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I have been disappointed and embarrassed with the early performance or non-performance of the SNP MPs in the HoP ( mostly childish pranks as far as I can see - pinching peoples seats, clapping against convention and hogging the bar - wow! what an impact  ).

 

I think we need a topic that follows and assesses their performance during the course of this Parliament to ensure they are held to account for their representation of their constituents and the Scottish people.  I am sure there are many swinging voters who will be watching with a keen eye to see if this tranche of MPs is effective and does any good.  If not many of these MPs could lose their seats at the next election.

 

I am keen to see them do well ( now that they are there ) and to see them perform at a level that will see Scotland being treated with the respect it deserves and in turn seeing all our MPs treating the rest of the UK with the respect that they deserve.

 

Have yet to see any one of the SNP MPS earn a Bouquet. Time will tell.

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Some punctuation, including sentences and the odd capital letter wouldn't go amiss. Seems, thankfully, according to the polls, that you and your many friends are in the minority.&#1

No Laurence, shame on you. Maturity in terms of years clearly doesn't equate to maturity in any other sense and, by the way,there's no need to shout ! In terms of being one of the f

Laurence, this publication, unless something drastic has happened to Scotlands electricity generation in recent months, suggests your point 3 to be absolute drivel. http://www.4coffshore.com/wi

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I have been disappointed and embarrassed with the early performance or non-performance of the SNP MPs in the HoP ( mostly childish pranks as far as I can see - pinching peoples seats, clapping against convention and hogging the bar - wow! what an impact  ).

 

I think we need a topic that follows and assesses their performance during the course of this Parliament to ensure they are held to account for their representation of their constituents and the Scottish people.  I am sure there are many swinging voters who will be watching with a keen eye to see if this tranche of MPs is effective and does any good.  If not many of these MPs could lose their seats at the next election.

 

I am keen to see them do well ( now that they are there ) and to see them perform at a level that will see Scotland being treated with the respect it deserves and in turn seeing all our MPs treating the rest of the UK with the respect that they deserve.

 

Have yet to see any one of the SNP MPS earn a Bouquet. Time will tell.

You sure you aren't Charles?  That is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect him to say.

 

Hogging the bar? Hadn't heard that one. Please elucidate.

 

Have heard that childish braying and mooing is more acceptable than polite clapping, unless, of course, the polite clapping is by Unionist MPs applauding Unionist MPs......can link you to a few youtubes which illustrate them doing just that in the House. The SNP will undoubtedly be braying and mooing in a Scottish Accent from now on, having had their knuckles rapped.  And others not SNP have gone the selfie route in the Chamber, before you mention that as if it was something new.

 

They didn't pinch anybody's seat, they just thought that, given the conventions, they should be entitled to sit in the seats which have always been used by the 3rd biggest party (once the Liberals) when in opposition. They are even going along with the convention that Dennis Skinner gets to sit where he always sits, even though there is usually heaps of room on the NuLabour benches for him.

 

Puzzles me why any punter would be incensed, when the majority of non-SNP MPs aren't that bothered. It seems to just be another opportunity for the media, and some Unionist MPs,  to continue repeating their SNP BAD mantra, in the hopes it sinks in before next May!

 

Surprised you haven't also mentioned that they aren't taking much notice of the convention that you don't actually turn up for debates, to do part of the job you are paid to do.and  that you don't eat chip butties and sit with the staff.

 

Westminster convention is that of a 17th century English Parliament, not a 21st century UK one.  More than the manner of electing the MPs to it needs to be changed.

 

Personally, I think Scotland's voice will be heard, and the SNP MPs will certainly have more influence, as they will get places on key committees, but whether that will do much for Scotland, or the UK, in the long run will depend on NuLabour, the SNP, Plaid etc backing each others' sensible amendments to bills, and the Tories having a few decent MPs who are prepared to rebel against Tory idiocy.

 

Seems to me that, provided they keep their noses clean, they are in a win/win situation...because they will always vote on what is best for the UK and for Scotland.and if that accomplishes nothing useful......well, that will be because all the other MPs have voted UK only, and it will just emphasise how much Scotland, in the great Westminster scheme of the doing the best for the UK/London, just doesn't matter.  And whichever way it turns out....there will be another referendum, but hopefully not in a manifesto until 2020.....and I'd not be surprised if it got a YES this time. .

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Surprised you haven't also mentioned that they aren't taking much notice of the convention that you don't actually turn up for debates, to do part of the job you are paid to do.

You mean sort of like Salmond during the several years he held on to both UK and Scottish parliamentary seats? Must have missed a whole lot of debates that way.

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Surprised you haven't also mentioned that they aren't taking much notice of the convention that you don't actually turn up for debates, to do part of the job you are paid to do.

You mean sort of like Salmond during the several years he held on to both UK and Scottish parliamentary seats? Must have missed a whole lot of debates that way.

 

What kept you ?

