Jump to content

The General Election 2015 Thread


Recommended Posts

Oddquine

 

You get nut cases in every level of politics

 

Political parties are broad churches.

 

Some people in the Conservative Party like Kenneth Clarke you can respect and have good judgement

 

I think Ed Milliband you can rely on to be his own man and will seek to make things as they should be

 

It will be down to the SNP to work with Labour not the other way round.

 

You don't say.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 528
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Again the reports are inaccurate. Two well known individuals who have made a habit of following Jim Murphy and rudely and very vocally disrupting his meetings who were until yesterday among the 114,00

Achtung! I actually find it hilarious listening to to the British nationalists continually bleating about the referendum, which they won FFS, and how it's all the SNP are interested in. It goes s

Posted Images

Whatever we say or do on this forum will not make any difference

So leave off Charles.

He is someone for the Highlands to be proud of

His politics are opposite to mine but I respect his opinion, not like some on here.

So give remarks like lies and bile a rest

As I said the voters will vote and the politicians will have it so sort out.

 

Given I didn't mention Charles, I am interested that you automatically assumed I was talking about him, and not you, or DD, or others who have been, for some long time, enthusiastically denigrating the SNP and their leaders, the YES campaign and its leaders, and Independence supporters in general....a trend which appears to have continued even though we are still in the Union and are still trying to play by the Union rules, as we always have.  In other countries that would be called democracy......but in the UK it appears to be called unacceptable and outrageous.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a contribution from Lerwick :

 

"But don’t, whatever you do, think that giving the UK parties a bloody nose in the UK General Election is a good idea. What that means is don’t vote Ukip, and in our part of the world it especially means don’t vote SNP. Such an action will only open the door to political chaos and disruption, the outcome of which is uncertain and potentially very dangerous.

 

In Germany in November 1932 the electorate decided to give the political establishment a bloody nose when 33 per cent voted for their nationalists. Within three months that led to a Nazi dictatorship, and within a few years that led to a bloody nose for everyone between the north of Norway and the south of New Zealand. So the conclusion has to be that we shouldn’t play with political fire in the UK General Election. Vote for the UK party that most closely reflects your views (and get involved if they don’t adequately do so) and don’t vote SNP."

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a contribution from Lerwick :

 

"But don’t, whatever you do, think that giving the UK parties a bloody nose in the UK General Election is a good idea. What that means is don’t vote Ukip, and in our part of the world it especially means don’t vote SNP. Such an action will only open the door to political chaos and disruption, the outcome of which is uncertain and potentially very dangerous.

 

In Germany in November 1932 the electorate decided to give the political establishment a bloody nose when 33 per cent voted for their nationalists. Within three months that led to a Nazi dictatorship, and within a few years that led to a bloody nose for everyone between the north of Norway and the south of New Zealand. So the conclusion has to be that we shouldn’t play with political fire in the UK General Election. Vote for the UK party that most closely reflects your views (and get involved if they don’t adequately do so) and don’t vote SNP."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow!  If that isn't irrationality, I dunno what is. Absolutely the best and most ludicrous Project Fear #2 attempt yet! ....even better than the annexing of Faslane was in Project Fear #1 Pretty please, can you give me a link to where you got it, so I can bung it up on an Orkney FB page to amuse them!

 

Edited to say, Google is great.......just found the letter the quote is from, if anyone wants to read the whole thing......http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2015/04/05/dont-vote-snp-graham-johnston  and don't miss the btl comments....they are certainly more interesting, arguably more instructive and much less vituperative and insulting than the equivalent found in any of the main newspapers in the UK. 

Edited by Oddquine
Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever we say or do on this forum will not make any difference

So leave off Charles.

He is someone for the Highlands to be proud of

His politics are opposite to mine but I respect his opinion, not like some on here.

So give remarks like lies and bile a rest

As I said the voters will vote and the politicians will have it so sort out.

Lol be proud of? Nothing to be proud of in that man. He is comparing the SNP to the Nazis. He's a condescending fruit loop.

It seems you might be the only person who isn't bored senseless of him.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Drew Hendry must be one happy man as Bannerman has increased the popularity of the SNP in this area on a large scale with his ridiculous inane ramblings

No need for the SNP to spend serious money on a electoral campaign when they have this roaster doing it for them

I've never been a SNP voter in the past but I'm nearly swayed reading his rubbish, the last time I've read so much garbage I think it was when I had the misfortune to read some of "Against All Odds"

Let's face it he wasn't voted the worst poster in CTO history for nothing

Dougal

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Godwin's Law--sound familiar??

