Singing Section Next Season

[CaleyD]

It was disappointing that they wasn't more folks there last night, especially those who have been so vocal on this board.

Dig noted - I would have been there had I not been working  :016:

[maimie]

It was disappointing that they wasn't more folks there last night, especially those who have been so vocal on this board.

Dig noted - I would have been there had I not been working  :016:

don't think this was purely aimed at you CD!  :003:

[CaleyD]

Oh I know, and I understand the frustration in getting people to attend and speak up where it really can count.

You know I would never miss that opportunity if I was able  :015:

Seriously though, this is a great move on the part of the club and it can and will work provided they ensure they've crossed all the i's and dotted all the t's - I'm a great troublemaker shooter and if the club are wanting to use this site then I'll be more than happy to sit down with them and the Trust for a bit of a brain storming session to make sure everything has been looked at.

[Mrs Pauliebee]

Sorry but this really annoys me - if your given a voice for Christ sakes's use it!!!!!!!!!!! :008: :008: :008:

How many other clubs would give you such unlimited and uncensored access straight to the Chairman!!

He was right there waiting and willing to answer any questions!!!!!!

It's very easy to come on the website and have a moan!  

Quite another to get off your flippin erse and do something!

C'mon guys - let's be more pro-active!!!!!!!

[RiG]

It was disappointing that they wasn't more folks there last night, especially those who have been so vocal on this board.

Have it in Aberdeen next time then!  :016:

[Mrs Pauliebee]

Thought you had a proxy?  :blah01:

[RiG]

Erm...umm....fit?

[CaleyD]

Sorry but this really annoys me - if your given a voice for Christ sakes's use it!!!!!!!!!!! :008: :008: :008:

Lets be honest, the whole "giving people a voice" thing is a crock of chit - the club came to that meeting last night with no intention of providing any further information as to the events at the Dunfermline game and that is the one thing people wanted before they moved on with the whole singing section initiative.  They also arrived at the meeting with the idea of the Temp Enclosures to facilitate the fans, but only on the basis that it could be done without costing them anything due to the way it will be used for the big games - "lets give them a singing section, that will shut them up and we can brush the other stuff under the carpet and make a few quid into the bargain"

The voice of the majority of people at the meeting would have been useless anyway as if they disagreed they would be powerless to act against the clubs proposals.

How many other clubs would give you such unlimited and uncensored access straight to the Chairman!!

He was right there waiting and willing to answer any questions!!!!!!

Then that should have been used as a selling point for the meeting.  I asked when the meeting was announced what the Chairman was to be there for and the Trust could not tell me.  It's all fair and well spouting about these things after the event, but as far as anyone was aware he was just coming along to talk about the new singing section.

It's very easy to come on the website and have a moan! 

Like you've just done you mean?

I predicted when the meeting was announced that unless people knew that they were going to receive information regarding investigations into events at the Dunfermline game then they would be unlikely to support any new initiative for fear of the same thing happening again.  We were told that the Trust would present their findings at the meeting, did this happen and is their information which could be made public (a report)?

I find it quite astonishing that your getting annoyed about the attendance at the meeting when people as good as told you they wouldn't be interested unless questions were going to be answered.  We received no assurance that these issues would be addressed or even open to discussion.  That isn't my reason for not attending, but I would bet my last £ on the fact that it was a consideration for others.

It's all fare and well asking people to be more pro-active, but the Trust and the club have to learn to listen a little better.  This meeting was never going to be well attended because nobody could tell us that we would be discussing what we wanted to discuss.

People these days are lazier - it's a fact of life and one you have to factor for.  Town hall meetings are a thing of the past for exactly that reason and websites, forums and chat rooms are where most people will vent their frustrations (or indeed sing praise).  Just because they choose a different media doesn't make their points any less valid or meaningful and clubs, societies etc should ignore them at their peril.  Many football clubs seem to spend their time distancing themselves from these new forms of communication instead of embracing them and, IMO, it is one of the major factors contributing to the wedge being driven between club and fans.

[L_G]

I don't know what more you expect.  The chairman and vice chairman of the trust and the football club took the top table and answered any questions that were asked of them.  They openly praised the initiative of the singing section, but regretted the way it was handled.  These points have been taken on board when looking at how to move the new section forward.