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A cup final?

 

On which subject, it was interesting at the Northern Meeting Park yesterday to note the amount of booing and moaning about the SNP that arose when Drew Hendry was introduced to the crowd.

This was a response which was quite out of kilter with this obviously good natured occasion.

The SNP may be riding high in the polls, but this is further evidence that, although they currently have support, they are also instensely and increasingly disliked, and this hostile reaction was another instance of the SNP being hoist by their own petard.

In effect the SNP's approach to politics has been increasingly divisive since the referendum was announced. Because not only do they continue to operate their well established "ya - boo" approach to politics, this also seems to have cross contaminated many people of other persuasions and hence deepened divisions within Scotland.

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Charles,

 

Do you not also think that the UK PM is creating division. Slagging off Scots, victimizing disabled people, austerity, not allowing people who have lived here for years to vote on the EU, and even creating a division between North and South in England. HoP needs to change, cant we be part of the start of change, to even get it up to the 20th Century. I million people using food banks in the whole of the uk is a disgrace for any party, and they want more austerity, yet cannot see the pain they are causing to many people. They should be ashamed,

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A cup final?

 

On which subject, it was interesting at the Northern Meeting Park yesterday to note the amount of booing and moaning about the SNP that arose when Drew Hendry was introduced to the crowd.

This was a response which was quite out of kilter with this obviously good natured occasion.

The SNP may be riding high in the polls, but this is further evidence that, although they currently have support, they are also instensely and increasingly disliked, and this hostile reaction was another instance of the SNP being hoist by their own petard.

In effect the SNP's approach to politics has been increasingly divisive since the referendum was announced. Because not only do they continue to operate their well established "ya - boo" approach to politics, this also seems to have cross contaminated many people of other persuasions and hence deepened divisions within Scotland.

Let me try to get this straight. Your argument is that the fact that a small number of people who clearly don't support the SNP chose a non political sporting celebration to inappropriately boo an SNP MP is entirely the fault of the SNP ? For goodness sake man, I know you detest the views of half of of your fellow countrymen and women but get a grip !

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A cup final?

 

On which subject, it was interesting at the Northern Meeting Park yesterday to note the amount of booing and moaning about the SNP that arose when Drew Hendry was introduced to the crowd.

This was a response which was quite out of kilter with this obviously good natured occasion.

The SNP may be riding high in the polls, but this is further evidence that, although they currently have support, they are also instensely and increasingly disliked, and this hostile reaction was another instance of the SNP being hoist by their own petard.

In effect the SNP's approach to politics has been increasingly divisive since the referendum was announced. Because not only do they continue to operate their well established "ya - boo" approach to politics, this also seems to have cross contaminated many people of other persuasions and hence deepened divisions within Scotland.

Let me try to get this straight. Your argument is that the fact that a small number of people who clearly don't support the SNP chose a non political sporting celebration to inappropriately boo an SNP MP is entirely the fault of the SNP ? For goodness sake man, I know you detest the views of half of of your fellow countrymen and women but get a grip !

 

My argument is that what has been the SNP's stock in trade for decades and which has intensified since the referendum was called has now begun to spread to non-SNP supporters as the SNP's overtly divisive behaviour has become more and more apparent.

Also, briefly, Bauhaus' post #6 is simply an example of the "them and us" type of rhetoric which has been fuelling the SNP's recent success.

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   Funny how Sturgeon's now backing off from the idea of full fiscal responsibility - because she knows it would blow a big hole in their finances - now saying (although it was in their manifesto) 'it will take years to implement' . Really how come they planned for it to take only 18 months after the referendum to become fully independent (in the event of a yes vote)?!? Maybe it has sunk in that even with £1 billion of Tory cuts they would still be much better off than going it alone. It seems to me that what they want is maximum power and minimum responsibility so when anything goes wrong they can still point the finger at Westminster. The SNP is basically like a spoilt teenager who likes to moan about mum and dad and decries 'oppression', yet still expects them to do his washing, feed him and pay his bills and his debts!

 

 

 

A cup final?

 

On which subject, it was interesting at the Northern Meeting Park yesterday to note the amount of booing and moaning about the SNP that arose when Drew Hendry was introduced to the crowd.

This was a response which was quite out of kilter with this obviously good natured occasion.

The SNP may be riding high in the polls, but this is further evidence that, although they currently have support, they are also instensely and increasingly disliked, and this hostile reaction was another instance of the SNP being hoist by their own petard.

In effect the SNP's approach to politics has been increasingly divisive since the referendum was announced. Because not only do they continue to operate their well established "ya - boo" approach to politics, this also seems to have cross contaminated many people of other persuasions and hence deepened divisions within Scotland.

Let me try to get this straight. Your argument is that the fact that a small number of people who clearly don't support the SNP chose a non political sporting celebration to inappropriately boo an SNP MP is entirely the fault of the SNP ? For goodness sake man, I know you detest the views of half of of your fellow countrymen and women but get a grip !