 

There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[3] than others.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.[8] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law.

Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis – often referred to as "playing the Hitler card". The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocideeugenics, or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of othertotalitarian regimes or ideologies[citation needed], if that was the explicit topic of conversation, because a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate, in effect committing thefallacist's fallacy, or inferring that an argument containing a fallacy must necessarily come to incorrect conclusions. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, because this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.

:smile:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Godwin's Law--sound familiar??

 

There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[3] than others.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.[8] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law.

Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis – often referred to as "playing the Hitler card". The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocideeugenics, or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of othertotalitarian regimes or ideologies[citation needed], if that was the explicit topic of conversation, because a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate, in effect committing thefallacist's fallacy, or inferring that an argument containing a fallacy must necessarily come to incorrect conclusions. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, because this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.

:smile:

God almighty Dougie.... you didn't write this convoluted, pretentious bollox yourself, did you? :lol:

 

Anyway, this "Godwin's Law" seems simply to be a verbose attempt to exempt individuals and organisations which exhibit Nazi traits (and hence always stifle criticism anyway) from ever being exposed as such.

 

So I wonder why an SNP supporter should resort to such a device.........?

Link to post
Share on other sites

On the contrary, it shows how when the desperate and the bereft of ideas resort to calling those who disagree with them Nazis, they have limited debating skills and have effectively lost the argument.

 

So every mention of "Mein Banff," swastikas and other such guff merely confirms how you have lost the argument, and as the bold Dougal says, a few more SNP supporters are confirmed.

 

So, keep up the good work! :clapping:  

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On the contrary, it shows how when the desperate and the bereft of ideas resort to calling those who disagree with them Nazis, they have limited debating skills and have effectively lost the argument.

 

So every mention of "Mein Banff," swastikas and other such guff merely confirms how you have lost the argument, and as the bold Dougal says, a few more SNP supporters are confirmed.

 

So, keep up the good work! :clapping:  

What a wonderful Get Out Of Jail card this Godwin's Law is to allow any group or individual to behave as they like and not be held to account for what they really are.

Sort of a wee bit like anyone who doesn't agree with the SNP being automatically branded as Anti Scottish.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On the contrary, it shows how when the desperate and the bereft of ideas resort to calling those who disagree with them Nazis, they have limited debating skills and have effectively lost the argument.

 

So every mention of "Mein Banff," swastikas and other such guff merely confirms how you have lost the argument, and as the bold Dougal says, a few more SNP supporters are confirmed.

 

So, keep up the good work! :clapping:  

What a wonderful Get Out Of Jail card this Godwin's Law is to allow any group or individual to behave as they like and not be held to account for what they really are.

Sort of a wee bit like anyone who doesn't agree with the SNP being automatically branded as Anti Scottish.

 

 

The only person who has mentioned people being Anti-Scottish is you. The only person comparing the SNP and in turn people on this messageboard as Nazis, again is you.

 

I see similarities between you and Jim Murphy here, you are both pathetic and have completely lost the plot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah yes, another straw man--yer anti-Scottish if ye don't vote the SNP, seeing as this is never said by anyone in the SNP, it seems more like a product of a confused mind , unsure of itself, and again, bereft of arguments.

 

Also, on the evidence of this forum, those playing the Nazi card are the real jokers.  :smile:

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah yes, another straw man--yer anti-Scottish if ye don't vote the SNP, seeing as this is never said by anyone in the SNP, it seems more like a product of a confused mind , unsure of itself, and again, bereft of arguments.

 

 

Not everyone got the memo!

 

http://news.stv.tv/politics/293417-parties-clash-over-msps-anti-scottish-claims/

Link to post
Share on other sites

CB - I may have something that could change your mind - If SNP come in to power I will return home.

Can only assume you will abstain from voting as I can't see Sinn Fein having many candidates in Lancashire

Dougal

Link to post
Share on other sites

Talk about putting words into other peoples mouths

Say a misinterpretation often enough and every body believes it

Nobody on this board called anyone a Nazi. The reference is general to the way Nazis went about getting public support. Charles is an historian, but it is well known that certain procedures influence peoples voting intentions. In 1932 Hitler was voted in on a wave public support on the testimony of the Catholic church to keep out communism.

It shows that public support is not always correct. Symbols were used, propaganda was used.

We all know when the brain washing machine gets rolling like a snowball you can get anyone to vote for

Charles is just pointing out the similarities in approach I am sure he is not calling anybody a gangster.