When we first met with the chairman following the Dunfermline game, he suggested then that a new area be created for the singing section. To be honest I saw this as something for the future rather than for this season.  To give him credit he has worked extremely hard to have plans drawn etc.  It is certainly hoped that the new section will balance the books at the end of the season, but that wasn't the reason for it.  The Chairman is very keen for the singing section to move forward and I think he has taken on board the comments they received.  He is also keen to listen to ongoing logistical issues, but he will jump through whatever hoops are necessary for this to be successful.

It now needs the fans to get behind it. 

For what it's worth I don't agree with your reasons for some people not attending the meeting, I know you were working, but some people just clearly can't be bothered.  We can all sit behind a computer (often anonymously) and give our tuppence worth, but puting faces to these people is much better.  Credit to the young ones who attended last night and conducted themselves very well. They asked very relevant questions and I think they got the answers. 

[Mrs Pauliebee]

"Lets be honest, the whole "giving people a voice" thing is a crock of chit "

If you chose to look at it that way that's entirely up to you, we've had this conversation before.

I'm very much of the opinon - put up or shut up!

"It's very easy to come on the website and have a moan! 

Like you've just done you mean?"

Actually Don, I did both!  I made several points at the meeting, and felt satisfied with the answers and plans we were given.

At the end of the day it's up to you what you get out of a situation.  If you choose to look at it negatively as some sort of stitch up/shut up that's up to you.

As those that were there last night can testify (included two members of the Press) - every question asked was answered! 

If yours wasn't - then you should have gone, or made sure you had someone to ask it for you!

[Ronaldo]

Is there any free singing lessons?

I think I will come and go during the game to sing depending on the score!

And we should also have an official Chiormaster, are you listening IHE?

[L_G]

Don't know about singing lessons, but if you want we could try to organise a pre season get together for anyone who wants to learn some new songs.

[RiG]

What about some song sheets on entry to the singing section for the first game?

Stick them to the seats or something?

[L_G]

Good idea RIG.  Why don't you speak to a few people and make one up. We'll get it printed and distributed.  I'm sure it can be put on this site where it can be downloaded.

[CaleyD]

LG, I'm simply trying to make the point that it was the Stewarding and treatment of fans that was the big issue and confirmed discussion of that prior to the meeting would have attracted more people.  It is something that has impacted on more fans over the last couple of years than the singing section and it looks to be getting buried under the singing section initiative news.

Mrs PB, your not the first to want me to shut up and I doubt you'll be the last  :004:

RiG/Others - If we can get a list of all current songs and words then we'll happily create song sheets for download on here. With Alan Savage being keen to see this work then perhaps getting one or two printed in the programme each week may not be out of the question (lyrics permitting...lol)

[RiG]

Some creativity with some lyrics might be required!  :015:

[Mrs Pauliebee]

"Mrs PB, your not the first to want me to shut up and I doubt you'll be the last "

On the contrary, I told you to "put up"!

Alan Savage, seems to me, to be a very approachable person!

If you wanted your voice to be heard - you had the opportunity.

[forresdame]

I realise that the increased capacity will bring extra revenue for the larger games, but we all know that hundreds of tickets for these games end up in the hands of the opposition support.  Put even 50 to 100 opposition fans among our most lively and vocal fans and it is a recipe for disaster.  For that reason I would like to see control of the tickets for the new seats very strictly controlled.  They should be made available to existing season ticket holders only so if trouble does arise they can be traced or make sure names and addresses are taken for all tickets sold in that area for these matches.

  I understand what you are saying about the dangers of opposition fans entering the singing section, having been at a game surrounded by opposition fans (Celtic) in the main stand and having found it quite intimidating.  However it is arrogance on your part to suggest that only season ticket holders should be allowed in this area - for some of us it is not practical to purchase a season ticket due to the limited number of matches we are able to attend.  Having said that I'd be quite willing to provide proof of identity to gain admittance.  It would need to be some sort of legitimate I.D. surely, otherwise what's to stop people giving ficticious names and addresses - a bit Big Brother maybe (the original one NOT the inane Ch4 "show"), but surely genuine fans who are not out to cause trouble could live with that.

It was disappointing that they wasn't more folks there last night, especially those who have been so vocal on this board.

Please bear in mind, several of us are not Inverness-based.  Been on this forum long enough to realise that you were down south yourself not so long ago, are we to take it you would have attended this meeting even if you had to travel a considerable distance?

[Mrs Pauliebee]

FD - the purpose of the West Stand is to provide an opportunity for a Singing Section.  It'll be very much trial and error, and there will no doubt be problems - you can't please all the people all the time!

From what I took from last night, you must have a valid ticket, not just season ticket, to get into The West Stand.  You are free

to move back and forth to your seat as you see fit - within reason obviously!