 

My argument is that what has been the SNP's stock in trade for decades and which has intensified since the referendum was called has now begun to spread to non-SNP supporters as the SNP's overtly divisive behaviour has become more and more apparent.

Also, briefly, Bauhaus' post #6 is simply an example of the "them and us" type of rhetoric which has been fuelling the SNP's recent success.

 

 

I actually clapped but it doesn't mean I like him or agree with him

But he now has a job to do  for everyone  not just his supporters.

He is not Rt. Honourable though as his introduction  indicated

That  title is for Privy Councillors only

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I actually clapped but it doesn't mean I like him or agree with him

But he now has a job to do  for everyone  not just his supporters.

He is not Rt. Honourable though as his introduction  indicated

That  title is for Privy Councillors only

 

I will ignore the first part of your post as,as usual, it's regurgitated arrant nonsense but you are absolutely correct in that Drew Henry is not a member of the Privy Council which, like the House Of Lords,does not have a single SNP member. The reason being that as a modern, progressive and, above all democratic party,they refuse membership of these archaic, unelected  bodies.

 

I would have thought that as a professed socialist and a democrat, that might have met with your approval.

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   Funny how Sturgeon's now backing off from the idea of full fiscal responsibility - because she knows it would blow a big hole in their finances - now saying (although it was in their manifesto) 'it will take years to implement' . Really how come they planned for it to take only 18 months after the referendum to become fully independent (in the event of a yes vote)?!? Maybe it has sunk in that even with £1 billion of Tory cuts they would still be much better off than going it alone. It seems to me that what they want is maximum power and minimum responsibility so when anything goes wrong they can still point the finger at Westminster. The SNP is basically like a spoilt teenager who likes to moan about mum and dad and decries 'oppression', yet still expects them to do his washing, feed him and pay his bills and his debts!

 

 

 

I actually clapped but it doesn't mean I like him or agree with him

But he now has a job to do  for everyone  not just his supporters.

He is not Rt. Honourable though as his introduction  indicated

That  title is for Privy Councillors only

 

How is she backing off from full financial responsibility?  Who is even offering full financial responsibility for her to back away from, pray tell....(I must have missed that one)? 

 

I thought that in the GE manifesto, all they pretty much said was that they would get as much as they could from Westminster to try to fulfill the VOW.

 

Or are you still mithering on about the referendum manifesto?  If so, the reason Salmond said 18 months was not to get Scotland out of all the joint UK encumbrances, it was 18 months to the Declaration of Independence, by which time they would have set up basic necessary departments and systems to cope with our own newly minted, much less complicated ideas, but still not have managed to finish extricating Scottish money from the ludicrously complex Westminster system. Those negotiations would have still been ongoing, and given the Westminster rhetoric, somewhat difficult and acrimonious.and long-winded.

 

Any financial devolution within the UK is not simple and does not allow the same level of tearing idiocy up and doing sensible as independence would. After all, there was a bill in 2012 giving Scotland some very small measure of devolution, and of some income tax and two small tax incomes, stamp duty and landfill.......and Stamp duty and landfill has only come in in 2015 (that's three years, btw.....and it is going to be 2016 before the income tax rasing is applied (and that is four years).  Anything in the new Scotland Bill, whatever is in it, is not going to be applied much before 2020......which is five years from now.

 

Laurence, like being in the House of Lords, being a Privy Councillor is a job for life.so Alex Salmond is one, just as Henry McLeish and Jack MacConnell are, and as is Nicola Sturgeon.......and for the same reason, the men have been First Minister of Scotland and the other is now the FM.

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After all, there was a bill in 2012 giving Scotland some very small measure of devolution, and of some income tax and two small tax incomes, stamp duty and landfill

From its inception in 1999, and long before the 2012 legislation, the Scottish Parliament had "tax varying powers" which allowed it to vary the UK rate by up to 3% in either direction. Administrations up to 2007 never felt the need to use this, but I wonder why the SNP didn't jump on it when they came to power? We certainly heard a whole lot of whingeing from them about "tight settlements from Westminster" - presumably because Westminster wanted to keep tax rates down - allegedly restricting public spending and services in Scotland. But if shortage of cash was an issue then if the SNP wanted better public services, the obvious remedy to increase income tax was in their hands, but they have never used it.

This rather looks like another case of the SNP not actually being quite as keen to use powers as they are simply to have them. A wee bit like our paranoid nationalist chum in Dingwall who now must be at day.. 259 is it without their extra powers?

It was a similar scenario with child care. The SNP already have means of improving that, but we were told that they didn't want to do this because the extra GDP generated would end up in the UK Treasury.

Now there's a wonderful case of cutting your nose off to spite your face where the women and families of Scotland have had to suffer for the sake of SNP electioneering, dogma and pigheadedness.

