Chubbs

[Alex MacLeod]

a three word sentence 'got released today' brings about conspiracies and bad treatment and every other negative suggestion possible. Much like the Morrison story did when it came out.......until explained otherwise. Has any thought gone into the idea that maybe Andrew asked to be released to further his career elsewhere?

Another point I'd make is that there is a big gulf between U-19 and first team in SPL. Scrapping the U-21 and reserve league put paid to proper development. There is the odd player in Scotland that has made the grade to first team at U-19 but they are few and far between. All clubs will bring through a few but most have to let players go because they are not quite up to first team development and the clubs cannot afford to continue paying their wages. We have brought through Ross, Shinnie, Sutherland. We are investing in Morrison by sending him to Iceland. We also still have Polworth, Laing and Smith who could still come through. Its not only the players we have to look at its the positions they play. Perhaps we are well covered in Chubbs favoured position.

It must be a difficult thing but if players reach the age where they are not able to play in U-19 league then a choice has to be made as to what to do with them. Theoretically a manager could be faced with a group of sixteen or seventeen 20 year olds and places for only one or two of them. What can he do with the rest but release them.

Personally I believe we will see Morrison become a regular and possibly more of Polworth next season.

[bmhighland]

I agree that there is a big gulf between u19s and first team and there is no guarantee that these boys would break through. Again using Chubbs as an example there have been times this season when he's maybe been inconsistent (Celtic home springs to mind) but he's equally been unplayable at times.

If we were signing superstars I would have no problem with our youngsters being overlooked. The fact is, we are not. Instead we sign average players who's only motivation is to secure a better move elsewhere.

I've never felt less connected to a team than this season and I can only see that continuing if we continue with this 'strategy' of short term panic loan deals instead of home grown youth. Surely if given a chance the likes of Dale Gillespie would have performed better this season than some of the duds we've been subjected to. If this doesn't change we'll be here in two years time watching League 1 failures that Chubbs etc would run circles round.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Was it not so gratifying that there was such a prompt official response to the alleged Morrison rumour ?

[bmhighland]

Im not sure what an official response would add as I think actions say it all in this case.

The release of a young lad (especially local) is a real shame but its what this says about us as a club and the direction we are going in future that concerns me more.

Anyone who has seen much of Chubbs in friendlys, u19s, NoS cup games etc will know he is a ‘proper’ footballer. Attack minded, quick, loves to take on a full back, plays on the deck etc. However, at 5 ft 3ish he is’nt good in the air and can go missing in games when its lumped long. My fear is that his release says alot about TB’s approach and is a statement from him about the type of football we can expect in future.

[bauhaus]

Unbelievable, have heard that all of the older 19s have been released, apart from 1. And the one kept is the biggest suprise of the lot. Andrew Greig - released, Tom Smith - released, Jack Sutherland - released, Calum Dingwall - released, Martin Laing - signed.

Liam Polworth has another year as he is 17, one I dont know about is Kyle White, maybe oddquine can help us know about Kyle.

[Alex MacLeod]

Not unbelievable. If they are too old for next seasons U-19 league and not able to be fitted into the first team then what do we do with them? Had the SPL retained the U-21 league there would have been a place for all those lads. Every SPL team is in the same position on this one. Its a shame but thats the state of Scottish football.

[bmhighland]

It is unbelievable. With the proposed u20 league next season we are looking very thin on the ground and will end up playing most of the younger u19s who will undoubtedly struggle. With all of the current turmoil in scottish fitba, now more than ever is the time to give youth a chance. High wages for players who dont really want to be here is a dangerous game if we are to lose Rangers cash etc.

I would have expected Greig, Sutherland and Dingwall to have been kept on and I bet the combined cost to the club would be less than taking a winnall or knakpa which would make it well worth a punt.

Also, congrats to Martin Laing from what I've seen he's been really solid and puts in a huge effort every game. Might not be as gifted as a couple of those mentioned above but he's tidy, a real grafter and gives 100% so good luck to him, hope he can break through into 1st team asap

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Oh please gawd - when officially can this season end ?

[caleyboy]

Not unbelievable. If they are too old for next seasons U-19 league and not able to be fitted into the first team then what do we do with them? Had the SPL retained the U-21 league there would have been a place for all those lads. Every SPL team is in the same position on this one. Its a shame but thats the state of Scottish football.

Alex - this U21 league you keep harping on about hasn't been in existance for many, many years. It certainly hasn't been there since we first joined the SPL! I agree the RESERVE league should be re-introduced but to the demise of the U19's. There is just no value in what is costing a fortune.Sign kids who have REAL potential - not just numbers to make up a squad!

[Alex MacLeod]

Your right.....the U-21 league ended in season 03/04. The reserve league finished after 08/09 season. That league was a stepping stone for youngsters coming through. Now there is a big gap. The new U-20 set up may bridge it though.

[davie]

Why oh why are the club continuing to drag out the misery of this season with yet another potential miscommunication ? Without a statement and a rationale the conspiracy theories can only abound. They were not so slow in trying to defend the Gavin Morrison story were they ?

What "miscommunication"? the lad's been released. it happens at every football club in the land without hand wringing knicker wetters like you bleating on about misery. Get a life.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Why oh why are the club continuing to drag out the misery of this season with yet another potential miscommunication ? Without a statement and a rationale the conspiracy theories can only abound. They were not so slow in trying to defend the Gavin Morrison story were they ?

