Hillsborough Disaster

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

I cant believe it was 20 years to the day that those 96 poor souls lost their lives on what should have been a joyous occasion . Good luck to the families in the campaign for justice .

[+Gringo]

Aye, 20 years on and still no justice. I feel for those familes that lost loved one's. Good luck to them.

[Lady Madonna]

I watched the service held at Anfield live on Sky Sports today, it was incredibly moving and it obvious to see that after 20 years without any real justice the emotions of the families of the victims and the Liverpool fans are still exceedingly raw. I can only hope that they get justice soon, 20 years is too long.

I'll definitely be Sky +ing the documentary on the history channel tonight.

[SMEE]

I remember watching the drama unfold live on Grandstand. Was watching a bit about it on footie Focus last saturday....and its amazing how Kenny Dagleish has not aged at all in last 20 years!

[CaleyD]

I see on the news today that one of the Liverpool Players has been suspended for 14 days for "not showing respect" during the service by nudging the player next to him and smiling.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8005039.stm

What a crock of chit. It's bad enough that people are forced to stand there and pay tribute to something they may have no connection with or feelings about, but to then haul them over the coals for a nudge and a smile really is taking it far too far.

You then read other stories where fans interrupted a speech paying tribute/honour to the 96 who died and their families...and they are applauded for their actions.

The world's gone made!!!

[EWS]

I think it was more that it was during a video memorial to the 96.

[CaleyD]

It doesn't matter when it was....Firstly, I can't fathom how they work out that a nudge and a smile is disrespectful and secondly, why was shouting down the guy giving the talk more acceptable?

How many people in the stadium could hand on heart say that they stood still and silent for the entire memorial service, never once looked round at someone else or tried to get someone's attention? It's just another example of the press/media sensationalism because someone with a name might have done something they shouldn't have and they can get a few column inches.

It's also a further example of how the UK is sliding back into a society where we are all expected to conform without question to certain behaviours.

Total nonsense IMO.

[Johnboy]

Graeme Souness's interview/article in the Sun, shortly after he became manager there, was probably not one of his most thoughtful or sensitive decisions.

[MissICT]

I wasn't alive when this happened but I watched a documentary on it and I was practcally in tears.

Innocent people just layed on the pitch and passed away.

A lovely Sunny Aprils afternoon turned out to be such a nightmare and yet no one has ever been in trouble.

Edited April 18, 2009 by themann4thejob
sorted errors

[TheKnowledge]

I see on the news today that one of the Liverpool Players has been suspended for 14 days for "not showing respect" during the service by nudging the player next to him and smiling.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8005039.stm

What a crock of chit. It's bad enough that people are forced to stand there and pay tribute to something they may have no connection with or feelings about, but to then haul them over the coals for a nudge and a smile really is taking it far too far.

You then read other stories where fans interrupted a speech paying tribute/honour to the 96 who died and their families...and they are applauded for their actions.

The world's gone made!!!

Totally bang on!!! Why have I suddenly been engulfed with all this Hilsborough stuff? 442, when Saturday comes, world soccer, football focus, bbc, ITV, channel 4 have all wasted my time this week with this. I know it happened. We all do. We can think about it, or pay tribute any day we want. One of the guys on football focus last week said "it makes playing football seem so insignificant on a day like this". What? A day like this? You mean a Saturday? WTF? It's a horrible way to die but, why does no one critisise the fans at the back pushing to get in, and therefore making the police panic, and open the gates? People die everyday. How many soldiers died in WW2? How many people care? How many people died at Hillsborough? We ALL have to care. Total pish. There is so much imbalance in the world.

Chalres Intadje has done Fuk all wrong there but, because everyone is $hiting themselves incase they are accused of not doing the right thing, the club have to act. This is the same reason every media organisation has paid a tribute this week.

What about the Juve fans at Hysel?

Rangers fans at Ibrox?

Ivory coast fans?

[ICTBTTH]

I wasn't alive when this happened but I watched a documentary on it and I was practcally in tears.

Innocent people just layed on the pitch and passed away.

A lovely Sunny Aprils afternoon turned out to be such a nightmare and yet no one has ever been in trouble.

It is very hard to bring somone in front of a court accused of something like this. There was a number of factors that contributed to the disaster. The fact that police were still letting people in when it could be seen a mile off there was no room for anyone was yes probably a big factor but its hard to pin point the exact cause of the crush. Sure i wasnt alive at the time but from what i seen no one in particular was to blame for this.

Yes i agree with the next guy that the families deserve justice at least but there was bound to be a case like this when there was all standing stadiums and i for one am sorry that this had to happen for the authorities to take this decision. Ok it was easier to build stadiums like that back in the day but, and i really do not mean anyone any offence or that, am glad that that was the one and only time something like this could happen.