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   Funny how Sturgeon's now backing off from the idea of full fiscal responsibility - because she knows it would blow a big hole in their finances - now saying (although it was in their manifesto) 'it will take years to implement' . Really how come they planned for it to take only 18 months after the referendum to become fully independent (in the event of a yes vote)?!? Maybe it has sunk in that even with £1 billion of Tory cuts they would still be much better off than going it alone. It seems to me that what they want is maximum power and minimum responsibility so when anything goes wrong they can still point the finger at Westminster. The SNP is basically like a spoilt teenager who likes to moan about mum and dad and decries 'oppression', yet still expects them to do his washing, feed him and pay his bills and his debts!

 

 

 

I actually clapped but it doesn't mean I like him or agree with him

But he now has a job to do  for everyone  not just his supporters.

He is not Rt. Honourable though as his introduction  indicated

That  title is for Privy Councillors only

 

How is she backing off from full financial responsibility?  Who is even offering full financial responsibility for her to back away from, pray tell....(I must have missed that one)? 

 

I thought that in the GE manifesto, all they pretty much said was that they would get as much as they could from Westminster to try to fulfill the VOW.

 

Or are you still mithering on about the referendum manifesto?  If so, the reason Salmond said 18 months was not to get Scotland out of all the joint UK encumbrances, it was 18 months to the Declaration of Independence, by which time they would have set up basic necessary departments and systems to cope with our own newly minted, much less complicated ideas, but still not have managed to finish extricating Scottish money from the ludicrously complex Westminster system. Those negotiations would have still been ongoing, and given the Westminster rhetoric, somewhat difficult and acrimonious.and long-winded.

 

Any financial devolution within the UK is not simple and does not allow the same level of tearing idiocy up and doing sensible as independence would. After all, there was a bill in 2012 giving Scotland some very small measure of devolution, and of some income tax and two small tax incomes, stamp duty and landfill.......and Stamp duty and landfill has only come in in 2015 (that's three years, btw.....and it is going to be 2016 before the income tax rasing is applied (and that is four years).  Anything in the new Scotland Bill, whatever is in it, is not going to be applied much before 2020......which is five years from now.

 

Laurence, like being in the House of Lords, being a Privy Councillor is a job for life.so Alex Salmond is one, just as Henry McLeish and Jack MacConnell are, and as is Nicola Sturgeon.......and for the same reason, the men have been First Minister of Scotland and the other is now the FM.

 

Big Deal So you think it right to be introduced as rt. Honourable when you have only had a mandate for less than a month

You would argue black is white if the SNP said so. If Sturgeon shouted jump we would have to pull you off the ceiling.

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From where I was on Sunday (and somebody else made this point who was elsewhere in the crowd to me as well), Drew Hendry actually got one of the biggest cheers of the lot.  He didn't get a 'hostile reception' at all.  If anything, quite the opposite.

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Big Deal So you think it right to be introduced as rt. Honourable when you have only had a mandate for less than a month

 

Who cares?  It was a celebratory event.  I think everyone else there would've forgotten how he was introduced by now until you brought it up and even if they did remember, simply wouldn't care..........like any normal person.

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   Funny how Sturgeon's now backing off from the idea of full fiscal responsibility - because she knows it would blow a big hole in their finances - now saying (although it was in their manifesto) 'it will take years to implement' . Really how come they planned for it to take only 18 months after the referendum to become fully independent (in the event of a yes vote)?!? Maybe it has sunk in that even with £1 billion of Tory cuts they would still be much better off than going it alone. It seems to me that what they want is maximum power and minimum responsibility so when anything goes wrong they can still point the finger at Westminster. The SNP is basically like a spoilt teenager who likes to moan about mum and dad and decries 'oppression', yet still expects them to do his washing, feed him and pay his bills and his debts!

 

 

 

I actually clapped but it doesn't mean I like him or agree with him

But he now has a job to do  for everyone  not just his supporters.

He is not Rt. Honourable though as his introduction  indicated

That  title is for Privy Councillors only

 

How is she backing off from full financial responsibility?  Who is even offering full financial responsibility for her to back away from, pray tell....(I must have missed that one)? 

 

I thought that in the GE manifesto, all they pretty much said was that they would get as much as they could from Westminster to try to fulfill the VOW.

 

Or are you still mithering on about the referendum manifesto?  If so, the reason Salmond said 18 months was not to get Scotland out of all the joint UK encumbrances, it was 18 months to the Declaration of Independence, by which time they would have set up basic necessary departments and systems to cope with our own newly minted, much less complicated ideas, but still not have managed to finish extricating Scottish money from the ludicrously complex Westminster system. Those negotiations would have still been ongoing, and given the Westminster rhetoric, somewhat difficult and acrimonious.and long-winded.

