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Derek Bateman tells it like it is http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/05/01/another-country/

 

I quote the last paragraph of his article........and invite DD and Charles et al to defend the attitude of the UK political parties.and offer their ideas on where the Union goes from here.

 

The underlying message of all this to me as a Scottish Nationalist is that my country isn’t wanted. Even when half the population are backing the SNP, we are treated as pariahs. No party will touch us. We are toxic in Westminster. Every one of the major Unionist groupings has told us that a constitutional party of social democrats in Scotland – one that is so respectable that the Prime Minister signs the Edinburgh Agreement with them – doesn’t belong in the power structures of Britain. And you can see where I am going…the deeper realisation is that the day of independence draws ever nearer as layer after layer of British state apparatus rejects us and declares us outsiders not worthy of influence in government. We are truly another country and the more SNP people we elect, the more scared and irrational they get. At the very time the SNP has accepted referendum defeat and offers to help a Unionist party, they spit on us. Scots are finally getting the message.

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Again the reports are inaccurate. Two well known individuals who have made a habit of following Jim Murphy and rudely and very vocally disrupting his meetings who were until yesterday among the 114,00

Achtung! I actually find it hilarious listening to to the British nationalists continually bleating about the referendum, which they won FFS, and how it's all the SNP are interested in. It goes s

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Never mind folks. Another five years of austerity rammed down our throats. Another five years of foodbanks. Of poverty. Perhaps they'll even start pinching pennies from Charlies pension. Labour made it very clear on QT that they wont be in government so all thats left is Dave to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. If ever there was a setup in place to break the union this is it. I'm starting to wonder who actually lost the referendum. Did the NO campaign go too far and actually backfire on them because all they've demonstrated since then is total and absolute contempt for Scotland and its people.

 

 

Alex get off your soap box

 

Sure there are a lot of poor people

 

But there are a lot of others doing very well, I suspect you are one of them,  I sure am

 

Go to Glasgow stand on the street corner look at the cars, the delivery vans, look at the shoppers , look at the bags they are carrying full of goodies, . AS long as I can remember Glasgow as been full of betting shops probably the same people who use them go to the food banks. If you live in that area sure you would go for  free food rather than pay for it.  In this country we are far better off than most other places, tracker mortgages low tax, shorter hours than our parents worked. I am no Tory but I am a realist, You make it sound like there is no tomorrow unless we spend spend spend. The vital thing for the next government is to get people , who can, back into work, create jobs. With cheap oil low transport costs, This nation and the UK as a whole should do very well over the next 5 years, regardless of the party in control. Lets forget moaning about so called austerity and pull together. Too much grumbling for my mind. Talk about who won referendums, is not helping, Germany lost the war, but who is the kingpin of Europe now. Life changes all the time. Elections come and elections go. Sometimes you have the upper hand and sometimes you are crushed. The problem with independence was its finality, no going back, in five years there will be another general election and things will look different, they always do. I first voted in 1964 won by Wilson with 4 votes or so, 18 months later he went to the country and won by a landside , in 1970 he was ousted by Edward Heath, In 1973 Wilson won again by a minority government, after that he went to the country again and won comfortably. The next election  was won by Thither who won 4 terms, Finalised by Major who lost in a landside to Tony Blair. Don't get smug over success it can all change over a few years.

 

No Laurence I wont get of my soapbox. I am as entitled to comment as you are. As for being well of. No I'm not. I get by but I have to travel to another country to work and pay taxes in two countries to get by. But, that aside, unlike you with your 'I'm alright jack' attitude I have concerns for those around me. I am concerned when those around me can only get zero hours contract employment. I'm concerned when thousands of young lives are being affected by poverty. I'm concerned about the dangers of having weapons of mass destruction on my doorstep. I'm concerned about the environmental impact of the overuse of fossil fuels. I dont look at my country and the world from behind a net curtain in my warm living room.

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The 2nd point is that Sturgeon also keeps banging on about the SNP MPs being needed to stand up for Scottish interests. 

