pride of scotland?

[arbroath2ict5]

I see everyone jumping to slag off Rangers for what happened in Romania.

not one mention of what happened in Falkirk when Celtc fans disrupted the minutes silence on rememberence Sunday...

One lot is as bad as the other........

Edited November 10, 2009 by arbroath2ict5

[WYNESS101]

Celtc fans disrupted the minutes silence on rememberence Sunday...

What they do? Havnt read anything about it in the papers

[arbroath2ict5]

[WYNESS101]

What they singing cant really make it out?

[arbroath2ict5]

Does it matter?

It was supposed to be a minutes silence!!

[Yngwie]

I believe it's an IRA song.

[DanielMacBean]

disgusting. absolute scumbags.

[BonnybridgeICT]

Celtc fans disrupted the minutes silence on rememberence Sunday...

What they do? Havnt read anything about it in the papers

There was a tiny snippet in the Sun on Monday that made out that it was random punters that just happened to be outside the ground and were singing. Funny, that as the Falkirk Stadium is a wee bit out of the way for folk to just be randomly wandering past! Sky TV cut the audio feed on the broadcast during the 'silence'.

With the Old Firm harping on about going down to England to play, can you imagine Celtic fans doing that on rememberance Sunday at a ground down south..... there would be an absolute riot! Luckily as it's happened in Scotland it gets swept under the carpet and prevents further shame for our country. I can't understand so-called 'fans' of any team voicing any disrespect during a silence, especially as in this case it effectively shames the memory of Celtic players and fans who paid the ultimate price for their country in WW1 etc.

[Oz647]

Whilst I'm sure there are nice respectable fans on both sides of the old firm, there does seem to be a lot of vile bigoted scum attached to these teams. I think that even the most ardent fan must condemn the goings on of both sets of idiots over the last couple of incidents. As the OP states, we were all quick to jump on Rangers "fans", how do we feel about the Celtic "fans"? I know how I feel about interupting the minute silence but better not put it on here as my warning might go up a tadge. I would be very interested to hear DornochCaley's views. This is not to wind him up but as he is the most outspoken Celtic fan on here, it would be interesting to here it from his point of view. Surely even he will not condone what was done?

[DornochCaley]

Whilst I'm sure there are nice respectable fans on both sides of the old firm, there does seem to be a lot of vile bigoted scum attached to these teams. I think that even the most ardent fan must condemn the goings on of both sets of idiots over the last couple of incidents. As the OP states, we were all quick to jump on Rangers "fans", how do we feel about the Celtic "fans"? I know how I feel about interupting the minute silence but better not put it on here as my warning might go up a tadge. :023: I would be very interested to hear DornochCaley's views. This is not to wind him up but as he is the most outspoken Celtic fan on here, it would be interesting to here it from his point of view. Surely even he will not condone what was done?

Before i say anything. I have the highest respects for the soliders dispite what i may have said in the past. As the song goes "Men of the British Working class, Soldiers over night. Tossed into a melting pot, of bloody war and strife. Never understanding, always fearing for their lives". What i am about to say is not condoning or supporting what happened. It is just my views and the views of other Celtic fans i have spoken to. I obviously do not speak for all the Celtic fans that walked out.

I feel that if the rememberance was just for WW1 & 2 i would have no problem. They were, in my opnion, legitimate wars and they had to be fought. But, the problem for me is that it is now a rememberance for ALL wars after the First World War. This is what i feel the problem is. I respect the soldiers. But i cannot remember them in good light as they fought in wars i am totally against. But if one day, which i know it will never happen, the Goverment who i feel are the real criminals in all this, turn around and say they were wrong to go into these countries and accept they are to belame, then i will go a memorial sevice every year. As it stands though, they think they were correct as always, the soldiers fought in a war which in my opinion was wrong, and so, i choose not to remember those. Though i do take time out to remember the men who died during the First and Second World Wars.