And to answer your question, if there was something I felt that passionately about and couldn't attend - I would have made **** sure someone else asked those questions for me!

[CaleyD]

Forresdame, not arrogance at all, merely one suggestion for the control of ticket distribution for the larger games.  I'm not suggesting it should be Season Ticket Holders only in this section, just that tickets would need to be purchased by a ST holder.  There are many ST holders on here who would be happy to assist if you didn't know someone already.  It's not ideal, but it would allow the club to utilise existing technology/practices as an answer to a potential issue.

[SMEE]

Wonder how many of the 530 odd seats will actually be used? I reckon there will prob be an average of 400 empty seats :009: I hope I am wrong tho. Another thing, lets hope the "singing section" is constructed in such a way that it lends itself to providing an atmosphere, cause if not, yer as well not having one!

[forresdame]

FD - the purpose of the West Stand is to provide an opportunity for a Singing Section.  It'll be very much trial and error, and there will no doubt be problems - you can't please all the people all the time!

From what I took from last night, you must have a valid ticket, not just season ticket, to get into The West Stand.  You are free

to move back and forth to your seat as you see fit - within reason obviously!

And to answer your question, if there was something I felt that passionately about and couldn't attend - I would have made **** sure someone else asked those questions for me!

Mrs Pauliebee - my comments about the singing section & season tickets were targeted at CaleyD.  But I take your point about the attendance of the meeting, I was just annoyed that you seemed to be having a go at EVERYONE on here for not turning up.  I agree that people should make the effort if they're going to whinge about things but there are people who have to work or who don't live locally, that's all I meant ..... Sorry!

[forresdame]

Forresdame, not arrogance at all, merely one suggestion for the control of ticket distribution for the larger games.  I'm not suggesting it should be Season Ticket Holders only in this section, just that tickets would need to be purchased by a ST holder.  There are many ST holders on here who would be happy to assist if you didn't know someone already.  It's not ideal, but it would allow the club to utilise existing technology/practices as an answer to a potential issue.

Then you're asking ST holders purchasing tickets on behalf of others, who they don't necessarily know well, to vouch for their behaviour.  Any trouble would then come back to haunt the ST holder.  Could something not be organised on this site, which already has all users details?

[Mrs Pauliebee]

"Wonder how many of the 530 odd seats will actually be used?"

That was one of the main concerns put forward by Grassa.

Let's hope it gets supported enough for that not to happen!

forresdame - I wasn't having a pop at everyone for turning up. 

My original comment was about folks that are vocal on the board, but

then fail to speak up when given the chance. 

You don't have to tell me what a pain commuting to games etc can be! :004:

Perhaps next time, folks that genuinely can't attend could submit questions?

[CaleyD]

"Mrs PB, your not the first to want me to shut up and I doubt you'll be the last "

On the contrary, I told you to "put up"!

Given the opportunity I would - I know, I know, I had the opportunity...yadda yadda yadda, but the opportunity wasn't properly publicised, and that is my counter argument to the point about the low attendance.

Alan Savage, seems to me, to be a very approachable person!

If you wanted your voice to be heard - you had the opportunity.

"Sorry folks, I know you wanted to go to Culloden but I've just got a quick meeting I need to attend" - in light of recent developments I might just have got away with it  :015:

I do hear what your saying, but getting someone to ask a question on your behalf is one thing, getting them to press for a proper answer is another.  Also getting someone to ask a question on behalf of Don Johnstone could seriously endanger their popularity  :001:

I have no argument about whether or not I was able to ask the questions I wanted.  I couldn't attend so I accept that fact.  But just because I, or anyone, never asked the question doesn't mean it wasn't something which should have been addressed.  It certainly has nothing to do with the fact that the full purpose of the Chairmans attendance was not properly publicised.  Also, someones inability to attend should not prevent them from being allowed to discuss it on here, again I make the point that if clubs (not just ICT) embraced technology and it's abilities more then it could be used to their advantage instead of just ignoring what they don't want to hear.

The meeting is done with, we can't turn the clock back and ask other questions at it or tell people in advance that the subject is up for discussion with the chairman.  I do however still expect the Trust and the Club to produce a proper communication for fans on both the events at the Dunfermline game and the general state of the stewarding and how it will be changed going forward - not just in conjunction with the singing section but at the stadium as a whole.  It's fair enough to say home stewarding will change, but they will still have a job on their hands getting our fans to comply when away fans are left to run amok.