Butcher - Stay or Go.

[DornochCaley]

Is this thread not fairly pointless now they have signed?

Personally, i feel they may stay

[Renegade]

The difference is though is Butcher (at the time commendably) had ICT essentially safe. His bizarre antics with a couple of games to go blew it.

bulls*** !!! Relegation was the result of a season-long malaise not one game. If we had had a different outcome in ANY of the 28 games we did NOT win (5 draws, 5 losses for Butcher, 2 draws, 15 losses for CB, + 1 loss for the Doc/Garden as caretakers) we would have stayed up. If we had scored a single goal more against St Mirren we would have stayed up. If St Mirren had conceded 2 more goals against ANY team(s) over the course of the entire season, we would have stayed up.

I never once said he was the ultimate cause, Brew and the Board were the biggest culprits, but Butcher IMO had a small part to play.

I will concede that the manager did make a couple of bizarre selections and ultimately yes they backfired on him, but he did not go out to lose those games

Oh come on, no ones saying that. Now your trying to put me a conspiracy theorist bracket and saying he wanted ICT relegated, come on.

and come the end of the season a league record of W5,D5,L5,F15,A15.Pts=20 was far superior to his predecessor who had W5,D2,L15,F20,A38.Pts=17.

Absolutely.

Your logic is as flawed as those who blame Ross Tokely for our SPL status because he got sent off.

I personally do not blame Tokely for ICT being relegated. I blame Butcher for putting him there for that game. Now whilst it is true that Tokely had put in some admiral performances a number of games before in that position (and even in the final game before he was sent off), Pavels Mihadjuks should most definitely not have been played out of position, even more so when Tokely (a natural right back) was in the starting line-up. Had David Proctor been played at right back then keeping Tokely there would have been understandable, but that was not the game to start messing around and puting people in places they had never been.

And then of course there's the Esson incident. Every man and his dog could see he was the better keeper, but after their little incident on the training ground, Butcher's ego came first and Fraser (who, once he was put in, ICT began leaking goals again) was given the run of games. That was nonsense and these are the things Butcher has to take the blame for.

[CaleyD]

Just so you know, Renegade. Rossco was playing as a central midfielder before Pele got his hands on him so not exactly a natural right back.

[Renegade]

Indeed I do know that, but he's played there for so long and so continually that it essentially now is his "natural position".

Edited March 2, 2010 by Renegade

[Johnboy]

Indeed I do know that, but he's played there for so long and so continually that it essentially now is his "natural position".

I heard he was more into doggy style....

[Alex MacLeod]

Indeed I do know that, but he's played there for so long and so continually that it essentially now is his "natural position".

I heard he was more into doggy style....

There's always someone who'll bring down the tone of a good thread.