 

Any financial devolution within the UK is not simple and does not allow the same level of tearing idiocy up and doing sensible as independence would. After all, there was a bill in 2012 giving Scotland some very small measure of devolution, and of some income tax and two small tax incomes, stamp duty and landfill.......and Stamp duty and landfill has only come in in 2015 (that's three years, btw.....and it is going to be 2016 before the income tax rasing is applied (and that is four years).  Anything in the new Scotland Bill, whatever is in it, is not going to be applied much before 2020......which is five years from now.

 

Laurence, like being in the House of Lords, being a Privy Councillor is a job for life.so Alex Salmond is one, just as Henry McLeish and Jack MacConnell are, and as is Nicola Sturgeon.......and for the same reason, the men have been First Minister of Scotland and the other is now the FM.

 

Big Deal So you think it right to be introduced as rt. Honourable when you have only had a mandate for less than a month

You would argue black is white if the SNP said so. If Sturgeon shouted jump we would have to pull you off the ceiling.

 

Laurence, every MP who was handed a qualifying job in government when the first Cabinet was chosen after 4 days is now a Privy Councillor. If it took Nicola a month to be appointed, the establishment dragged their feet.( I am assuming that it is Nicola you are talking about, because Alex Salmond has been a Privy Councillor since 2007....two years less than Cameron and a few days longer than Milliband, in fact).  If you want to make a point, better to do some research first, don't you think?

 

You obviously don't know me very well.  I am not a member of the SNP, and don't support them if I think they are wrong, but as you only read me on here, where most of my posts are defending pro-indy voters, the Scottish Government, and therefore the SNP,  from the snide comments, misrepresentation and bile posted by some Unionists members, you won't be aware of that. Elsewhere, where the debate is a little less polarised and nasty.and more like a debate, I do and have criticised the SNP.

 

The problem on here is that it is a very rare occurrence when someone actually makes a calm collected post criticising the actions of the Scottish Government with reasoned and cogent argument (and I don't have much hopes of that changing when it comes to the actions of the SNP MPs in Westminster), so I respond to the tone of what I read......and if all the posts continue to be variations on the eternal theme of SNP BAD, whether that is being applied to all of we YES voters, regardless of our politics, or the Scottish Government/MPs then of course I am going to post saying why SNP BAD is not an argument, which I accept to someone with an irrational bias against the SNP may well come across as If Sturgeon shouted jump we would have to pull you off the ceiling. 

 

Out of interest, have you ever made a calm collected post criticising the actions of the Scottish Government/SNP with reasoned and cogent argument?  If so, can you link me to it? 

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   Funny how Sturgeon's now backing off from the idea of full fiscal responsibility - because she knows it would blow a big hole in their finances - now saying (although it was in their manifesto) 'it will take years to implement' . Really how come they planned for it to take only 18 months after the referendum to become fully independent (in the event of a yes vote)?!? Maybe it has sunk in that even with £1 billion of Tory cuts they would still be much better off than going it alone. It seems to me that what they want is maximum power and minimum responsibility so when anything goes wrong they can still point the finger at Westminster. The SNP is basically like a spoilt teenager who likes to moan about mum and dad and decries 'oppression', yet still expects them to do his washing, feed him and pay his bills and his debts!

 

 

 

I actually clapped but it doesn't mean I like him or agree with him

But he now has a job to do  for everyone  not just his supporters.

He is not Rt. Honourable though as his introduction  indicated

That  title is for Privy Councillors only

 

How is she backing off from full financial responsibility?  Who is even offering full financial responsibility for her to back away from, pray tell....(I must have missed that one)? 

 

I thought that in the GE manifesto, all they pretty much said was that they would get as much as they could from Westminster to try to fulfill the VOW.

 

Or are you still mithering on about the referendum manifesto?  If so, the reason Salmond said 18 months was not to get Scotland out of all the joint UK encumbrances, it was 18 months to the Declaration of Independence, by which time they would have set up basic necessary departments and systems to cope with our own newly minted, much less complicated ideas, but still not have managed to finish extricating Scottish money from the ludicrously complex Westminster system. Those negotiations would have still been ongoing, and given the Westminster rhetoric, somewhat difficult and acrimonious.and long-winded.

 

Any financial devolution within the UK is not simple and does not allow the same level of tearing idiocy up and doing sensible as independence would. After all, there was a bill in 2012 giving Scotland some very small measure of devolution, and of some income tax and two small tax incomes, stamp duty and landfill.......and Stamp duty and landfill has only come in in 2015 (that's three years, btw.....and it is going to be 2016 before the income tax rasing is applied (and that is four years).  Anything in the new Scotland Bill, whatever is in it, is not going to be applied much before 2020......which is five years from now.

 

Laurence, like being in the House of Lords, being a Privy Councillor is a job for life.so Alex Salmond is one, just as Henry McLeish and Jack MacConnell are, and as is Nicola Sturgeon.......and for the same reason, the men have been First Minister of Scotland and the other is now the FM.