I know of no one who lives in Scotland and very few who don't are anti - Scottish.

There are a lot of Scots behind your back are anti - English

The Scottish paranoia with the Saltire is apparent every where. When I was a kid the only place you ever saw one was on a church.

The Same in England you saw more Irish Tricolours than you saw the flag of St George. But all that is changing St George flags are starting to appear in English towns as well.

I don't like it is smacks of the old parish pump brigade, or the wild western syndrome get the strangers out of town.

The philosophy of a stronger Scotland, what does that mean exactly? Does it mean give Scotland more than it's fair share of wealth? If so it is patently wrong and grasping for every fast buck, for one region over another.

The SNP know this there aim in life is to spread discord until the system cracks

I for one don't want Scottish parliament to set its own tax. This nation needs over $40 billion just to stay as it is. Oil wealth is about £10 billion , so 30 billion has to be raised from taxation. In a country of 5 and half million I would be surprised if more than a million of them pay £1000 in taxes,

Even if its 2000 it doesn't come to much. That is working within the Union. Outside the Union Scotland would have to pay for its massive import bill.

The public have been led by the nose by a party within nothing to lose can say what it wants and thinks the tail will wag the dog.

Ed Milliband will not put up with it I am certain

I was in London the other day, a lot of people are coming round to the view why should 5 million control 60 million people one said to me " Let the buggers stew in their own juice".

This how the SNP is ruining the goodwill between the nations. Everybody in England used to like the Scots, I am not sure now. There is a problem folks and elections and rhetoric like the SNP are pulling out is not helping.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Talk about putting words into other peoples mouths

Say a misinterpretation often enough and every body believes it

Nobody on this board called anyone a Nazi. The reference is general to the way Nazis went about getting public support. Charles is an historian, but it is well known that certain procedures influence peoples voting intentions. In 1932 Hitler was voted in on a wave public support on the testimony of the Catholic church to keep out communism.

It shows that public support is not always correct. Symbols were used, propaganda was used.

We all know when the brain washing machine gets rolling like a snowball you can get anyone to vote for

Charles is just pointing out the similarities in approach I am sure he is not calling anybody a gangster.

I know of no one who lives in Scotland and very few who don't are anti - Scottish.

There are a lot of Scots behind your back are anti - English

The Scottish paranoia with the Saltire is apparent every where. When I was a kid the only place you ever saw one was on a church.

The Same in England you saw more Irish Tricolours than you saw the flag of St George. But all that is changing St George flags are starting to appear in English towns as well.

I don't like it is smacks of the old parish pump brigade, or the wild western syndrome get the strangers out of town.

The philosophy of a stronger Scotland, what does that mean exactly? Does it mean give Scotland more than it's fair share of wealth? If so it is patently wrong and grasping for every fast buck, for one region over another.

The SNP know this there aim in life is to spread discord until the system cracks

I for one don't want Scottish parliament to set its own tax. This nation needs over $40 billion just to stay as it is. Oil wealth is about £10 billion , so 30 billion has to be raised from taxation. In a country of 5 and half million I would be surprised if more than a million of them pay £1000 in taxes,

Even if its 2000 it doesn't come to much. That is working within the Union. Outside the Union Scotland would have to pay for its massive import bill.

The public have been led by the nose by a party within nothing to lose can say what it wants and thinks the tail will wag the dog.

Ed Milliband will not put up with it I am certain

I was in London the other day, a lot of people are coming round to the view why should 5 million control 60 million people one said to me " Let the buggers stew in their own juice".

This how the SNP is ruining the goodwill between the nations. Everybody in England used to like the Scots, I am not sure now. There is a problem folks and elections and rhetoric like the SNP are pulling out is not helping.

 

Wowzers.  :amazed:  :blink:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Talk about putting words into other peoples mouths

Say a misinterpretation often enough and every body believes it

Nobody on this board called anyone a Nazi. The reference is general to the way Nazis went about getting public support. Charles is an historian, but it is well known that certain procedures influence peoples voting intentions. In 1932 Hitler was voted in on a wave public support on the testimony of the Catholic church to keep out communism.

It shows that public support is not always correct. Symbols were used, propaganda was used.

We all know when the brain washing machine gets rolling like a snowball you can get anyone to vote for

Charles is just pointing out the similarities in approach I am sure he is not calling anybody a gangster.

I know of no one who lives in Scotland and very few who don't are anti - Scottish.