Yup... to the extent that you would think that theSNP were the only people who have ever been interested in Scotland's interests. Maybe that's why they've presumed to attempt to amalgamate the national flag and their own party symbol into one and the same thing. I can think of at least one very unfortunate historical precedent there.....

 

Even by your own standards you have fallen to a new depth.....

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Derek Bateman tells it like it is http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/05/01/another-country/

 

I quote the last paragraph of his article........and invite DD and Charles et al to defend the attitude of the UK political parties.and offer their ideas on where the Union goes from here.

 

The underlying message of all this to me as a Scottish Nationalist is that my country isn’t wanted. Even when half the population are backing the SNP, we are treated as pariahs. No party will touch us. We are toxic in Westminster.

Mmm, yes.... another interesting, or should I say disturbing, example (q.v. the saltire) of the nationalist mentality presuming to regard the country and the party as one and the same thing.

Is it that the Nats can't or just won't get this? It's not Scotland that's regarded as toxic but the SNP as a result of their perpetually griping and divisive grievance politics.

Or look at it this way - would any other party want to come within a barge pole's length of a grouping for which, irrespective of what Nicola Sturgeon says, will have Alex Salmond as its mouthpiece (a word which I use advisedly!)

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Or look at it this way - would any other party want to come within a barge pole's length of a grouping for which, irrespective of what Nicola Sturgeon says, will have Alex Salmond as its mouthpiece (a word which I use advisedly!)

 

Tough.

They work for us.

If they start disregarding what the electorate vote for, then we have not even the appearance of democracy. Then what?

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To be deadly serious   we could be heading not just  an hung parliament but stalemate

The Conservatives will I think and so do the bookies  have the most seats

Labour and SNP will not have enough seats between them to form any sort of viable government i.e 170 + 50  bookie talk

The Conservatives will not get enough seats even with support of right-wingers to hold power for long 185 + whatever

The Prime Minister of the outgoing Parliament stays as Prime Minister until he tells the Queen he has not  been able to form a government, whether he has the largest party or not. It is then down to the Queen to send for the next man down, who will have the opportunity to try for support.

The problem is if no overall party has enough support legislation or no , the Queen will have to dissolve parliament and call another election.

I think myself in any rerun of the election if it comes to that, people with have to decide if they are red or blue and stop pissing about with minor parties.

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Never mind folks. Another five years of austerity rammed down our throats. Another five years of foodbanks. Of poverty. Perhaps they'll even start pinching pennies from Charlies pension. Labour made it very clear on QT that they wont be in government so all thats left is Dave to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. If ever there was a setup in place to break the union this is it. I'm starting to wonder who actually lost the referendum. Did the NO campaign go too far and actually backfire on them because all they've demonstrated since then is total and absolute contempt for Scotland and its people.

 

 

Alex get off your soap box

 

Sure there are a lot of poor people

 

But there are a lot of others doing very well, I suspect you are one of them,  I sure am

 

Go to Glasgow stand on the street corner look at the cars, the delivery vans, look at the shoppers , look at the bags they are carrying full of goodies, . AS long as I can remember Glasgow as been full of betting shops probably the same people who use them go to the food banks. If you live in that area sure you would go for  free food rather than pay for it.  In this country we are far better off than most other places, tracker mortgages low tax, shorter hours than our parents worked. I am no Tory but I am a realist, You make it sound like there is no tomorrow unless we spend spend spend. The vital thing for the next government is to get people , who can, back into work, create jobs. With cheap oil low transport costs, This nation and the UK as a whole should do very well over the next 5 years, regardless of the party in control. Lets forget moaning about so called austerity and pull together. Too much grumbling for my mind. Talk about who won referendums, is not helping, Germany lost the war, but who is the kingpin of Europe now. Life changes all the time. Elections come and elections go. Sometimes you have the upper hand and sometimes you are crushed. The problem with independence was its finality, no going back, in five years there will be another general election and things will look different, they always do. I first voted in 1964 won by Wilson with 4 votes or so, 18 months later he went to the country and won by a landside , in 1970 he was ousted by Edward Heath, In 1973 Wilson won again by a minority government, after that he went to the country again and won comfortably. The next election  was won by Thither who won 4 terms, Finalised by Major who lost in a landside to Tony Blair. Don't get smug over success it can all change over a few years.

