support. Good luck Rossco in whatever you choose to do or in which team you play for (ICT 'B' Team in Dingwall maybe). We, the supporters, appreciate what you have done / achieved for ICT over the years even if the club doesn't.

I agree. I doubt we will ever see his like again. I remember thinking when we first won promotion that he would struggle at the higher level but each time the club took a step forward, Ross rose to the challenge and worked ever harder and harder and strengthened the various aspects of his game. I am really sad to see him leave because over the last few games of the season I think he proved he was still one of the best players at the club and had at least one more year in him as a first choice defender. That is not sentimentality - it's based on watching a real pro go about his craft. His record number of appearences will never be beaten and I very much doubt that any player will ever show the same level of committment and passion for the club. He epitomises everything good about the rise of the club from a new club finding it's first tentative way in the 3rd division to becoming an established SPL team. If we can't name the stand after Ross, we will never be able to name it after any other player.

A Tokley statue right in front of where Butcher parks would be ideal

For a player with such affinity for the club and one who is still a first team regular to turn down a deal shows that it must have been a pretty poor one that he was offered. Butcher's hitlist is now complete, just as I told you that this was what he desired. He'll be the one who can say that Tokely left on his own accord, but we all know the truth is really anything but. Butcher now has a big job on his hands, and if he gets this wrong will be following Tokely out the door in the not too distant future.

This is actually as close to tears as ive ever been over a footballing matter. Ive grown up my whole life watching Rosscoe play and im devastated he wont be there from now on. He was one of the best and truely one of a kind with the service he has given to ICT. The maruading runs down the wing, his rock solid nature, the flashes of silky skills, the strike against Hearts which i will never forget and above all his undying love for the club. We will never see a player like him again. Good luck Rosscoe.

All the best Ross - a true ICT legend. No matter who you play for in the future against us I for one will never boo you.

One of the things that galls me most about this and it was clear it was going to happen is that a legend of his status wasn't even given a proper send off, good luck Ross you deserve better

we were a team.

It's the end of an era if Rossco is off. No affiliation to the past anymore, we are just another team Good luck Ross....fekkin legend.

Pre season is 4 weeks away. Pre season. Not the start of the season. Pre season. Some clubs are only now releasing players. Get a grip, these things take time. We have 4 weeks before they even start running around a field together let alone taking part in any meaningful match. If ICT is all some of you have to moan (constantly in some cases) about then you are indeed very lucky people. Take a break (like the majority of footballers are doing at this time of the year) from worrying about ICT. Never fear, I'm sure they'll give you plenty to worry and complain about when the season is actually underway.

OK thanks, I'll give it a miss then as the OP is just a dig at the clubs lack of signed players rather than a team ready to play. We are no different to other clubs in that respect and pre-season starts in na month does it not?

I think people get pulled in a certain direction including myself with regards to punishing the greedy b#####ds. If it was a club like Kilmarnock, and for instance a company who loans money to Killy and carries their dept suddenly goes bust and the receivers want the dept called in then Killy may be no more.Just only a possible example. But this hasn't happened to Kilmarnock, its happened to a big greedy club, a club that will beat most of the clubs it plays due to its spending power, a club that will steal your best players just to have them sitting on a bench, a club that will go bust and still have the money to fly from Glasgow to Inverness and stay in a 4* hotel but cant afford to hand over the money for tickets it sold to their own fans to watch an away game. a club that will overspend with the hope of getting a greater return from the cups it competes in. A club that steals your locals so they can call themselves Rangers fans just so they can cling on to a bit of success and rejoice if their adopted Glasgow club beats the team of their place of birth. A club that refuses to share more of the SPL kitty to the rest, just to weaken the rest of Scottish football. If it was a small club that was in difficulty I think I would be compassionate to them but its happened to a club that takes,takes then takes some more. What ever sanctions are put in place all they have to do is spend more cash and get a good lawyer to overthrow any handicaps put in front of them, just like the bans handed out to Lennon. I say take what you can get from them.

The existing Club have received punishment...opinion will differ on whether that is seen as just or not. I also agree that any new company should not be subjected to punishment....but they should also not be allowed automatic entry to the SPL. If they want to be treated as a continuation of the existing club and argue their right to a place in the SPL, then they must accept ALL that comes with arguing that case. This idea of taking "all that's good" and just casting off the bad stuff and stuff they don't like is ludicrous. Life does not, and should not, work like that. Where's the moral compass in all this? Has society become totally bereft of the concepts of accountability? If "Rangers" want to walk away from all the bad crap then they have to walk away from everything and that includes a league membership and position which was gained by foul means. If they don't, then they have to accept accountability and punishment for what has happened. In no other business would a case of "Business not liable for the actions of it's owners/directors" be admissible, let alone argued. I honestly find it totally incredible that the SFA and/or SPL (and its member clubs) are even giving the slightest consideration to allowing a NewCo (New Club) direct entry to the countries top league. Put a cross on the calender because this could be the event that officially marks the moment the world went mad.

Get them back befind the kitchen sink.