The Real SPL Website

[westcoastdon]

Hi - I come in peace...

Check out:

http://www.therealspl.com

It is a fan's led initiative that came from an idea from another fans forum. The website went up less than 12 hours ago but the momentum is fantastic already. It is about building a better league for all the fans outside the OF.

If you like what we are saying, please tweet about us, like us on facebook etc.

This is just the start but we need your help to bring about change!

Come on .... Get behind this movement!

[TopSix]

Nice one WestCoastDon. Anything to work toward removing their influence from the game can only be a good thing IMO. We might even finish in the top six!

Edited April 24, 2011 by Top Six Next Year

[madsooz]

All for it! Anyhting that diverts attention away from the Old Firm is to be applauded. Incidentally over 11,000 at Dunfermline V Raith yesterday fans WILL turn out for competitive meaningful football whether the OF are involved or not.

[Iain]

All for it! Anyhting that diverts attention away from the Old Firm is to be applauded. Incidentally over 11,000 at Dunfermline V Raith yesterday fans WILL turn out for competitive meaningful football whether the OF are involved or not.

The other 10 teams in the SPL, excluding the Edinburgh derby, get their biggest home crowds against the OF so they really do have a massive influence on the amount of people that watch and attend scottish football games. Without them every other SPL team would get less people through the door, hence less money - we do benefit from their inclusion in the SPL so don't really get what this site is all about?

Edited April 24, 2011 by Iain

[madsooz]

All for it! Anyhting that diverts attention away from the Old Firm is to be applauded. Incidentally over 11,000 at Dunfermline V Raith yesterday fans WILL turn out for competitive meaningful football whether the OF are involved or not.

The other 10 teams in the SPL, excluding the Edinburgh derby, get their biggest home crowds against the OF so they really do have a massive influence on the amount of people that watch and attend scottish football games. Without them every other SPL team would get less people through the door, hence less money - we do benefit from their inclusion in the SPL so don't really get what this site is all about?

My point is that if teams have something tangible to play for then having the OF visit is not a prerequisite to attracting a large attendance. I think the SPL benefits from the OF because they attract TV money, but if they were to leave, teams such as Hearts, Dundee Utd, Motherwell etc would contest the title and many clubs attendances would increase overall IMO. Sadly not going to happen in the foreseeable!

[Oddquine]

All for it! Anyhting that diverts attention away from the Old Firm is to be applauded. Incidentally over 11,000 at Dunfermline V Raith yesterday fans WILL turn out for competitive meaningful football whether the OF are involved or not.

The other 10 teams in the SPL, excluding the Edinburgh derby, get their biggest home crowds against the OF so they really do have a massive influence on the amount of people that watch and attend scottish football games. Without them every other SPL team would get less people through the door, hence less money - we do benefit from their inclusion in the SPL so don't really get what this site is all about?

And if the SPL was a level playing field, and the OF were treated in exactly the same way as every other team, are you telling me that all their fans will stop supporting them, nobody will ever go to their games and the telly won't want to have them on it?

And do they not also benefit from their inclusion in the SPL.............or do you know offhand anywhere else in the world jumping up and down to have them play in their leagues? At least in the SPL they are getting a game.

That attitude is the one the OF relies on to maintain their position as the clubs who dictate to the SPL ......and there are far too many fans who believe the OF's PR.

[12th Man]

All for it! Anyhting that diverts attention away from the Old Firm is to be applauded. Incidentally over 11,000 at Dunfermline V Raith yesterday fans WILL turn out for competitive meaningful football whether the OF are involved or not.

Great turnout but it really is a case of winner takes all match so you would expect a good turnout.

The Old firm make a colossal amount of money from Home games,merchandise,hospitality,TV and will still make more money through progression in Europe.

Without the OF I could see SPL clubs having severe financial difficulties within 3 years with the belief that the extra investment in players will win/buy them the cup,exactly the same will happen in the 1st Div if 3 SPL teams join them as proposed.