 

No Laurence I wont get of my soapbox. I am as entitled to comment as you are. As for being well of. No I'm not. I get by but I have to travel to another country to work and pay taxes in two countries to get by. But, that aside, unlike you with your 'I'm alright jack' attitude I have concerns for those around me. I am concerned when those around me can only get zero hours contract employment. I'm concerned when thousands of young lives are being affected by poverty. I'm concerned about the dangers of having weapons of mass destruction on my doorstep. I'm concerned about the environmental impact of the overuse of fossil fuels. I dont look at my country and the world from behind a net curtain in my warm living room.

 

 

 

Just pointing out that statements like pumping austerity down our throats are not right. True life is hard for a lot of people. But this still find there way to have all the trappings of a modern society not like the poor blighters in Nepal

 

We are getting a society that moan and groan all the time

 

I respect what you say about how you have succeeded in your life, working all hours, But I think you should chill out on the moaning

 

With regard to the weapons , I carried a CND badge for years, But the stuff I am hearing now about submarines is a fairy tale.

 

If the subs are to cost 100 billion they would have to be gold plated, The estimates put to parliament over the next 20 odd years range from 500 million to 700 million per year , gross about 15 billion  tops - Then you have to look at tax, as most of the spend is in wages between 20 and 40% is returned to he treasury. Again the engineering firms manufacturing the subs employ people and pay Vat and Corporation tax. Not to mention the cost of benefits if the project was cancelled.   At the end of the day if it stops the UK being blackmailed by Korea  or Iran it may be worth it?

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Derek Bateman tells it like it is http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/05/01/another-country/

 

I quote the last paragraph of his article........and invite DD and Charles et al to defend the attitude of the UK political parties.and offer their ideas on where the Union goes from here.

 

The underlying message of all this to me as a Scottish Nationalist is that my country isn’t wanted. Even when half the population are backing the SNP, we are treated as pariahs. No party will touch us. We are toxic in Westminster. Every one of the major Unionist groupings has told us that a constitutional party of social democrats in Scotland – one that is so respectable that the Prime Minister signs the Edinburgh Agreement with them – doesn’t belong in the power structures of Britain. And you can see where I am going…the deeper realisation is that the day of independence draws ever nearer as layer after layer of British state apparatus rejects us and declares us outsiders not worthy of influence in government. We are truly another country and the more SNP people we elect, the more scared and irrational they get. At the very time the SNP has accepted referendum defeat and offers to help a Unionist party, they spit on us. Scots are finally getting the message.

Absolute rubbish.  Of course Scotland is wanted by the rest of the UK.  It is what the Union is all about.  It is the SNP that is not wanted because it is the SNP who are saying they don't want our country: our wider union of nations. The unionist parties seek to implement policies for the long term good of the UK so what on earth makes anyone think they would want to do deals with a party who wants to break up that Union.  It's a bit like planning for ICT's long term future by inviting folk onto the Board who want ICT to demerge.

 

SNP supporters keep saying that independence is not an issue in this election and whilst that is true in the sense that a Westminster Parliament is not going to vote for an independence referendum, it is undoubtedly the elephant in the room.  Bateman states that the SNP has accepted the referendum defeat and yet we all know that is not true.  We were told before the referendum that this would be a once in a generation thing but now that the referendum is over there is no such talk.  Sturgeon won't even rule a referendum out of the SNP's manifesto for next year's Holyrood election!  Accepting referendum defeat means to accept that there needs to be a period of political stability where Governments can get on and govern.  The fall out from the referendum was the Smith commission which is providing further devolved powers for Scotland, so why can't the SNP, for the good of the country, commit to a sensible period of working with the revised powers?  If the SNP would respect the decision the Scottish electorate made last September and commit to a period of constitutional stability then other parties would have a bit more respect for them.