Edited April 28, 2009 by ICTBTTH

[AJS]

I watched a drama recreation of Hillsborough 2 weeks ago and i was almost reduced to tears by it.

What Itandje did was disgraceful. I hear he is transfer listed now.

Edited April 29, 2009 by ajsict92

[TomCaleyJag]

I see on the news today that one of the Liverpool Players has been suspended for 14 days for "not showing respect" during the service by nudging the player next to him and smiling.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8005039.stm

What a crock of chit. It's bad enough that people are forced to stand there and pay tribute to something they may have no connection with or feelings about, but to then haul them over the coals for a nudge and a smile really is taking it far too far.

You then read other stories where fans interrupted a speech paying tribute/honour to the 96 who died and their families...and they are applauded for their actions.

The world's gone made!!!

Totally bang on!!! Why have I suddenly been engulfed with all this Hilsborough stuff? 442, when Saturday comes, world soccer, football focus, bbc, ITV, channel 4 have all wasted my time this week with this. I know it happened. We all do. We can think about it, or pay tribute any day we want. One of the guys on football focus last week said "it makes playing football seem so insignificant on a day like this". What? A day like this? You mean a Saturday? WTF? It's a horrible way to die but, why does no one critisise the fans at the back pushing to get in, and therefore making the police panic, and open the gates? People die everyday. How many soldiers died in WW2? How many people care? How many people died at Hillsborough? We ALL have to care. Total pish. There is so much imbalance in the world.

Chalres Intadje has done Fuk all wrong there but, because everyone is $hiting themselves incase they are accused of not doing the right thing, the club have to act. This is the same reason every media organisation has paid a tribute this week.

What about the Juve fans at Hysel?

Rangers fans at Ibrox?

Ivory coast fans?

My Uncle died in the Hillsborough disaster and although it happened before I was born and I never met him, I find both of your comments deeply offensive.

The speech CaleyD is referring to their was by Culture minister Andy Burnham. It was interrupted as he forwarded the PM's promise not to forget the 96. The crowd reacted as that is really an empty promise given the 20-year fight for justice. Fortunately the Government has since ordered the release of all police files regarding Hillsborough, so the hope is something will finally be done about this.

With regards to Itandje, if you can't be bothered to sit there and keep your f*****g mouth shut for 20 minutes to pay repsect to 96 innocent people who had their lives crushed out of them, then you don't deserve to have any association with Liverpool FC. It is absolutely beyond me how people are on here defending his actions at a MEMORIAL SERVICE. How can you defend someone laughing and dancing around with a grin whilst families all around you, mourning the deaths of a husband, a dad, a wife, a son, the people closest to them. He was a DISGRACE.

"What? A day like this? You mean a Saturday?" - No. A day for remembering the ninety-six innocent people who died 20 years ago. That comment is extremely offensive. The 15th of April isn't just another day in the calendar for us. It might be easy to say "only" 96 people died that day, but each & every one of those 96 were people. They were individuals with families, loved ones. While the world might see one of them as just one of the 96, each one was to someone, their one. Their only husband, only son, only dad. You go and talk to their weeping families, and then tell me its just another day. Tell me then that 20 years on is "just a Saturday". Thats a disgraceful, offensive thing to say.

"Total pish." - You are a poor excuse for a human being.

Edited May 31, 2009 by TomCaleyJag

[TomCaleyJag]

It's also a further example of how the UK is sliding back into a society where we are all expected to conform without question to certain behaviours.

Total nonsense IMO.

Yes CaleyD, it is generally expected that whilst at a memorial service, one should refrain from making light of the fact that people have died, and refrain from showing disrespect, especially whilst the woman sitting infront of you lost her son at the disaster.

I can't believe you are publicly asking why one shouldn't behave like that at a MEMORIAL SERVICE. Its just respect. And if the UK has slidden away from that, I certainly welcome the slide back to it.

[TheKnowledge]

I see on the news today that one of the Liverpool Players has been suspended for 14 days for "not showing respect" during the service by nudging the player next to him and smiling.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8005039.stm

What a crock of chit. It's bad enough that people are forced to stand there and pay tribute to something they may have no connection with or feelings about, but to then haul them over the coals for a nudge and a smile really is taking it far too far.

You then read other stories where fans interrupted a speech paying tribute/honour to the 96 who died and their families...and they are applauded for their actions.

The world's gone made!!!

Totally bang on!!! Why have I suddenly been engulfed with all this Hilsborough stuff? 442, when Saturday comes, world soccer, football focus, bbc, ITV, channel 4 have all wasted my time this week with this. I know it happened. We all do. We can think about it, or pay tribute any day we want. One of the guys on football focus last week said "it makes playing football seem so insignificant on a day like this". What? A day like this? You mean a Saturday? WTF? It's a horrible way to die but, why does no one critisise the fans at the back pushing to get in, and therefore making the police panic, and open the gates? People die everyday. How many soldiers died in WW2? How many people care? How many people died at Hillsborough? We ALL have to care. Total pish. There is so much imbalance in the world.