 

Big Deal So you think it right to be introduced as rt. Honourable when you have only had a mandate for less than a month

You would argue black is white if the SNP said so. If Sturgeon shouted jump we would have to pull you off the ceiling.

 

Laurence, every MP who was handed a qualifying job in government when the first Cabinet was chosen after 4 days is now a Privy Councillor. If it took Nicola a month to be appointed, the establishment dragged their feet.( I am assuming that it is Nicola you are talking about, because Alex Salmond has been a Privy Councillor since 2007....two years less than Cameron and a few days longer than Milliband, in fact).  If you want to make a point, better to do some research first, don't you think?

 

You obviously don't know me very well.  I am not a member of the SNP, and don't support them if I think they are wrong, but as you only read me on here, where most of my posts are defending pro-indy voters, the Scottish Government, and therefore the SNP,  from the snide comments, misrepresentation and bile posted by some Unionists members, you won't be aware of that. Elsewhere, where the debate is a little less polarised and nasty.and more like a debate, I do and have criticised the SNP.

 

The problem on here is that it is a very rare occurrence when someone actually makes a calm collected post criticising the actions of the Scottish Government with reasoned and cogent argument (and I don't have much hopes of that changing when it comes to the actions of the SNP MPs in Westminster), so I respond to the tone of what I read......and if all the posts continue to be variations on the eternal theme of SNP BAD, whether that is being applied to all of we YES voters, regardless of our politics, or the Scottish Government/MPs then of course I am going to post saying why SNP BAD is not an argument, which I accept to someone with an irrational bias against the SNP may well come across as If Sturgeon shouted jump we would have to pull you off the ceiling. 

 

Out of interest, have you ever made a calm collected post criticising the actions of the Scottish Government/SNP with reasoned and cogent argument?  If so, can you link me to it? 

 

Big Deal

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   Funny how Sturgeon's now backing off from the idea of full fiscal responsibility - because she knows it would blow a big hole in their finances - now saying (although it was in their manifesto) 'it will take years to implement' . Really how come they planned for it to take only 18 months after the referendum to become fully independent (in the event of a yes vote)?!? Maybe it has sunk in that even with £1 billion of Tory cuts they would still be much better off than going it alone. It seems to me that what they want is maximum power and minimum responsibility so when anything goes wrong they can still point the finger at Westminster. The SNP is basically like a spoilt teenager who likes to moan about mum and dad and decries 'oppression', yet still expects them to do his washing, feed him and pay his bills and his debts!

 

 

 

I actually clapped but it doesn't mean I like him or agree with him

But he now has a job to do  for everyone  not just his supporters.

He is not Rt. Honourable though as his introduction  indicated

That  title is for Privy Councillors only

 

How is she backing off from full financial responsibility?  Who is even offering full financial responsibility for her to back away from, pray tell....(I must have missed that one)? 

 

I thought that in the GE manifesto, all they pretty much said was that they would get as much as they could from Westminster to try to fulfill the VOW.

 

Or are you still mithering on about the referendum manifesto?  If so, the reason Salmond said 18 months was not to get Scotland out of all the joint UK encumbrances, it was 18 months to the Declaration of Independence, by which time they would have set up basic necessary departments and systems to cope with our own newly minted, much less complicated ideas, but still not have managed to finish extricating Scottish money from the ludicrously complex Westminster system. Those negotiations would have still been ongoing, and given the Westminster rhetoric, somewhat difficult and acrimonious.and long-winded.

 

Any financial devolution within the UK is not simple and does not allow the same level of tearing idiocy up and doing sensible as independence would. After all, there was a bill in 2012 giving Scotland some very small measure of devolution, and of some income tax and two small tax incomes, stamp duty and landfill.......and Stamp duty and landfill has only come in in 2015 (that's three years, btw.....and it is going to be 2016 before the income tax rasing is applied (and that is four years).  Anything in the new Scotland Bill, whatever is in it, is not going to be applied much before 2020......which is five years from now.

 

Laurence, like being in the House of Lords, being a Privy Councillor is a job for life.so Alex Salmond is one, just as Henry McLeish and Jack MacConnell are, and as is Nicola Sturgeon.......and for the same reason, the men have been First Minister of Scotland and the other is now the FM.

 

Big Deal So you think it right to be introduced as rt. Honourable when you have only had a mandate for less than a month

You would argue black is white if the SNP said so. If Sturgeon shouted jump we would have to pull you off the ceiling.

 

Laurence, every MP who was handed a qualifying job in government when the first Cabinet was chosen after 4 days is now a Privy Councillor. If it took Nicola a month to be appointed, the establishment dragged their feet.( I am assuming that it is Nicola you are talking about, because Alex Salmond has been a Privy Councillor since 2007....two years less than Cameron and a few days longer than Milliband, in fact).  If you want to make a point, better to do some research first, don't you think?