Without the OF the TV money will be a paltry sum and the gate wont be as large, The top two clubs can budget for European games knowing that they will have another crack next season,our clubs would be knocked out of European cups sooner, the coefficient would change meaning only 2 clubs in Europe 1st place and the cup winner.

So without the OF

Positives

A far better chance of winning a cup and the hibernating fans turning up when things are going well so more cash at the gate.

Negatives.

The obvious first,losing out on larger gates and premium hospitality from the OF

The TV money will become a paltry sum.

Less government funding for the SFA.

Less commercial funding for our sport.

Less money available for final league placements.

Less money for winning a cup.

The European coefficient will drop to leave only 2 places.

Clubs will overspend to try and win the league.

Less media interest in Scottish football.

I hate to say it but we need the OLD FIRM

As for the Rangers fans and Celtic fans who spend their lives despising each other, without their opposition that they hate with a passion their own club would be thrown into turmoil.

[TopSix]

To less devoted fans of SPL clubs outwith the OF, what's the point in buying a season ticket then? They'll never see their club lift the trophy. In relation to the population, football attendances have always been higher than Wales, Ireland etc.

The OF isn't the be all and end all. Granted, they're at the top at the moment - but when you're at the top the only way is down. Look at the likes of Dundee, Aberdeen, Dundee United among others and what they've achieved in the past. While some posters think we need them, it's a two way situation. Takes more than two teams to make a league.

[CaleyD]

Talk of getting rid of any team is just nonsense, IMO. I don't have any particular fondness to one or other, but basing any campaign to improve the game in Scotland on trying to oust other teams is nonsense and only serves to detract from finding and implementing solutions that can and will work.....for everyone.

I'm not saying we need the OF, or any team for that matter, in order to have a viable and entertaining league. I'm also not of the opinion that without them the game would face financial Armageddon. The problem is not (primarily) the teams themselves, it's the system that allows them to bleed the game dry and leave everyone else fighting over scraps, it's the system that is geared around promoting and sustaining a duopoly to the detriment of all others and unless you change the system then you can remove all the teams you like but nothing will change and others will just move in to fill the void and the problems continue.

[PullMyFinger]

They're not talking of getting rid of the old firm just a fairer deal for all the other teams. It wouldn't take much of a change really, fairer distribution of revenue and a better league structure.

[CaleyD]

From their website.......

We have come to the conclusion that its time for major change. We the fans of Scottish Football have come together for the first time in order to promote our own league, The Real Scottish People?s League, (the Real SPL) from seasons 2011/12. The aims of the Real SPL are both ambitious and forward-looking. It is a league that is not scared to think of football in Scotland without the Old Firm. We are excited by the challenge of bringing back football to the fans, making football accessible, increasing crowds going to games on a weekly basis, improving the financial outlook of the teams we support, providing a fairer basis for all teams to compete, creating a more competitive league and increasing the interests of Scottish football throughout the world.

We understand that the Real SPL will not take over running the league from the SPL in the short-term. We have therefore, come to the decision to run in parallel with the SPL. The Real SPL will allocate points on the same basis as the SPL for games played but no points will be awarded when a team plays one of the Old Firm. These games will be deemed as ?friendly? against a team from a different league. The Real SPL will run from the start of the season until the normal SPL split. The team with the most points will then be awarded Champions of the Real SPL.

Looks pretty clear to me that they want to exclude them!!!

Totally short sighted on their part as if they took the time to listen to the OF Fans and not the OF Media Machine then they would know that the OF fans are as against a 10 team SPL as the rest of us.....seems rather bizarre that they would be so quick to alienate such a large proportion of those they claim to be campaigning for.

[PullMyFinger]

Apologies, I didn't read the article properly and assumed it was a fans campaign as opposed to a parallel league with no mandate or financial support. Waste of time and effort. Do we really need another tier to Scottish football?