Chalres Intadje has done Fuk all wrong there but, because everyone is $hiting themselves incase they are accused of not doing the right thing, the club have to act. This is the same reason every media organisation has paid a tribute this week.

What about the Juve fans at Hysel?

Rangers fans at Ibrox?

Ivory coast fans?

My Uncle died in the Hillsborough disaster and although it happened before I was born and I never met him, I find both of your comments deeply offensive.

The speech CaleyD is referring to their was by Culture minister Andy Burnham. It was interrupted as he forwarded the PM's promise not to forget the 96. The crowd reacted as that is really an empty promise given the 20-year fight for justice. Fortunately the Government has since ordered the release of all police files regarding Hillsborough, so the hope is something will finally be done about this.

With regards to Itandje, if you can't be bothered to sit there and keep your f*****g mouth shut for 20 minutes to pay repsect to 96 innocent people who had their lives crushed out of them, then you don't deserve to have any association with Liverpool FC. It is absolutely beyond me how people are on here defending his actions at a MEMORIAL SERVICE. How can you defend someone laughing and dancing around with a grin whilst families all around you, mourning the deaths of a husband, a dad, a wife, a son, the people closest to them. He was a DISGRACE.

"What? A day like this? You mean a Saturday?" - No. A day for remembering the ninety-six innocent people who died 20 years ago. That comment is extremely offensive. The 15th of April isn't just another day in the calendar for us. It might be easy to say "only" 96 people died that day, but each & every one of those 96 were people. They were individuals with families, loved ones. While the world might see one of them as just one of the 96, each one was to someone, their one. Their only husband, only son, only dad. You go and talk to their weeping families, and then tell me its just another day. Tell me then that 20 years on is "just a Saturday". Thats a disgraceful, offensive thing to say.

"Total pish." - You are a poor excuse for a human being.

Wrong, wrong and, er, wrong. You are letting personal emotion to get in the way of your writing. You can only really be offended, or not. Being extremely offended is the same as being offended, you can't get different degrees of it. I'm not a poor excuse of a human being, just not the human you think I should be.

What Caley D said was correct, the guy has no connection to the Hillsborough disaster. Absolutely none what so ever. He did next to nothing wrong but, because it's Hillsborough, everyone feels like the better make a fuss of it because, everyone is $hit scared of not being seen to do the right thing.

The government has done nothing for 20 years, but Andy Burnham has not been in the government for 20 years. This government has not been in power for 20 years so why booo him? Ah, I know, because it's the hillsborough anniversary, so we can treat people how we want, and say whatever we want about people (see above) and it's fine, because the media will back us up because everyone is so $hit scared of not doing the right thing.

Why does the Hillsborough disaster get so much attention every year? Reactions like yours are probably half the reason, everyone must be seen to do the right thing. There are many incidents involving huge loss of life happening all over the world, everyday, and all are equaly important. Anyone thats wants to mourn these, does so in their own way, without forcing the rest of us to watch it. It was just a Sataurday to me, thats the truth. All I wanted to do was watch football, and I refuse to fake any emotion, when I felt no more than I do every other time I hear of bad things happening to others.

Please dont attempt to launch personal attacks on people, its not what discussion is about and it can discredit the point you are trying to make.

Edited June 7, 2009 by TheKnowledge

[TomCaleyJag]

ONE - Wrong, wrong and, er, wrong. You are letting personal emotion to get in the way of your writing. You can only really be offended, or not. Being extremely offended is the same as being offended, you can't get different degrees of it. I'm not a poor excuse of a human being, just not the human you think I should be.

TWO - What Caley D said was correct, the guy has no connection to the Hillsborough disaster. Absolutely none what so ever. He did next to nothing wrong but, because it's Hillsborough, everyone feels like the better make a fuss of it because, everyone is $hit scared of not being seen to do the right thing.

The government has done nothing for 20 years, but THREE - Andy Burnham has not been in the government for 20 years. This government has not been in power for 20 years so why booo him? Ah, I know, because it's the hillsborough anniversary, so we can treat people how we want, and say whatever we want about people (see above) and it's fine, because the media will back us up because everyone is so $hit scared of not doing the right thing.

FOUR - Why does the Hillsborough disaster get so much attention every year? Reactions like yours are probably half the reason, everyone must be seen to do the right thing. FIVE - There are many incidents involving huge loss of life happening all over the world, everyday, and all are equaly important. Anyone thats wants to mourn these, does so in their own way, SIX - without forcing the rest of us to watch it. SEVEN- It was just a Sataurday to me, thats the truth . All I wanted to do was watch football, and I refuse to fake any emotion, when I felt no more than I do every other time I hear of bad things happening to others.

