Butcher must Go!

[Guest]

Fans that act the same a TB get shuned for being naughty not good fans... but its ok for TB so openly shun his players and get Animated... i wonder if MM wrustles sweetys to loud....

Exactly ..................... well said.

[PullMyFinger]

Butcher is a stopgap, his contract should't be renewed. He saw us as a road back to full time management and the board saw him as a "name" to appease the fans, how's that working out for them? SPL to SFL mediocrity in a matter of weeks. No new contract until he demonstrates a degree of consistency and only then after looking at all the other options available to us.

You fail to mention that we were spiraling to SFL mediocrity before Butcher came along, he did almost turned it round with players he didnt know (or sign in the window).

However as we have seen Butchers signings have been dropped like flies and the old players gradually being re-introduced, i think we are looking at a more positive side now and if he signs a decent defender in January to stop the leaks, we could have a decent run in to the end of the season.

Yes we were spiralling and Terry very nearly turned things around, no wait he did turn things around then bottled it at the end. He had a much stronger squad to choose from than we have now. Agreed, it is heartening to see the return of the experienced, established ICT players.

[tm4tj]

He had a stronger squad to choose from playing in a stronger league. I personally don't think it is correct to be calling for Butcher to go just now regardless of the fact that we can or can't release him. I doubt if many managers would fare much better with the budget restrictions in place. We are in the first division and we will just have to learn to deal with it.

Bottling it at the end.............these are tough games anytime, never mind when points become so crucial. Away to Well, Away to Killie and the decider to Falkirk. No freebie points there.

[PullMyFinger]

Tactical superiority is what relegated us. TB hasn't really demonstrated any significant degree of ability when it comes to tactics.

[Dmacca]

Bottling it at the end.............these are tough games anytime, never mind when points become so crucial. Away to Well, Away to Killie and the decider to Falkirk. No freebie points there.

My worry with Butcher would be. Both ICT & Falkirk were in a dire position at the time of the last game of last season, if I remember rightly we required no better than a draw to save ourselves and put them down, you would presume that both squads were on a par with each other going by their league positions at this time, this leaves the motivational skills of the two managers and coaching staff, quite clearly we came out second best on that front!! as we did in the cup and league fixtures against Falkirk in March 2009.

Thats a worry, but does it warrant replacing the management?

Were the squad at the time capable of being motivated/want to be motivated?

[PullMyFinger]

Everyone is motivated by something Dmacca, everyone.

[tm4tj]

Playing with 10 men was outwith the managers control. You could argue that Rossco should have been right back, then he would not have been in that situation. But because players move around and interchange, there is no way of telling if he would have been there or not anyway. Falkirk are a battle hardened squad, with an active manager. Our squad of, by that time, a squad of mercenaries thrown together by default. I don't blame Butcher for our demise, that is further up the tree and deeper rooted than him. All managers make tactical decisions which in hindsight don't always work out. If that were not the case, then every team would win every game based on equality within the squads. No? Put hindsight on the other foot. We don't complain when we trounce Morton and Ayr, where does hindsight go then, or is it simply called foresight?

Should we even be discussing this? I think it is an insult to Butcher. It would not have mattered who we had as manager, some posters will never be happy and knee jerk reactions will always be prevalent. He needs some slack until the end of the season, good bad or indifferent. I am prepared to wait a little.

[PullMyFinger]

It is not an insult to Butcher, though he is free to take it whichever way he wishes.

If we can't discuss it here then where? It's that attitude that has alienated countless posters.

[tm4tj]

It's certainly the attitude of some posters that has alienated others.

By all means discuss it, nobody has said not to discuss it. What I referred to is that the question on the topic is an insult...

Butcher must go.............why?, because we are not top of the first division, because County just beat us again, because he has multiple jobs.

We have no divine right to win every game, not even against County.

[PullMyFinger]

It's certainly the attitude of some posters that has alienated others.

By all means discuss it, nobody has said not to discuss it. What I referred to is that the question on the topic is an insult...

Butcher must go.............why?, because we are not top of the first division, because County just beat us again, because he has multiple jobs.

We have no divine right to win every game, not even against County.

No-one has said we have a divine right to win every game, nor to win the league. What we would expect is to be competing at least near the top and not sitting in the bottom half of the table. The team above us were competing in Division two last season. We've come a long way, right enuff.

[Johnboy]

Everyone is motivated by something Dmacca, everyone.

Pull your own finger...

[tm4tj]

Whatever, the season is not finished yet, some teams were above us alphabetically before the season started. Is this the same team we beat recently?

Too many people are too quick to point the finger, surely he can only be judged if he fails at the end of this season. At the moment we can still mathematically win the league...........don't laugh, it is still possible, maybe highly unlikely, but still possible, and until the time comes that we can not win the league then he and the team will get my backing.

I don't like not being at the top, but such is life.

[PullMyFinger]

Whatever, the season is not finished yet, some teams were above us alphabetically before the season started. Is this the same team we beat recently?

Too many people are too quick to point the finger, surely he can only be judged if he fails at the end of this season. At the moment we can still mathematically win the league...........don't laugh, it is still possible, maybe highly unlikely, but still possible, and until the time comes that we can not win the league then he and the team will get my backing.

I don't like not being at the top, but such is life.

Nail hit on the head there Mannie, what is success and what is failure? We as fans have varied expectations but it's what the clubs expectations are that matters and what Butcher himself has been tasked with.

[starchief]

I certainly don't blame Butcher for getting us relegated. He almost saved us when it looked a certainty. Tokely had been playing very well at centre-back (see the match reviews if your memory is faulty), so, not surprisingly stayed there. Does anyone know whether Mihadjuks, like Bulvitis, was more comfortable at right-back but could play centre if required? All most of us know is where he played in a few games for ICT - not necessarily where his best position was.

Ross being sent off is just one of those things that makes football what it is. If we'd brought in a recently returned Mihadjuks for an in-form Tokely, would that have been better or worse? Just a matter of opinion.

As for being motivated, we had a terrific run of results but were in such a dire position when Butcher took us over, we were so up against it, it would have been a minor miracle had we survived.