[westcoastdon]

Apologies, I didn't read the article properly and assumed it was a fans campaign as opposed to a parallel league with no mandate or financial support. Waste of time and effort. Do we really need another tier to Scottish football?

Hi - this was posted by mistake... It is not our intention to get rid of any team... What you see is an evolving site with many people contributing and things got a bit chaotic at The Real SPL in the first week. We have taken this down as it does not represent our views and the supporters of the site.

Sorry about the confusion... we aint a well oiled machine at the moment!...

Have a look at the site now... http://therealspl.com - its got a new logo and the "incorrect" content was spotted and is now down.

One thing we are trying to do is get more "likes" on Facebook than the SPL. only 13,000 to go...

[CaleyD]

In order to do this, The Real SPL will run a virtual league in parallel with the SPL from seasons 2011/12 onwards. We will allocate points on the same basis as the SPL for games played but no points will be awarded when a team plays one of the Old Firm.

That's still excluding the OF.

You call yourself "The Real SPL" yet your entire idea/site is based around pretending two teams just don't exist...is that meant to be some kind of irony and I'm somehow missing the punchline?

The foundations upon which it is set will only serve to give the powers that be something else to use to undermine the word of the fans and anyone who tries to give it any kind of legitimacy will only serve to do more harm than good.

By all means, have your fantasy league. On that basis I think it will draw interest in terms of curiosity or novel distraction, but it is certainly not an idea on which to base any kind of serious campaign.

What Scottish football needs right now is for people to be putting their time and effort into campaigning for proper workable ideas and solutions to the problems being faced....a league without the OF is about as far removed from that as you can get right now.

[madsooz]

In order to do this, The Real SPL will run a virtual league in parallel with the SPL from seasons 2011/12 onwards. We will allocate points on the same basis as the SPL for games played but no points will be awarded when a team plays one of the Old Firm.

That's still excluding the OF.

You call yourself "The Real SPL" yet your entire idea/site is based around pretending two teams just don't exist...is that meant to be some kind of irony and I'm somehow missing the punchline?

The foundations upon which it is set will only serve to give the powers that be something else to use to undermine the word of the fans and anyone who tries to give it any kind of legitimacy will only serve to do more harm than good.

By all means, have your fantasy league. On that basis I think it will draw interest in terms of curiosity or novel distraction, but it is certainly not an idea on which to base any kind of serious campaign.

What Scottish football needs right now is for people to be putting their time and effort into campaigning for proper workable ideas and solutions to the problems being faced....a league without the OF is about as far removed from that as you can get right now.

Oh dear this has struck a raw nerve for some reason. Don't think the people behind this website are under any illusions that it IS just a fantasy league. What's wrong with that?

If it is a campaign it seems to me to be merely about trying to highlight the fact that the OF are not the be all and end all of Scottish football.

Presumably you think it's ok that Rangers and Celtic have constantly agitated to leave the SPL for well over a decade now, and no doubt would have already gone if anybody had actually wanted them. Such actions have undermined the viability of the SPL far more than publicising a league table without them in it would do.

[CaleyD]

madsooz, did you actually read the whole thread and look at the site before you posted?

[Oddquine]

In order to do this, The Real SPL will run a virtual league in parallel with the SPL from seasons 2011/12 onwards. We will allocate points on the same basis as the SPL for games played but no points will be awarded when a team plays one of the Old Firm.

That's still excluding the OF.

You call yourself "The Real SPL" yet your entire idea/site is based around pretending two teams just don't exist...is that meant to be some kind of irony and I'm somehow missing the punchline?

The foundations upon which it is set will only serve to give the powers that be something else to use to undermine the word of the fans and anyone who tries to give it any kind of legitimacy will only serve to do more harm than good.

By all means, have your fantasy league. On that basis I think it will draw interest in terms of curiosity or novel distraction, but it is certainly not an idea on which to base any kind of serious campaign.

What Scottish football needs right now is for people to be putting their time and effort into campaigning for proper workable ideas and solutions to the problems being faced....a league without the OF is about as far removed from that as you can get right now.