Another slating i predict!

Edited November 11, 2009 by DornochCaley

[Oz647]

Whilst I'm sure there are nice respectable fans on both sides of the old firm, there does seem to be a lot of vile bigoted scum attached to these teams. I think that even the most ardent fan must condemn the goings on of both sets of idiots over the last couple of incidents. As the OP states, we were all quick to jump on Rangers "fans", how do we feel about the Celtic "fans"? I know how I feel about interupting the minute silence but better not put it on here as my warning might go up a tadge. :023: I would be very interested to hear DornochCaley's views. This is not to wind him up but as he is the most outspoken Celtic fan on here, it would be interesting to here it from his point of view. Surely even he will not condone what was done?

Before i say anything. I have the highest respects for the soliders dispite what i may have said in the past. As the song goes "Men of the British Working class, Soldiers over night. Tossed into a melting pot, of bloody war and strife. Never understanding, always fearing for their lives". What i am about to say is not condoning or supporting what happened. It is just my views and the views of other Celtic fans i have spoken to. I obviously do not speak for all the Celtic fans that walked out.

I feel that if the rememberance was just for WW1 & 2 i would have no problem. They were, in my opnion, legitimate wars and they had to be fought. But, the problem for me is that it is now a rememberance for ALL wars after the First World War. This is what i feel the problem is. I respect the soldiers. But i cannot remember them in good light as they fought in wars i am totally against. But if one day, which i know it will never happen, the Goverment who i feel are the real criminals in all this, turn around and say they were wrong to go into these countries and accept they are to belame, then i will go a memorial sevice every year. As it stands though, they think they were correct as always, the soldiers fought in a war which in my opinion was wrong, and so, i choose not to remember those. Though i do take time out to remember the men who died during the First and Second World Wars.

Another slating i predict!

Whilst I don't agree with your views I do respect you have the right to hold them.

I agree that it's the government's fault we are at war. Surely though you can see that it's not the soldiers' fault they are there? You say if Govenment admitted they were wrong you would "remember" them. The soldier who died does not change because of the reason the war was started or by who it was started. He is still someones son/brother/husband/father. He is still fighting for his country wether the war is just or not.

During the 2 mins silence you are not being asked to remember the war, you are being asked to remember the men and women that fell in them. It was only a small section of Celtic fans that spoiled it which surely means that most observed it or at least respected the right of others to do so.

I do not respect the enemy we fight in all these wars, but I respect their right to remember their dead.

[Scotty]

I feel that if the rememberance was just for WW1 & 2 i would have no problem. They were, in my opnion, legitimate wars and they had to be fought. But, the problem for me is that it is now a rememberance for ALL wars after the First World War. This is what i feel the problem is. I respect the soldiers. But i cannot remember them in good light as they fought in wars i am totally against. But if one day, which i know it will never happen, the Goverment who i feel are the real criminals in all this, turn around and say they were wrong to go into these countries and accept they are to belame, then i will go a memorial sevice every year. As it stands though, they think they were correct as always, the soldiers fought in a war which in my opinion was wrong, and so, i choose not to remember those. Though i do take time out to remember the men who died during the First and Second World Wars.

no slating .. you prefaced it well and made your point. I dont happen to agree with you for one simple reason, and you even included it in your post ...... I think you are blurring the line between the soldiers who are sent to a warzone and the government who decide where (and why) they are going.

For example ....

I did not agree with the second gulf war in Iraq as I feel that the UK and US governments manufactured it so that GWB could try to impress daddy and finish the job he stopped short of doing in the first (legitimate) one. The fact that the region is swimming in oil and his cronies all run companies that benefit from war helps too !!!!

When it comes to Afghanistan, I believe this one to be more justifiable. Bin Laden was being helped by the Taliban who were a reprehensible regime in their own right and as he perpetrated the 911 attacks, it was fair game to go after him or anyone who sheltered him.