 

If you vote in a UK election for a party that refuses to commit to the UK for longer than next year's Holyrood election, you can hardly complain when parties who are committed to the UK refuse to do deals with it.  Bateman rather objectionably uses the phrase "they spit on us". By "us" does he mean the Scottish people or just the SNP?  Certainly the unionist parties are not spitting on the Scottish people - quite the opposite in fact.  Nor are they spitting on the SNP just because a contrived offer of "help" is refused.  Instead, Bateman's language illustrates the rather unfortunate SNP unofficial strategy to look to create division and animosity in order to turn Scottish voters against the union.  It's nasty, but it's a strategy that's working rather well.

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 Instead, Bateman's language illustrates the rather unfortunate SNP unofficial strategy to look to create division and animosity in order to turn Scottish voters against the union.  It's nasty, but it's a strategy that's working rather well.

 

I have given this a resounding "like" but would wish to disagree on one minor detail. I woud hesitate to categorise the SNP's strategy of the creation of division and animosity as "unofficial" - but rather as its "principal but unspoken" strategy. It has been the mainstay of their rise.

When Bateman used to send me off to sleep again shortly after Newsweek came on Radio Scotland at 8 on a Saturday morning, I just used to think he was quite simply a tedious obsessive.... not so much a referendum anorak but a bloody great parka, the kind of guy you would dread getting stuck in a lift with.

Now it emerges that he's also bitter and sufficiently twisted to need these large chips on each shoulder so he can stay standing up.

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Inverness town centre mobbed today for the visit of Nicola Sturgeon to support Drew Hendry   :scotland: must be a worrying time for Danny!

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The 2nd point is that Sturgeon also keeps banging on about the SNP MPs being needed to stand up for Scottish interests. 

Yup... to the extent that you would think that theSNP were the only people who have ever been interested in Scotland's interests. Maybe that's why they've presumed to attempt to amalgamate the national flag and their own party symbol into one and the same thing. I can think of at least one very unfortunate historical precedent there.....

 

 

Utterly pathetic.

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Utterly pathetic is a good description of the last ditch lies being sent out by NuLabour, Scottish Branch Office (mostly, it seems in Glasgow).......very similar to the proven lies and misinformation in the referendum...........particularly the scaring again of we old folks over our pensions. Just a darn shame it is acceptable to tell blatant lies under the guise of Election literature.  And that's without mentioning Labour's incompetence with figures

 

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-desperate-hours/#more-70739   makes some comments re probity in electioneering/elections and also on what looks like a push to ensure the Tories win.......and also says This may be the single most catastrophically stupid election campaign ever undertaken by Labour (or anyone) in the UK.

 

I won't quote chunks of the long article, although I'd like to, because I know many won't read wings...but a few chosen quotes (which have evidence)   (and a link to an external site)  follow..........

 

Jim Murphy sending frightened elderly voters a letter warning of dire consequences for their pensions should the SNP win.

in Anas Sarwar’s seat, with a whole army of imaginary voters being concocted in order to send identical “personal” letters to residents of particular streets.

Conservative candidate for the East Renfrewshire seat, David Montgomery, campaigning yesterday at a stall in Clarkston shared with Scottish Labour regional manager Jim Murphy.

allied with

a fake letter sent to a new SNP member purporting to be from the party, which starts plausibly before urging the recipient to vote Tory on the grounds that an SNP-Labour collaboration couldn’t work. (although, tbh, I'm not convinced that wasn't just a one-off friend/relation taking the mick from a new member who is deaving them to death with a Join SNP mantra...but if it is correct, and was sent by a political party other than the SNP, then there are moles in SNP HQ (like there was in the IRA) breaching the Data Protection Act.)

 

Then there is  the Labour website Labour Uncut has thrown caution to the wind and driven a coach and horses through every electoral law in the country by not only admitting that Labour has been illegally surveying and tallying postal votes, but then actually publishing the findings.

 

And getting to their inability to correlate figures, because their blind hatred of the SNP is much more important than stopping the Tories getting another term.....