 

You obviously don't know me very well.  I am not a member of the SNP, and don't support them if I think they are wrong, but as you only read me on here, where most of my posts are defending pro-indy voters, the Scottish Government, and therefore the SNP,  from the snide comments, misrepresentation and bile posted by some Unionists members, you won't be aware of that. Elsewhere, where the debate is a little less polarised and nasty.and more like a debate, I do and have criticised the SNP.

 

The problem on here is that it is a very rare occurrence when someone actually makes a calm collected post criticising the actions of the Scottish Government with reasoned and cogent argument (and I don't have much hopes of that changing when it comes to the actions of the SNP MPs in Westminster), so I respond to the tone of what I read......and if all the posts continue to be variations on the eternal theme of SNP BAD, whether that is being applied to all of we YES voters, regardless of our politics, or the Scottish Government/MPs then of course I am going to post saying why SNP BAD is not an argument, which I accept to someone with an irrational bias against the SNP may well come across as If Sturgeon shouted jump we would have to pull you off the ceiling. 

 

Out of interest, have you ever made a calm collected post criticising the actions of the Scottish Government/SNP with reasoned and cogent argument?  If so, can you link me to it? 

 

Big Deal

 

Yet another reasoned and cogent Unionist response. :rolleyes:

 

Edited to add a completely O/T observation......I was looking through the EDMs on the Parliament Website, and I see ICT has been congratulated on its achievements this season....and that EDM has more signatories than the one on the Official Secrets Act and Child Abuse....and a lot more than the ones about the bravery of the soldiers who died in Afghanistan.   Go figure!

Edited by Oddquine
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No matter what you think of the SNP, booing Drew Hendry at the northern meeting park is a piece of nonsense. You won't meet a nicer man in local politics. 

 

Some are making it sound like the whole place booed him.  Utter nonsense.  As I said before, he got a massive cheer.

 

If one or two saddos did boo him though then they are classless and should hang their heads in shame.

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   Funny how Sturgeon's now backing off from the idea of full fiscal responsibility - because she knows it would blow a big hole in their finances - now saying (although it was in their manifesto) 'it will take years to implement' . Really how come they planned for it to take only 18 months after the referendum to become fully independent (in the event of a yes vote)?!? Maybe it has sunk in that even with £1 billion of Tory cuts they would still be much better off than going it alone. It seems to me that what they want is maximum power and minimum responsibility so when anything goes wrong they can still point the finger at Westminster. The SNP is basically like a spoilt teenager who likes to moan about mum and dad and decries 'oppression', yet still expects them to do his washing, feed him and pay his bills and his debts!

 

 

 

I actually clapped but it doesn't mean I like him or agree with him

But he now has a job to do  for everyone  not just his supporters.

He is not Rt. Honourable though as his introduction  indicated

That  title is for Privy Councillors only

 

How is she backing off from full financial responsibility?  Who is even offering full financial responsibility for her to back away from, pray tell....(I must have missed that one)? 

 

I thought that in the GE manifesto, all they pretty much said was that they would get as much as they could from Westminster to try to fulfill the VOW.

 

Or are you still mithering on about the referendum manifesto?  If so, the reason Salmond said 18 months was not to get Scotland out of all the joint UK encumbrances, it was 18 months to the Declaration of Independence, by which time they would have set up basic necessary departments and systems to cope with our own newly minted, much less complicated ideas, but still not have managed to finish extricating Scottish money from the ludicrously complex Westminster system. Those negotiations would have still been ongoing, and given the Westminster rhetoric, somewhat difficult and acrimonious.and long-winded.

 

Any financial devolution within the UK is not simple and does not allow the same level of tearing idiocy up and doing sensible as independence would. After all, there was a bill in 2012 giving Scotland some very small measure of devolution, and of some income tax and two small tax incomes, stamp duty and landfill.......and Stamp duty and landfill has only come in in 2015 (that's three years, btw.....and it is going to be 2016 before the income tax rasing is applied (and that is four years).  Anything in the new Scotland Bill, whatever is in it, is not going to be applied much before 2020......which is five years from now.

 

Laurence, like being in the House of Lords, being a Privy Councillor is a job for life.so Alex Salmond is one, just as Henry McLeish and Jack MacConnell are, and as is Nicola Sturgeon.......and for the same reason, the men have been First Minister of Scotland and the other is now the FM.

 

Big Deal So you think it right to be introduced as rt. Honourable when you have only had a mandate for less than a month

You would argue black is white if the SNP said so. If Sturgeon shouted jump we would have to pull you off the ceiling.

 

Laurence, every MP who was handed a qualifying job in government when the first Cabinet was chosen after 4 days is now a Privy Councillor. If it took Nicola a month to be appointed, the establishment dragged their feet.( I am assuming that it is Nicola you are talking about, because Alex Salmond has been a Privy Councillor since 2007....two years less than Cameron and a few days longer than Milliband, in fact).  If you want to make a point, better to do some research first, don't you think?