There are a lot of Scots behind your back are anti - English

The Scottish paranoia with the Saltire is apparent every where. When I was a kid the only place you ever saw one was on a church.

The Same in England you saw more Irish Tricolours than you saw the flag of St George. But all that is changing St George flags are starting to appear in English towns as well.

I don't like it is smacks of the old parish pump brigade, or the wild western syndrome get the strangers out of town.

The philosophy of a stronger Scotland, what does that mean exactly? Does it mean give Scotland more than it's fair share of wealth? If so it is patently wrong and grasping for every fast buck, for one region over another.

The SNP know this there aim in life is to spread discord until the system cracks

I for one don't want Scottish parliament to set its own tax. This nation needs over $40 billion just to stay as it is. Oil wealth is about £10 billion , so 30 billion has to be raised from taxation. In a country of 5 and half million I would be surprised if more than a million of them pay £1000 in taxes,

Even if its 2000 it doesn't come to much. That is working within the Union. Outside the Union Scotland would have to pay for its massive import bill.

The public have been led by the nose by a party within nothing to lose can say what it wants and thinks the tail will wag the dog.

Ed Milliband will not put up with it I am certain

I was in London the other day, a lot of people are coming round to the view why should 5 million control 60 million people one said to me " Let the buggers stew in their own juice".

This how the SNP is ruining the goodwill between the nations. Everybody in England used to like the Scots, I am not sure now. There is a problem folks and elections and rhetoric like the SNP are pulling out is not helping.

 

Laurence, you don't have to use the WORD Nazi you just have to use words and phrases which imply Nazi........ words and phrases like streets of Munich in 1923, "Mein Banff" and the like..... but I think the Nazi reared its head from a quote provided by IHE from a letter in the Shetland Times, not directly from Charles........he did the implying.  Charles is a historian? I thought he was a chemistry teacher and sports writer. 

 

Laurence if you were a kid in Scotland, and you are the age you are, that  was in the days after the war, when most folk couldn't have afforded to buy a Saltire anyway, the days when people still felt British, when the Welfare State was brand spanking new, and when Governments  still did commonsense, pragmatism and empathy.....and gave a toss about more than the profit they could make in the time they warmed the green benches..and the people had hope that the end of the war was going to herald a better life. .

 

Stronger Scotland means giving Scotland a decent voice for the first time ever, because Unionist politicians from Scotland vote for their party careers first the UK second and Scotland last if at all. The only thing that Scotland specifically wants is the Smith commission proposals to get through Parliament........improvements to it would be good, though.....that would maybe give us a level of devolution nearer that enjoyed by NI. Apart from that, we'd like to see Labour being a bit more Old Labourish maybe than they have been since Blair and actually doing something to make Keir Hardie proud and stop him birling like a top in his grave. You do really want to bear in mind that the SNP is not out to trash the rest of the UK.because to do that will trash Scotland as well, given we are still tied to the UK.

 

Do you still live in Scotland, Laurence, I kinda thought you didn't, don't know why......but I suppose you must, given I for one don't want Scottish parliament to set its own tax.

 

I don't know what utter crap you are reading, Laurence, but Scotland isn't getting to raise all its tax......it is getting to raise around 30% of its tax, and most of the extra, above what we already collect, is mostly just because we are getting 10p in the pound knocked off Barnett money, and are being obliged to pay the UK Government , on top of what they already take to help fund HMRC,  to collect that 10p (or whatever it ends up being). I'm not even going to attempt to discuss your figures, because I wouldn't know where to start in such a load of tripe. I will say that it actually, if you are going to believe government figures, Scotland needs £55- £60 billion to stay as it is..which is why we don't want to stay as we are, because 85% of that £55-£60 billion heads down to Westminster, and away from Scotland to disappear without trace.  And Laurence....63 million people importing stuff costs a helluva sight more than 5.5 million people importing stuff, particularly if that 5.5 million have a decent level of exports to balance that lesser amount of imports.It is the rest of the UK which has by far the biggest trade deficit. 

 

For a lot of us, Laurence, Westminster destroyed the goodwill a long time ago, and Scottish  NuLabour, the goodwill of many of its own supporters, over the last couple of years, and both are only compounding our alienation by their arrogance in rejecting the democratically elected representatives voted in by what could be up to half of the Scottish voting population..because they are not of the favoured establishment. But then that makes the SNP not only for Scotland, but of Scotland and like Scotland...........because it has become more and more clear over the last couple of years that Scotland, despite the rhetoric of love which has bombarded us, is also not of the favoured establishment, because, whether Westminster likes it or not the system means that the SNP representatives will represent all of their consitituents, including those who voted NO. Westminster has made our place in the Union clear.........our place is is beyond the pale.