 

Currently Scotland provides a net 35 anti-Tory MPs (47 Labour and SNP minus 12 Tory and Lib Dem). Even were the SNP to pull off a clean sweep, wiping Labour out totally, that number would rise to 59 anti-Tory MPs. That’s 24 extra anti-Tory votes in the Commons compared to the Labour landslide of 2010.

In an election as tight as this one, those 24 extra votes could easily make the difference between Labour getting in and the coalition managing to cling on. But in its demented, blind, tribal hatred of the Nats, Labour not only risks handing Cameron a 24-seat advantage, but also the moral right to form the government even should the arithmetic be against him, by using Labour’s own “biggest party” lie against it.

Astoundingly, some Labour figures have even been complicit in a tactical-voting campaign that would give even MORE Scottish seats to the Tories and Lib Dems – 16 rather than 12, whichever variant of the hilarious “wheel” you choose to follow, and every one of them giving the Tories at least six seats to their current one.

(Were the wheel to succeed entirely in its aims, Scotland would provide a net figure of just 27 anti-Tory MPs rather than 59, increasing Cameron’s advantage to 32.)

 

As it says on wings.......The litany of lunacy seems almost without end.

 

 

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Oddquine

 

You get nut cases in every level of politics

 

Political parties are broad churches.

 

Some people in the Conservative Party like Kenneth Clarke you can respect and have good judgement

 

I think Ed Milliband you can rely on to be his own man and will seek to make things as they should be

 

It will be down to the SNP to work with Labour not the other way round.

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As it says on wings.......The litany of lunacy seems almost without end.

You separatist folks actually take this Wings chap quite seriously, don't you? :crazy:

 

YES Charles :crazy:

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As it says on wings.......The litany of lunacy seems almost without end.

You separatist folks actually take this Wings chap quite seriously, don't you? :crazy:

 

 

A lot more seriously than anything emanating from the MSM, anyway.  He may not get everything 100% right....who does...but, unlike the MSM, he doesn't do "off the top of his head invention and interpretation" to fill an article/post with nothing but bile and bias (like some people I could mention). He, and everyone else who posts articles on Wings, give links to the information on which they base their opinions, and if people disagree with his/their interpretation of the facts,  they can, and do, query that interpretation in the comments section.

 

Wings, and its success, is a direct reaction to the abysmally biased journalism, both media and print, which has been growing in the UK, particularly when referring to Scotland, since the SNP bucked the specially crafted voting system by being elected in a workable majority in 2007, and which exploded into irrationality in the months prior to the Edinburgh Agreement. When the MSM " journalists" and "reporters" do little journalism or reporting other than rephrase/regurgitate word for word, the propaganda provided by Westminster, whether that is the Government itself, or the individual Unionist parties, without querying any part of what they say, the truth has to be found somewhere....and that is what Wings does.....looks for the facts, and using them dissects the lies in the MSM.....and draws conclusions. based on the full facts available, and not the specially chosen ones of all the Union propaganda productions.

 

He is certainly biased towards the pro-independence POV..but he admits his bias....unlike the MSM...but also unlike the MSM, is not biased  to the extent of failing to acknowledge and accept that there are irrational numpties on both sides among the parties and supporters. The MSM gives the impression that nobody posts on social media except "cybernats". (again, like some people I could mention).  It isn't so much the bias I object to with the MSM (bar that of the BBC, because it is taxpayer funded.....though not by me anymore), because everybody is biased in some direction or another, but the bile, the nastiness, the lies and the remarks which, if they were being made in reference to Jews, Muslims and just about any other minority in this country would be classed as racism.

 

But even some Scots thought that kind of bile was just fine, and repeated it ad nauseam....and now appear to have no problems with that kind of attitude continuing even after we have voted to stay in the Union,  I assume because, after all, we are only Scots and need to be kept in our place below the salt. And that is why Wings still exists.......because the need for it is still there.

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Whatever we say or do on this forum will not make any difference

So leave off Charles.

He is someone for the Highlands to be proud of

His politics are opposite to mine but I respect his opinion, not like some on here.

So give remarks like lies and bile a rest

As I said the voters will vote and the politicians will have it so sort out.

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