In both cases, whether you support the wars or not, the soldiers of any nation who are killed are all worthy of remembrance. They may have chosen to enlist in the armed forces, but they did not choose to go to a foreign land and die.

If you want to slate the government(s) go right ahead but you can support the troops without supporting the war.

[Charles Bannerman]

I wonder if Dornoch Caley may be referring more specifically to the Irish War of Independence, or what the various shades of Republican opinion which exist appear to regard as a war from 1969 - 1994 or indeed to the present day, depending on how hardline Republican the viewpoint is?

One way or another, there is a contingent attached to Celtic which is rabidly opposed to anything to do with the British military. That has not been atypical of Ireland post 1921 where, for instance, the GAA for many years banned competition against representatives of the British forces or police.

However that kind of mentality has found its way over to Scotland as a result of Irish immigrarion etc etc.

But then, on the other side of the divide, we have the obscenity of the Orange Order (aka The BNP in Scotland) strutting its equally vile stuff on our streets.

To make things worse, both sets of disagreeable behaviours have attached themselves to the two biggest football clubs in the country - and have arguably made them a good deal bigger since they have acted as a kind of magnet for people with such views. In fact I often wonder how big Rangers and Celtic would be if the Irish Sectarian problem had not found its way into the fabric of life in Scotland?

The question therefore arises - how significant a factor have the religious and political problems of Ireland been (allowed to become) in the shaping of the nature of football lin Scotland?

That is why, and I have said this on these forums before, I find myself attracted to the view that we should simply have told the whole lot of them to clear off in 1921 and go away and sort out their own problems on their own patch.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Charles Bannerman

[DornochCaley]

I understand both your points. In a few more years, i will probably agree with you as i get older and wiser

Though at the present time, my feels are mixed towards it all and i try to interprate them to the best of my abilities. I respect the soldiers as most of them are just normal, working class people. But there will always be resentment for them due to some of the attrocities they have commited whilst supposed to be the ones gunning for peace. But as per usuall, its a minority that ruin it for all. :(

[DornochCaley]

I wonder if Dornoch Caley may be referring more specifically to the Irish War of Independence, or what the various shades of Republican opinion which exist appear to regard as a war from 1969 - 1994 or indeed to the present day, depending on how hardline Republican the viewpoint is?

One way or another, there is a contingent attached to Celtic which is rabidly opposed to anything to do with the British military. That is not atypical of Ireland where, for instance, the GAA for many years banned competition against representatives of the British forces or police.

However that kind of mentality has found its way over to Scotland as a result of Irish immigrarion etc etc.

But then, on the other side of the divide, we have the obscenity of the Orange Order (aka The BNP in Scotland) strutting its equally vile stuff on our streets.

To make things worse, both sets of disagreeable behaviours have attached themselves to the two biggest football clubs in the country - and have arguably made them a good deal bigger since they have acted as a kind of magnet for people with such views. In fact I often wonder how big Rangers and Celtic would be if the Irish Sectarian problem had not found its way into the fabric of life in Scotland?

The question therefore arises - how big a factor have the religious and political poroblems of Ireland been (allowed to become) in the shaping of the nature of football lin Scotland?

That is why, and I have said this on these forums, I find myself regretting that we had simply not told the whole lot of them to clear off in 1921 and go away and sort out their own problems on their own patch.

I dont think its like that tbh. Scotland would not be in the economic state it was in before the Recession if it wasnt for the Irish immigrants. Football and things like this should be kept as far appart as possible. But i belive its the narrow-mindedness of a minority of Scots that has made this sectarian problem escelate to the state it is in today. I dont condone anything which could intice sectarian hatered. The way i see it, eveyone should be entitled to their opinion, but there are people on both side who dont belive the other should be allowed to have theirs. And thats where the problem lis.

[Charles Bannerman]

Football and things like this should be kept as far appart as possible.

Indeed they should, but in practice they are not - to the extreme detriment of football.