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Laurence, you don't have to use the WORD Nazi you just have to use words and phrases which imply Nazi........ words and phrases like streets of Munich in 1923, "Mein Banff" and the like..... but I think the Nazi reared its head from a quote provided by IHE from a letter in the Shetland Times, not directly from Charles........he did the implying. 

It's past the time merely for implying. Indeed it seems rather appropriate that this issue is emerging here on the day of an attempt by a mob waving SNP leaflets (nothing to do with the SNP at all of course!) to break up a Labour Party rally in Glasgow.

However this is but one manifestation of the many uncomfortable parallels between on the one hand the recent growth of the SNP and its unpleasant brand of Scottish nationalism and on the other the Nazi (there you go OQ! No implication there!) party and National Socialism in Germany in the 1920s and 30s.

But let's begin more generally. In both cases a caucus of cranks (a bit of research into Arthur Donaldson and Andrew Gibb is interesting but there are plenty more) has grown into widespread support at the ballot box through the disingenuous seduction of a sometimes politically naive electorate, or section of it, which would come to regret its unfortunate decision.

In Germany it began with popular resentment of the armistice and peace treaty after World War 1. "Stabbed in the back" was the emotive phrase and is not all that different from the kind of stuff heard in modern Scotland. Forces of the far right stoked up these post-war resentments and invented a fair few others - especially once a major financial depression took hold.

For 1930s depression, read a 21st century post-recession stirring-up of resentment over austerity and foodbanks.

Similarly the SNP, who these days find it more politically expedient to espouse the far left than the far right, have as an absolute cornerstone of their strategy the incessant promotion of perceived grievance - especially towards certain proscribed groups.

For Jews and Communists, read English and Conservatives - and also, any other party (such as the so-called "Red Tories") or individuals disagreeing with them. Of late it has become rather un-PC to be seen as hostile to other races but there are plenty of other metaphors for the English, such as "Westmonster", while the Tories are always a great target again.

Just as the streets of Munich or Mannheim, teeming with Brownshirts, were unpleasant places for the politically more discerning, today's disgracefully disruptive events and plenty others during the referendum tell a similar story. And apart from the feral mobs of underclass who have flocked to the deception, technology now creates a completely new oppression where Cybernats can intimidate opponents without even budging from their computer screens.

Saltire and Swastika - both have been hijacked as the common emblems of the indistinguishable party and state. Increasingly authoritarian and centralised national police forces. Hysterical denunciations of media failing to peddle the party line. And then, of course, the respective sets of book burners.

The list of parallels becomes more and more chilling as it lengthens.

In both scenarios, internal party discipline with the severest sanctions for disobedience rules supreme. Spectacular, high profile assemblies of the faithful and adulation of the leadership fire up supporters and further intimidate opponents.

So it was an interlude of comic relief when, after the referendum and over 90 years on from the Munich Putsch, again after a humiliating defeat, a leader retreated (this time to Strichen and not Landsberg Jail) to write a tedious, self-obsessed and verbose diatribe cataloguing all the wrongs and injustices arrayed against him.

However the levity doesn't last for long because Scotland has become a hugely less pleasant place to live in since the SNP began strutting its stuff along our high streets.

But at least I can still sleep safe in my bed at night.... until Obergruppenfuhrer Dougie Danger and a squad of Yellowshirts come hammering at my door to drag me off to detention in Fort George.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Most reports in NZ are now equating the SNP and supporters as Fascist, bigoted and racist. It is reported that SNP supporter tactics, antics and behaviour are reminiscent and consistent with those of Nazi Party supporters in the early 1930's.  The most disturbing of the lot is the hatred being levelled at English people. Some of the video footage is a very ugly and disturbing.

 

It is also reported that some on-line comments are being made by SNP supporters that they wished that they had used violence during the referendum to secure a Yes victory.  Is this true? I cannot believe that Scottish people are heading down this road.  One panel commentator here in NZ compared the situation in Scotland as similar to that of Ireland in the early 1900's when the Irish Nationalist returned around 59 MPs to Westminster.  They felt it was only a matter of time before SNP Nationalists pick up arms and started killing fellow Scots.  There is a very strong view here that the SNP are a racist organisation supported by racists.

 

Sad days.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. : Terms of Use : Guidelines : Privacy Policy