Oh dear this has struck a raw nerve for some reason. Don't think the people behind this website are under any illusions that it IS just a fantasy league. What's wrong with that?

If it is a campaign it seems to me to be merely about trying to highlight the fact that the OF are not the be all and end all of Scottish football.

Presumably you think it's ok that Rangers and Celtic have constantly agitated to leave the SPL for well over a decade now, and no doubt would have already gone if anybody had actually wanted them. Such actions have undermined the viability of the SPL far more than publicising a league table without them in it would do.

Certainly I was aware on clicking the like button that it was a virtual fantasy league. Virtual because they said as much and fantasy because the OF are still taking part in Scottish football and are not going to disappear any time soon. I like it because it will be interesting to see what the positions of the various clubs in a league without the OF would be......and it saves me having to work it out for myself.

In response to CaleyD....what has happened to date, bar the putting off of a vote until they think they can get the result they want, makes you even contemplate that the powers-that-be in the SPL are listening to or even interested in proper workable ideas and solutions to the problems being faced?

[CaleyD]

I feel like I've entered some mad parallel universe...either that or I'm getting something totally different on my computer when I visit the website than what others are getting.

[Scotty]

Oh dear this has struck a raw nerve for some reason. Don't think the people behind this website are under any illusions that it IS just a fantasy league. What's wrong with that? If it is a campaign it seems to me to be merely about trying to highlight the fact that the OF are not the be all and end all of Scottish football. Presumably you think it's ok that Rangers and Celtic have constantly agitated to leave the SPL for well over a decade now, and no doubt would have already gone if anybody had actually wanted them. Such actions have undermined the viability of the SPL far more than publicising a league table without them in it would do.

Nothing wrong with their site or their aim within their fantasy league, good luck to them, but FFS, the initial info posted on the site made it sound like it was an organisation which would lead a "real world" campaign to get the OF out of SPL football or at the very least run at the same level/tier as a 'real' league. Even if it was a real campaign, some of the verbage made it sound preposterous as well as pretentious to the extreme.

And I quote .....

• We have come to the conclusion that its time for major change.
  
• We have come together for the first time in order to promote our own league. If they mean providing a table that would show how the league finished without the OF, it has been done many times before on a casual basis by various sites and news organisations. Its hardly ground breaking.
  
• The aims of the Real SPL are both ambitious and forward-looking.
  
• It is a league that is not scared to think of football in Scotland without the Old Firm.
  
• We are excited by the challenge of bringing back football to the fans, making football accessible, increasing crowds going to games on a weekly basis, improving the financial outlook of the teams we support, providing a fairer basis for all teams to compete, creating a more competitive league and increasing the interests of Scottish football throughout the world. REALLY ? HOW ?
  
• We understand that the Real SPL will not take over running the league from the SPL in the short-term. So thats a long term aim is it ? If the writer seriously believed that then their head was so far up their arse that they could actually see the utter shi** they were talking !!!!
  
• We have therefore, come to the decision to run in parallel with the SPL. Bully for you. A mickey mouse league with no mandate running against another one which at least does have a mandate !
  
• The Real SPL will allocate points on the same basis as the SPL for games played but no points will be awarded when a team plays one of the Old Firm. These games will be deemed as “friendly” against a team from a different league. The Real SPL will run from the start of the season until the normal SPL split. The team with the most points will then be awarded Champions of the Real SPL.
  

At least now we know that this 'mission statement' was grossly over-exaggerated and all that it really is is a half-baked fantasy league that will have zero impact on the actual league itself !!! Its basically a fixtures/results table with games V the OF omitted rather than a campaign and therefore more like forum spam than any proper cause we can all get behind such StandUpSitDown or Show Racism the Red Card.

Good luck to them, hope the site works, not personally interested as I think it is codswallop but thats just my opinion. As for posting any more info on here, I would rather that not be the case ... We dont mind worthy causes or campaigns but this is just an unsolicited and thinly veiled advertisement for another site and therefore forum spam. If the owner wants to advertise it more, he can email us to find out our rates !

