Dunfermline Players not paid

[+DoofersDad]

New on the BBC website. Knock on effect of the Rangers debt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/17210537

[PaderbornCaley]

Dunfermline had the bonus of the Sky TV money from the Caley Thistle game. It looks like even without the Rangers money they are struggling. They would not have forecasted the Sky money for the cup game at the start of the season. Bad time times for the Pars.

[+DoofersDad]

It's not the win bonuses that's got them into difficulty, that's for sure. It's a sign of the times and a lot of clubs are going to be struggling in the next year or two. Teams will not have the money to attract and hold on to half decent players, standards will drop, crowds will drop, finances will get even worse and so the downward spiral continues.

[PaderbornCaley]

I think that it is going to come to light that Dunfermline are the other mystery Scottish club that have not paid PAYE. They are cost cutting left right and centre at the moment and I think they know that very soon HMRC will come knocking.

Watch this space.......

Edited February 29, 2012 by CapitalCaley

[PaderbornCaley]

Wow! It would appear that Dunfermline WANT to get rellegated. From a club statement:

"For example the switch of our first home game to a Monday evening reduced our attendance and effectively cost some £30,000. Similarly the 2 early kick offs for the televised games damaged the attendances and also the commercial income. Costs have also been hit by the increased requirements of the SPL. For example the Under 19 squad which is a mandatory requirement, will cost DAFC over £60,000 this year. Increasing electricity costs for the stadium come in at over £6,000 per month, and Police and stewarding costs will be over £100,000 this season.""

[CaleyD]

I think that it is going to come to light that Dunfermline are the other mystery Scottish club that have not paid PAYE. They are cost cutting left right and centre at the moment and I think they know that very soon HMRC will come knocking.

Watch this space.......

They admitted already (2 weeks ago) that they owed money to the Tax Man (around £45,000), so I don't think it will come as that big a revelation!!!

[old caley girl]

How long is it gonna be till those running scottish football wake up and smell the coffee ie start to change things as at the moment our game is dying?

[+DoofersDad]

How long is it gonna be till those running scottish football wake up and smell the coffee ie start to change things as at the moment our game is dying?

To be fair, I don't think there is a lot they can realistically do. It's not their fault the game in Scotland is going down the tubes. The problem lies with the way the world-wide game is marketed with the game increasingly structured and financed to cater to a global TV audience. The masses watch football from their arm chairs and not the terraces and they want to watch the big name players rather than their home town team.

It becomes a self perpetuating circus. They have changed the big european club competitions from straightforward knock-out competitions to mini leagues and a shorter knock out stage in order to ensure the best chance and the most games for the biggest teams. Should one of them slip up against a less glamorous side that happens to have gate crashed the party the league gives them a second chance to let the big boys win. Worse still, several teams that then fail to progress in the champions league are given places in the Europa league. The 2 Manchester sides for instance, fail miserably in the champions league and are now earning further mega millions in the Europa league as a reward for their failure.

To play the number of games these top clubs play, they have to have big squads of top players and television and sponsorship money means they can pay these players stupid sums of money. Some of these players hardly ever play but are there when needed. Unless a club receives massive investment there is no way teams can ever aspire to reach the top - the gap is too wide and the promising players and managers are plucked away with offers they can't refuse. A few years ago a talented manager at an average club could bring together talented players, keep then together for a few years develop a brilliant team and acheive great things - Brian Clough at Nottingham Forrest being number 1 in my list on that score. The dream that your club might just do that sort of thing is part of what draws people to support their local clubs, but as the market and financing of football has changed, that sort of team progression no longer happens. Get a couple of years out of a good player and they are off where the grass is greener.

Clubs like us and the Pars get squeezed. We have to pay players more than we can really afford in order to keep the standard to a level the fans want to see. But we also need to keep ticket prices at a level which allows us to pay the wages. The problem is that increasingly the fans are voting with their feet and saying the ticket price is too much for the standard of football on offer. It's a grim thought, but from a business angle one might now consider that winning the league title is simply an unattainble goal. You have to buy success these days because market forces (and the Bosman ruling) break up teams that could develop together and progress to success.

There has never been more money in the game, but it's all in the wrong hands. A cap on player wages and agreements that a much larger proportion of the television monies is shared throughout the game is required. I can't see that happening and I can't see that the SFA can do much about it either.

