I Read The Koran Every Day...

[Canada Bob]

The most remarkable thing about reading the Koran - in so far as it can be truly translated from the original Arabic - is to understand how progressive it is. I speak with great diffidence and humility as a member of another faith. I am not qualified to make any judgements.

But as an outsider, the Koran strikes me as a reforming book, trying to return Judaism and Christianity to their origins, rather as reformers attempted with the Christian Church centuries later. It is inclusive. It extols science and knowledge and abhors superstition. It is practical and way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance.

Under its guidance, the spread of Islam and its dominance over previously Christian or pagan lands was breathtaking. Over centuries it founded an Empire, leading the world in discovery, art and culture. The standard bearers of tolerance in the early Middle Ages were far more likely to be found in Muslim lands than in Christian ..."

I hope that none of you were thinking the above were my words, but could you guess who came out with such crap ?

I'll give you a clue, although a Protestant when he was the PM, as soon as the job went so did his association.

He then became a Catholic and within weeks, had met the Pope and within days was assimilated into Opus Dei.

Around and abouts the same time, as a Middle East Envoy, and soon after started to spout shyte like this.

All things to all men hey, I guess if it helps him dodge a bullet it will serve his purpose...

What's the difference between a cactus plant and the Houses of Parliament ?

On a cactus plant the pricks are on the outside...

Edited April 11, 2009 by Canada Bob

[DAM]

The most remarkable thing about reading the Koran - in so far as it can be truly translated from the original Arabic - is to understand how progressive it is. I speak with great diffidence and humility as a member of another faith. I am not qualified to make any judgements.

But as an outsider, the Koran strikes me as a reforming book, trying to return Judaism and Christianity to their origins, rather as reformers attempted with the Christian Church centuries later. It is inclusive. It extols science and knowledge and abhors superstition. It is practical and way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance.

Under its guidance, the spread of Islam and its dominance over previously Christian or pagan lands was breathtaking. Over centuries it founded an Empire, leading the world in discovery, art and culture. The standard bearers of tolerance in the early Middle Ages were far more likely to be found in Muslim lands than in Christian ..."

I hope that none of you were thinking the above were my words, but could you guess who came out with such crap ?

I'll give you a clue, although a Protestant when he was the PM, as soon as the job went so did his association.

He then became a Catholic and within weeks, had met the Pope and within days was assimilated into Opus Dei.

Around and abouts the same time, as a Middle East Envoy, and soon after started to spout shyte like this.

All things to all men hey, I guess if it helps him dodge a bullet it will serve his purpose...

What's the difference between a cactus plant and the Houses of Parliament ?

On a cactus plant the pricks are on the outside...

Nice one Bob! you and I are always singing from the same hymn book. I enjoy your posts immensely.

[Canada Bob]

Nice one Bob! you and I are always singing from the same hymn book. I enjoy your posts immensely.

Thanks DAM...

Just back from Rochdale's trouncing of Port Vale, we were "all or 'em" the score sheet might say 1-0 but the woodwork took a battering, as did the Tote laying 4/6 to all that I could get on Rochdale. Hills generous as ever had Rochdale @ 1/2.

My mate was right about Vale being bothered with the flu, a couple of them were pouring in sweat within 15 minutes, and they'd seen nowt of the ball, they were taken off later...

I'll be doing the rounds on Sunday cashing in me Tote coupons, they wouldn't lay more than 150 quid per bet, but soon as I put that bet on, they'd then lay it again to the same money, but only 2 bets like that per shop, how odd is that, as in the end I got all that I wanted on, but had to go from one shop to another.

Nice little ground Rochdale, never been there before, but... no ale at all on the ground, and if you nip out at h/t to the pub right next door {15 yards away}, they want you to pay again to get back in FFS, so I had to spit feathers 'till the end of the match, no way was I paying 26/- for a small coke, cheeky b*stards...