[cairngorm]

The Real Scottish People's League (The Real SPL

How can it be the "real Scottish peoples league" if the O.F are not included??

Are you saying the OF are not real people.

I think it will all end in tears

[madsooz]

madsooz, did you actually read the whole thread and look at the site before you posted?

Er, yes. More assiduously than you I suspect.

Scotty is absolutely right that the original statement on the website was, shall we say, a tad hubristic! But since when has it been off limits for anyone to poke a stick at the OF? I think CaleyD is assuming those of us who support the general tone of this website are taking it 100% seriously as some kind of blueprint for the league. Not the case. If it succeeds in raising the profile of the other 10 clubs in however small a way then I support it. That's all.

Probably time to draw a veil.....

[CaleyD]

If you are in any doubt that these guys think they are building something more than just a fantasy league then google "the real spl" and check out some of the conversations westcoastdon has been having on other sites/forums.

[TopSix]

There's a lot of old firm fans who would like to see their respective clubs leave the SPL. I wouldn't mind if they left.

[+MrCaleyjag]

I personally don't care too much for this site and that doesn't mean I am wrong, it's merely my opinion like everyone elses but there are clearly other agendas with the site other than just being a 'fantasy league' to see what it would be like without the OF. Look at the thread above and how much the OP changes his mind on what the site is about, why was this? I reckon because he was questioned about it and couldn't back it up so had to change it. Why have it in the first place if you don't want a league without the OF.

Rather than try and see where other teams would be in the league without the OF why not start questioning your own teams abilities and ambitions and ask them why they are in the position they are and not fantasize what life would be like outwith the OF. This to me is merely masking the problems that our game has and our clubs have. Like it or not they are not all down to the OF, the demise of Aberdeen is not the OFs fault, the inability of other teams to challenge is not down to the OF, the shoddy way the SFA is run is not the OFs problem, the lack of youth investment is not down to the OF, the list is endless.

I personally would rather come on here and talk all things ICT that actually will make a difference or are worth talking about.

[westcoastdon]

I personally don't care too much for this site and that doesn't mean I am wrong, it's merely my opinion like everyone elses but there are clearly other agendas with the site other than just being a 'fantasy league' to see what it would be like without the OF. Look at the thread above and how much the OP changes his mind on what the site is about, why was this? I reckon because he was questioned about it and couldn't back it up so had to change it. Why have it in the first place if you don't want a league without the OF.

Rather than try and see where other teams would be in the league without the OF why not start questioning your own teams abilities and ambitions and ask them why they are in the position they are and not fantasize what life would be like outwith the OF. This to me is merely masking the problems that our game has and our clubs have. Like it or not they are not all down to the OF, the demise of Aberdeen is not the OFs fault, the inability of other teams to challenge is not down to the OF, the shoddy way the SFA is run is not the OFs problem, the lack of youth investment is not down to the OF, the list is endless.

I personally would rather come on here and talk all things ICT that actually will make a difference or are worth talking about.

This idea started a week ago and was added to with many people's contributions from there! have a look at the original thread if you do not believe me.

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&sty=2&act=1&mid=2117748807

As with most ideas - it evolved! There is no agenda.... this would presume that we were organised.... . What you can see is an idea being discussed in an open forum, many people putting views towards it and it evolving in both the threads and on the site.. As the people who are running a "community" forum I would have thought that you would have backed that.... instead of using it as evidence of some sort of secret agenda!

As for spam? Usually, you get spam from a commercial site that is trying to make money! (can you tell us what your "commercial rates" are?)

If the site increases interest in the games and gets more people going to them and more revenue into the clubs - surely this is a good thing?

If there are issues that need to be addressed... and most fans in Scotland believe there are, why not instead of criticizing something that is trying to increase interest in the game... go and do something about it?