 

You obviously don't know me very well.  I am not a member of the SNP, and don't support them if I think they are wrong, but as you only read me on here, where most of my posts are defending pro-indy voters, the Scottish Government, and therefore the SNP,  from the snide comments, misrepresentation and bile posted by some Unionists members, you won't be aware of that. Elsewhere, where the debate is a little less polarised and nasty.and more like a debate, I do and have criticised the SNP.

 

The problem on here is that it is a very rare occurrence when someone actually makes a calm collected post criticising the actions of the Scottish Government with reasoned and cogent argument (and I don't have much hopes of that changing when it comes to the actions of the SNP MPs in Westminster), so I respond to the tone of what I read......and if all the posts continue to be variations on the eternal theme of SNP BAD, whether that is being applied to all of we YES voters, regardless of our politics, or the Scottish Government/MPs then of course I am going to post saying why SNP BAD is not an argument, which I accept to someone with an irrational bias against the SNP may well come across as If Sturgeon shouted jump we would have to pull you off the ceiling. 

 

Out of interest, have you ever made a calm collected post criticising the actions of the Scottish Government/SNP with reasoned and cogent argument?  If so, can you link me to it? 

 

There is little point in asking Laurence for a reasoned and cogent response on anything. Even a basic grasp of grammar and spelling seems to be beyond him. In fairness, however he is very adept at posting links and an authority on the matter of stadia time pieces.

Edited by Kingsmills
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New SNP surge!!!! Must be doing something right. Something like 8% of 18-25 year olds would vote Labour, looks like the unionist parties' days are numbered.:cheer01:

 

SNP welcome unprecedented poll ratings

Tue, 09/06/2015 - 12:45
 

The SNP is today welcoming a TNS poll on Holyrood voting intentions showing support for the SNP at 60 per cent on the constituency vote and 50 per cent on the regional list vote.

With a 41 per cent lead over Labour in the constituency vote and a 31 per cent lead in the regional list, this is an unprecedented rating after more than eight years in government – indicating strong approval of the SNP’s policy delivery.

The poll also highlights the need for a distinctively Scottish voice in the EU referendum debate, setting out the positive case for continued EU membership - it finds that 49 per cent in Scotland would vote to stay in the EU, just 19 per cent would vote to leave, and 26 per cent were undecided.

Since coming to office in 2007, the SNP has frozen council tax, protected free Higher Education, scrapped prescription charges, protected Free Personal Care, maintained the concessionary travel scheme, introduced a Living Wage – now £7.85 per hour – for public sector workers, increased Scotland’s health budget to over £12 billion for the first time, and invested in childcare to increase entitlement to 16 hours per week for all 3, 4 and looked after 2 year olds.

In the face of unprecedented cuts to Scotland’s budget from the Westminster Government, the SNP has also invested to mitigate against Tory welfare cuts – including the Bedroom Tax.  And despite a cut of 25 per cent Westminster cut to Scotland’s capital budget, the Scottish Government is also on track to meet its ambitious target to deliver 30,000 affordable homes by the end of this Parliament.

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Polls mean absolutely nothing! As we should all know now.

Still, I reckon the SNP will wipe the board at next years Holyrood elections!

I'm quite pro-SNP now, but am strongly against any mention of another bloody referendum! For at least 25 years! Anything less would simply be undemocratic.

We voted. We refused independence.

Although it could be argued that an SNP majority next year would be a mandate, I think it would be foolish and brazen of them to attempt to hold another 'ref' so soon.

Alex Salmond  said it was 'once in a life-time', Sturgeon claimed it was an opportunity afforded 'once in a generation'.

I agree with Oddquine - I think 'Indy talk' should be left-out of the conversation pre-2016 elections, and although obviously their 'raisoin d'etre', it should be put on the SNP's back-burner for a while!

Even an election tomorrow would see the SNP short - they need to consistently be polling at around 60% to have any chance in a future referendum.

It will inevitably happen, but I doubt anybody alive now will see it! It's a very, very slow burner, but I'm feeling the paper has been lit!

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The SNP aren't stupid.  There won't be a second referendum until they know they'll win it.  For that reason, unless there's some major change (the EU in/out could be it), there won't be another referendum until polling shows support for Yes is constantly polling in the upper 50%.  It will happen through time and I believe independence in the long run is inevitable but the timing is the big factor.  If we had another referendum tomorrow, I believe the result would be slightly closer, but not that much.  Quebec seemed to have shown that you can reject independence once, but twice would would kill it, for a couple of decades anyway.

 Putting aside comments by Sturgeon, Salmond and all the rest.  Just because a referendum votes goes one way, doesn't mean it should stand forever.  By that logic, if someone wins a constituency or an election with over 50%, they should rule forever.  People views, arguments and circumstances change and with only 6% needed to swing the result, the issue won't be gone for a long time yet.....perhaps until it happens.

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