Edited April 11, 2009 by Canada Bob

[PullMyFinger]

Sorry Bob, I can't help myself. The main body of Blairs speech has a ring of truth about it and Islam was ousted from those countries during the crusades and Spanish Inquisition. Historically Islam has been far more tolerant of other beliefs than us Christians. I found myself disappointed at your attitude to this and I can only hope that for your sake you don't share your views of other beliefs in public as they could get you into bother.

[caley100]

Might have known.....

[Johnboy]

Blair has the morals of a polecat. The time for reflecting on the awful consequences of war is BEFORE you start one, not after.

If he had spent some time searching for his soul before agreeing to war crimes on a massive scale he might not need divine intervention now.

I don't have much time for Churches generally, but I'll say this much for the RCs, if they will take Blair, they'll take anyone.

[PullMyFinger]

Might have known.....

Mightn't care..... :thumb04:

[dead_ball_specialist]

Tony Blair is basically a world class lawyer. He could make an eloquent argument for anything and make himself appear to passionately believe it.

[Scarlet Pimple]

My assessment of Blair , based on facts, is that he was an unmitigated hypocrite who blatantly feathered his own nest from the public purse of Britain whilst determinedly refusing to acknowledge the right of expat pensioners who dared to live in former Commonwealth countries to the same annual uprating of their pension as all other British pensioners, whether expats living in Israel or Germany, or in the U.S. for that matter.

The net result of this unfair policy of course is that such expats living ,for example, in Canada will receive the same pension amount at the date of their death as they recieved in the first month of their receiving the DSS pension , despite having paid the same rates of premium into the scheme as any other British person. Meaning a slow decline into poverty and if it was not for the Canadian Government having the compassion to supplement their pensions from the U.K. they would ultimately be destitute instead of simply just very poor. And bear in mind that although most of them have now died out this group includes veterans who fought in both past world wars all to protect Great Britain and the lives and way of life of all who followed them.

Oh , and just before we leave this, guess who shared the Chambers in the Law Courts in London prior to that self same judge finding in favour of the British Government when the Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners sued them for refusing to allow parity of income ? Well, no less than Blair's wife, Cheri. !!!!!

But then again they are just politicians whose main aim in life is always the question of getting votes, not the actual welfare of those they "govern"......

[starchief]

Sorry Bob, I can't help myself. The main body of Blairs speech has a ring of truth about it and Islam was ousted from those countries during the crusades and Spanish Inquisition. Historically Islam has been far more tolerant of other beliefs than us Christians. I found myself disappointed at your attitude to this and I can only hope that for your sake you don't share your views of other beliefs in public as they could get you into bother.

Bob can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was denouncing Blair rather than Islam.

As for me, I'm surprised at how utterly mad Blair is. I had no idea he was quite so insane when he was in power but he obviously believes he's some sort of messiah figure. Just why he thinks that his foundation is the ideal place to bring faiths together or that someone that failed to check Bush in his giveaway of Palestinian lands (remember the 'situation on the ground' speech?) or the utter destruction of mainly innocents (and the UN - how did Israel get away with bombing that??) in South Lebanon is the right man to be a Middle East envoy is beyond me. Even before the Iraq war, he seemed to believe that he was the one that was going to unite Europe and the US. I seriously think he's lost the plot.

As for the whole Islam thing, most Muslim countries are still developing. They tended to lead the world in the Dark->Middle Ages in science and reason (and compassion - no compulsion to switch religions in a real Muslim state*) but swings-and-roundabouts I guess. They stayed still, the West moved on in the Industrial and Democratic revolutions. But what happened when Europe was at the level of many Muslim states? Witch trials, burnings, constant wars. Don't wish to sound like a geek but the Star Trek Prime Directive of non-interference to let a culture develop naturally sounds a good idea. But to do that, a country would have to give up all influence.

* and the last thing the extremists, such as the Taleban are, are real Muslims. In fact, Egypt sent over their most eminent scholars before the whole al Quaeda thing surfaced to instruct the Taleban. They ended up having to flee as they were denounced as heretics! Have a look at what the Koran says about covering women. Nothing to do with hiding everything, just covering breasts. The burkha etc developed from living in the desert. Something you can see from the dress of men in the Gulf states.