What "miscommunication"? the lad's been released. it happens at every football club in the land without hand wringing knicker wetters like you bleating on about misery. Get a life.

I was being serious. I applaud the club for the manner in which they quelled the rumours about Gavin Morrison. A more detailed statement would have acted in a similar manner for this and say Tokely and even Proctor. They made an admirable precedence but havent followed it up. Of course peeple are being released all the time as I suspect you have too.

[bmhighland]

I tend to agree that a statement about an individual being released would be pretty pointless but a more general statement from the club about our strategy signing players and bringing through youth could be expected after letting go all but one of the u19s. As its not the best PR for the club however I suspect they'll sweep it under the carpet.

Another point worth making here. Its fair to say that the u19 team carries alot of passengers and its very difficult for the better players to shine and prove their worth. On the odd occassion we've seen the likes of chubbs, martin laing and liam polworth mix with the 1st team (NoS cup final for example) they have been excellent. These opportunities are too few and far between imo

[caleyboy]

Let's put this to bed once and for all - The U19 league is a complete and utter waste of time! Our club should propose that the SPL or SFA scrap this league and re-introduce the RESERVE league where at least 6 players must be U21 (of which at least 3 are U19). It will save us money, give youth a REAL chance to learn from and play with better more experienced players and it will also give our fringe first ream players game time. Probably more important, it will stop these kids wasting their time and being given false hope that they will be full-time footballers earning a good living.

[ictchris]

The vast majority of our Under 19s end up getting released, the same with every other Under 19 squad in the country. This is the same every year.

[Yngwie]

And yet we still get the same outrage every year.

It's an emotive subject because your talking about shattering lads' dreams, and I guess it's likely that some of our forum members are friends/relatives of the players in question too.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Yngwie

[ICTPaisley]

It happens every year and always will, I remember when we released Tony Low and Lewis Mackinnon, two players i rated highly and played well for us whenever they got the chance. I seem to remember one season Lewis ended up our top scorer in pre season. Tony on the otherhand was released so wing king Darran Thomson could get his chance.

[lukemackay]

the step up from u19 to first team is to big. how many 18 year olds are actually likely to make it into the first team? shane sutherland, and gavin morrison are both players that have suffered because theyve not had much to do for 2 years. they arnt yet good enough for first team but theres nowhere for them to go. so what happens? they both get shipped off to elgin and iceland. costing the club money.

2 players with great potential are currently struggling because there is no reserve league.

[superteuchter]

Don't agree that the step up is too big - you see other teams blooding 18 and 19 year olds. The way Scottish Football is structured just now it's the only way forward. Of course its a big step but a few of the U19s including Chubbs who have been released could not be any worse than some of the players I have seen in the first team this season. As a local, I would much prefer to watch a local player be given a chance than yet another journeyman player from the lower English leagues be brought in. I worry for Caley next season - Hibs will be stronger and County have so much momentum heading into the new season.

[caleyboy]

Don't agree that the step up is too big - you see other teams blooding 18 and 19 year olds. The way Scottish Football is structured just now it's the only way forward. Of course its a big step but a few of the U19s including Chubbs who have been released could not be any worse than some of the players I have seen in the first team this season. As a local, I would much prefer to watch a local player be given a chance than yet another journeyman player from the lower English leagues be brought in. I worry for Caley next season - Hibs will be stronger and County have so much momentum heading into the new season.

The point is - the step up is too big for OUR players. Those getting a chance elsewhere are arguably far better than our lads.

[Alex MacLeod]

Think if I really tried I could probably count on one hand the number of 18 or 19 year olds getting a chance of regular starts in the SPL.

[CaleyD]

Since the demise of the reserve league I've not had the opportunity to see many of them play competitive matches so I can't comment on player ability or the merits of giving them extended contracts, but I often wonder if the backlash to these events is more intense than you see at other clubs because so many of these young lads are known to us personally.

That's not to say I don't think they should be signed longer...I actually think cutting players lose so readily before they reach early 20's is a risky business as they often haven;t fully developed physically or emotionally and it's more of a lottery than it should be.

I think that when you look at it fully you end up back at the wider problem with the setup in Scottish Football which doesn't promote or allow clubs/managers the means to bring more players through from U19/20 level to the first team squad.

[bmhighland]

superteuchter hits the nail on the head, would much rather see local lads given a chance than another season of english lower league duffers.

If we were signing good players at the expense of our young lads then fair enough but we aint

[ictchris]

I don't want to seem as though I'm denigrating our youth players or those who work with them but the fact is that none of the youth players who have been released have gone on to have a career at anything like a level approaching the SPL. We have a very difficult job with youth players, we don't have a massive budget and we don't have a big population centre as a catchment area. When you compare the historic level of youth players in our team to how many we have now we're actually doing pretty well - Nick Ross, Graeme Shinnie and Shane Sutherland are all regulars in the first team, and Ross and Shinnie are representing Scotland at Under 21 level.

[Renegade]

Stuart Armstrong was an ICT U19 (who's also local) who I believe was released when the club was relegated in 2009. He's now playing for Dundee United.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Renegade