EIGHT - Please dont attempt to launch personal attacks on people, its not what discussion is about and it can discredit the point you are trying to make.

ONE - Possibly, although with things like Hillsborough it is very difficult to talk about it without it evoking strong emotion in me!

TWO - The woman infront of him lost her son at Hillsborough. Fans pay the players wages. You'd expect someone to be able to sit there, keep their mouth shut and show some respect at a memorial service anyways, much more so when she's paying his wages.

THREE - thats a poor argument. He's there now, he can do something. Booing a cabinet minister who occupied Burnham's position ten years ago won't solve anything! Showing Mr Burnham the strength of feeling about this could persuade him to act!

FOUR - Ask the media! Its not our fault if the media take an interest in it.

FIVE - I wouldn't dispute that for a second, but neither would i publicly (or privately) describe any attempt at memorial of such events as "pish".

SIX - No one forced you to watch it!

SEVEN- Thats fine, but 15th April isn't just another day of the week for us.

EIGHT - Please try and show some respect! These people may not have meant anything to you but they did to me and thousands of others. I understand your refusal to fake emotion - for example something like the tsunami - that definetly didn't make me happy, and it was a horrible thing to happen and i feel for those involved, but i didnt shed any tears - presumably this is your stance on Hillsborough. Thats fine, i understand completely. Where it becomes unacceptable as far as Im concerned is when you come on a forum like this and launch scathing attacks on what was a memorial service, and show complete disrespect for the dead and their families!

[cal234ey]

I'm sorry but nobody deserves to be punished. The police hardly intended it to go horribly wrong as it did. Do you really think they thought prople were going to die because of it?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Not a topic I get into as it infuriates me - As part of the Trauma Response I actually worked with the family of a victim from a wee village close to Chorley - There is far more to this than has been published. I evidently cant talk about it but feckin wish that I could.

That specific season I was following Everton and we went to Hillsborough on the Bank Holiday prior to the Cup game - ended 1-1 as I recall - I was in the same standing section behind the goal - and that day Everton fans broke through - or were allowed through a gate - and the standing lower section was packed. In retrospect there wasnt the same crowd there as I recall that many of us moved to the side to let the others in - but I can always remember worrying about the rush and that a crush would happen and being confined shoulder to shoulder like I hadnt been for many years.

That day the cops eventually let the lower section in to the neighbouring home stand and making a demarkation line - again that could not have happened at the disaster - Many Everton fans have pointed this game out since as it felt that the media were saying that it was a one off.

As far as I am concerned - it was an accident waiting to happen - but not in the scale that did.

And as the Toffees say - They werent just Scousers / Reds - They were football fans - There by the Grace of God etc. These were families that lost their loved ones, their "babies" - until you have been there you cant truly understand that.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Nobody deserves to get punished !!!! I'm sorry but thats just garbage . In any walk of life when you make as many " mistakes " as the police did that day you get punished and deservedly so . It doesn't matter if they intended for people to die the bottom line is that people did die as a direct result of the police actions .

[Johnboy]

What the police chief said at the time was that he did what he thought was right - and in everyone's best interests.

That's roughly what Tony Blair said about 3 years after the invasion of Iraq.

Of course all the police involved should be called to account for the decisions they took that day... if only to reduce the chances of anything like that ever happening again in the future.

[The Fly]

As far as I am concerned - it was an accident waiting to happen - but not in the scale that did.

Yep - the idea of caging fans in was the fundamental cause. When that was done it was only a matter of time before a disaster of some sort happened.

[Alex MacLeod]

As far as I am concerned - it was an accident waiting to happen - but not in the scale that did.

Yep - the idea of caging fans in was the fundamental cause. When that was done it was only a matter of time before a disaster of some sort happened.

Same sort of cages that, had they not been there, a large number of lives may have been saved at Bradford City.

As for Hillsborough, I believe a full investigation should take place and the matc commander on that day should be held to account for giving the order to open the gates. The police felt it would be easier to control the crowd by cramming them into the stand. They did not risk assess this action nor did they have any idea of crowd numbers. The man in charge on that day had the ultimate say in the way events turned out.

[Mr_W]

TomCaleyJag, I agree with you 100%. Well said my man.

David Duckanfield and his hordes have walked away from this unscathed, and whilst total blame cannot be with them, if we slaughter one set for their actions, then even the police should be slaughtered.

CaleyD, try telling the families of Dunblane the same thing. Although I have no connection whatsoever to the events that day, I still feel for them. Frequently.

I hope it never happens, but if you ever lose a loved one in similar circumstances, and at a memorial in their honour someone sniggers, will you take the same stance???

I think not.