[Canada Bob]

Sorry Bob, I can't help myself. The main body of Blairs speech has a ring of truth about it and Islam was ousted from those countries during the crusades and Spanish Inquisition. Historically Islam has been far more tolerant of other beliefs than us Christians. I found myself disappointed at your attitude to this and I can only hope that for your sake you don't share your views of other beliefs in public as they could get you into bother.

The thing I was attempting to show wasn't my intolerance to Islam or anyone else's religion, it was that Blair will say anything to anyman to get where he wants to be. I doubt he would have had the balls present the same opinions to the country when he was seeking votes in Sedgefield.

As for him "reading the Koran every day" well, I'd take bets he reads the Telegrapgh more than he reads the Koran, but knowing won't curry him any favours he makes no mention of it.

As for his comments, I can't swallow them, in fact I find them objectional to my race, culture and creed, but that don't mean that I would condem Muslems, their religion or their necks to oblivion for what they chose to believe. In my book folks have a right to freely follow what they believe in, as long as they afford the same rights to those who don't see the world as they see it.

Whatever Islam was in the past is in the past, try asking for a church to be built in Saudi or Pakistan etc, then from the comforts of one of their Lunatic asylums you'd be able to fill in a form requesting Government funding for it.

The radicals holding the reins of Islam now are a threat to almost everyone on the planet, I don't like what I see, but I have a what is now a strained tolerance towards it.

I understand what you say that in the UK opinions that run against what the Government et-al would have me speak or think "could get me into trouble" yet that threat won't bend me to their mold.

Odd how the bridle is fashioned for the mouths of the White Anglo Saxons though aint it, if they speak up they are racists, if Muslems jeer our soldeirs coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan and "condem them to hell" they are simply expressing the tenants of their faith, FFS...

Might be worth reminding ourselves that "in our 21st world" we can freely voice our opinions in public, or in here, that's a good thing, we might at worst hiss each other off, but more often that not we listen to what other folks have to say and may gain some insight from am opposing view, at least I know I have. Yet we have been so used to this freedom that we hardly notice that we have it.

The last thing we want is to lose what we have taken for granted, it's taken hunderds of years and millions of lives for us to get where we are {in the Western World}, we have a responsibility to defend our right to free speech, as long as what we say isn't simply intended to infuriate or provoke hatred.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Canada Bob

[PullMyFinger]

I agree with most of what you say but I don't think any of our popular religions have any moral high ground at all.

[Canada Bob]

I agree with most of what you say but I don't think any of our popular religions have any moral high ground at all.

One of the things I don't like about Islam is, they lay claim to just about everything that anyone born into their ranks ever came up with, as though they only figured it out, or discovered whatever, because they were Muslems, and from that leap on to "prove" it's them that are on the right track, and the rest of us are heading to Hell.

I don't see the same thing happening in other religions, Jews don't attempt to discredit the beliefs of everyone else because Einstein was a Jew, nor do Hindu's debase other religions because Gandhi et-al arose from their ranks.

It's a bit like those weary arguements that "the Chinese invented everything" or "what we owe to the Arabs", and so on, or how every famous bloke that you ever respected "was actually homosexual", FFS. Before we know it our minds are full of this shyte, we finish up where we can't discern truth from propaganda...

Fair enough we all like to promote our cause, or to persuade others towards our view of the world, but when it comes to having your cultural roots, religious beliefs, societal standards or your heed cut off by those who wish to usurp or overwhelm us it's time to take a closer look how they abuse our tolerance, and what their agenda for us really is.

Islam may at one time have been "tolerant of other religions" but my guess is that in those times they had to be, as they once were a tiny minority, but like many other groups once they get their feet under the table their attitudes change, and not for the best towards those who don't fall into their ranks...

Fact is, I don't want to be a Muslem, I don't want my county to become Muslem, nor do I want to see Europe fall under the influence of Islam. When they afford us the same rights and priviledges in Islamic countries that we afford them in ours I will have less concerns than I have now.

As for the now, as much as Muslems want to maintain their cultural and religious values, I also want to maintain mine...

Edited April 13, 2009 by Canada Bob