[Sorted]

Players are the principle culprits. Greed has gone beyond belief and the money within the game now remains within control of a chosen few.

When you here stories about how much the European Cup finalists of the 60s, 70s and 80s were earning in comparison to the average person it shows you clearly just how obscene our game has become nowadays. Run of the mill footballers who will achieve little in the game can easily earn in excess of £500 kpa.

Could only stop when we stop going and, more importantly, stop buying TV packages and merchandising. That won't happen.

Could only stop when the players say they are willing to, collectively, cap their earnings in return for investment in grass roots football. That won't happen.

Will only stop when the elite have total domination, the others run on a hobby basis and it becomes the pastime of the chosen few. This is happening now.

Jumpers for goalposts anyone?

[lukemackay]

Sounds to me like their passing the buck into rangers easy target just now

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

More stories emerging - both Port Vale and Portsmouth struggling to see out the season with players at Pompey not paid since December. I am sure there will be a few more to follow as more IR PAYE targets surface....

[Alex MacLeod]

Sorted, players are not the culprits. The clubs are. A player of the standard required by a club finds a bidding war going on. He can choose where to go and can ask a high recompence for his services but the fact is the clubs agree to that very price. In other words they get their man at any cost. The clubs are willing to pay so the players get big deals.

This is a true story......Gary Caldwell was very happy at Celtic. Doing well. Club captain. He was on £8000 a week. Half a dozen players at that club were brought in on wages above £20,000 a week. Gary's contract came up for renewal and he wanted to stay at Celtic. He believed that, being club captain he should be a bit closer to other players but he didnt ask for anything near to the others. The fact is that Celtic thought they could extend his contract cheaply so they could sell him on to Middlesborough for a big amount. Instead Gary said stuff you and went to Wigan. Celtic were happy to pay high wages to foriegn bench warmers yet at the same time thought they could profiteer from a home grown and it all backfired on them.

[+DoofersDad]

Money corrupts. Caldwell was still earning big money. £8,000 a week on a 3 year contract and he's earned more than many hard working men and women earn in a lifetime - and he's doing what he loves. My heart bleeds for the poor exploited soul. He chose to leave to earn even more money somewhere else. I'm not saying I blame him if it was offered on a plate to him elsewhere, but it was his choice and he chose the money.

[Sorted]

Sorted, players are not the culprits. The clubs are. A player of the standard required by a club finds a bidding war going on. He can choose where to go and can ask a high recompence for his services but the fact is the clubs agree to that very price. In other words they get their man at any cost. The clubs are willing to pay so the players get big deals.

This is a true story......Gary Caldwell was very happy at Celtic. Doing well. Club captain. He was on £8000 a week. Half a dozen players at that club were brought in on wages above £20,000 a week. Gary's contract came up for renewal and he wanted to stay at Celtic. He believed that, being club captain he should be a bit closer to other players but he didnt ask for anything near to the others. The fact is that Celtic thought they could extend his contract cheaply so they could sell him on to Middlesborough for a big amount. Instead Gary said stuff you and went to Wigan. Celtic were happy to pay high wages to foriegn bench warmers yet at the same time thought they could profiteer from a home grown and it all backfired on them.

Your story regarding Caldwell is typical of the attempts to justify mediocrity and a clear example of why players are the problem not the solution.

Caldwell could quite easily have come out and said: 'Despite the fact that others in the club are being paid a ridiculous amount of money that is ludicrous, I am more than happy to continue my career on a mere £400k plus bonuses. Perhaps others within the game may chose to follow my example.' He didn't. He, like the rest of them, demanded obscene money and justified (as you are doing) by saying it is the same as everyone else.

Until a player of intelligence and stature has the gumption to come out make a stance our game will continue in the same manner. Sad.

Equally, as long as intelligent supporters like you seek excuses for players behaviour we are doomed.

There was (and rightly so) a public clamour for bankers to be denied bonuses which led to Stephen Hester refusing in excess of a £1m. I see little difference in the behaviour of fat cat bankers and fat cat footballers. In the vast majority of cases they are delivering a sub standard product and lining their own pockets at the expense of the masses. Equally, in both cases, they have apologists. I am not one.

What your post also highlights is how incorrect I was in stating that average players can earn in excess of £500 kpa. Caldwell earned in excess of £1 million if you are correct!

Edited March 2, 2012 by Sorted

[CaleyD]

What he said