Brewster in perspective.

[Charles Bannerman]

I'm just a little bit dismayed at the incredibly negative comment on this forum about the return of Craig Brewster and I believe that at least some of it may be the result of misunderstanding and misinformation.

I believe that there's a lot of (unjust) anti Brewster feeling because the nature of his departure in January 2006 has not been fully understood. Weeks before he left, he was unfortunately "ambushed" into indicating that he was at ICT to stay. Then a very persuasive Eddie Thomson came in with an offer he couldn't refuse. I was there when Brewster made that first statement - which was solicited rather than volunteered -  and he really couldn't have said anything else, nor could he have read the future. Then when he did leave, it was only after a great deal of persuasion, a great deal of thought, yes, a very good financial offer but who wouldn't be influenced by that? Then most of importantly of all, he refused to leave unless Caley Thistle got very generous compensation. This last fact is not very well known and the cash concerned created that year's profit.

There are also complaints about his record and his style of play. His results at Inverness were pretty good and you cannot take into account his poor statistics at Tannadice. He did not suddenly become a bad manager overnight, but he did move into a much less positive football environment overnight. I don't believe many of his United players (despite their hefty pay cheques) were prepared to put in the work he demanded and I think that when he went there, working under Eddie Thomson was not quite what he expected.... as many other managers have found. On the other hand the Brewster - ICT combination has already been proved to work.

If there is concern about his style of play, don't panic. You may very well find a positively different and more experienced Craig Brewster from the one which left 19 months ago. But he will certainly not have changed in his desire to produce a fit team.

I also think that some of the anti Brewster sentiment has been generated by the fact that the new man will NOT be Neil Warnock. For some reason a lot of fans seemed to be drawn into a storm of pro Warnock hysteria... but on the basis of what? A statement from Warnock which smacked seriously of the shop window? Did the directors ever really rate him as a realistic option? Would his financial requirements have been realsitic? How big a risk would there have been of him being away in months to the Premiership or the Championship? Does he really know much about Scotland outside the Old Firm?

If fans feel deprived of their high profile manager, think back to Jim Leishman and Sergei Baltacha. These were both high profile managers taken in by Thistle and Caley in the early 90s and both proved to be failures. Apart from the refusal of both to relocate to Inverness, neither understood football at the level at which they were managing and this was the main reason for their failure to produce. I believe Neil Warnock may well have fallen into the same trap and then we might well have got a lot more of the dressing room dramatics which someone at Wednesday night's meeting said they witnessed on U Tube.

Craig Brewster is here... or at least he will be on Monday. I don't really see much reason for Caley Thistle fans not to get solidly behind him and the team who really do need to feel a positive message from their supporters and not carping about the new manager.

[+Gringo]

:clapping03: :clapping03: :clapping03:

[Kingsmills]

I'm not in the least concerned about the manner of his departure. He left to manage a bigger club on a larger salary. A bonus, from his point of view, was that they were his boyhood heroes.

What does cocern me greatly is the fact that he failed so badly at Tannadice where he had decent resourses and, initially at least, enousmous goodwill from the fans and his influencial chairman. There is little doubt that Dunee United would have been relegated had they not dismissed Brewster and, to be frank, I'm  more than a little worried that ICT will now suffer that fate.

[Johnboy]

:clapping03: :clapping03: :clapping03:

[Johnboy]

Charles : It is not all about pro Warnock hysteria...

Coyle or even Stephen Pressley, currently doing his coaching badges at Largs, would have been greatly preferred to Brewster, thanks mainly to whom, we no longer have Darren Dods playing for us.

[Zoid]

Totally agree with Johnboy & Kingsmills.

What really stinks is it appears to have been a done deal for quite some time now.

[Scotty]

I am reading what you say with interest Charles and to be honest, as my day progresses I am becoming less concerned with Brewster and more concerned with our board.

RE: Brewster's departure. There are two undeniable facts in evidence ! (1) Brewster made a statement about loyalty and (2) Barely two weeks later he buggered off. Thats what the fans saw and you cant slate us for reacting to that. If there were positive elements surrounding his departure or 'gestures' made by him to ensure ICT were 'looked after' then this didnt come out and that is not our fault. I can also sympathise with the man because managing DUFC for him was like CC managing ICT - both clubs were the 'dream team' for each of them. However, for these positive 'facts' to come out now is too little too late and smacks totally and utterly of spin. We have been fed so much bullshit recently that most of us dont know which way is up ! (except IHE of course)

As for his record - I said in the article on the front page of the site and in the forums that his record at ICT was not actually that bad. However, like many, I believe Brewster the Player (BTP) was an enormous help to Brewster the Manager (BTM). At Dundee United, BTM got found out because BTP wasnt on the park ! As you say, I am sure there were other factors too but that record concerns me as it should everyone else. no-one will be more delighted than me if he proves that my fears are totally unfounded and I have said that elsewhere too but if BTM causes ICT to finish at the BoTomM then both he and the board will have to seriously consider their positions.

As for Warnock - how can the club make a decision on the man without even talking to him?

Do they know his expectations ? Do they know his salary requirements ? Do they know what he knows about Scotland outside the OF ? or as it reads in numerous articles are they just assuming everything? (and I am sure you know what they say about assuming things !!!)

Anything they have said only indicates "baggage" or puts up barriers and everything he has said has swatted away those perceived barriers such as finances and his desire to be considered etc. If they have spoken to him and decided against him then a little hint of "why" might not go amiss but if they have not spoken to him then that is arrogance of the worst order as his record speaks for itself and unscientific or not, the various polls on here have shown that an overwhelming number of fans who took part in them either voted for him or against Brewster.

[ammac]

Mr Bannerman

Everything you have said is correct but in life it is always easy to chase the dream of yester year or the Holy Grail.

Craig Brewster did a very good job for the club when he was here but the club has move on, the players have moved on and fans have moved on.

The club should be looking forward not backwards.

I personally do not know who the new manager should be but it needs to someone with new ideas and vigour to take the club forward.

[caleyboy]

I'm not in the least concerned about the manner of his departure. He left to manage a bigger club on a larger salary. A bonus, from his point of view, was that they were his boyhood heroes.

What does cocern me greatly is the fact that he failed so badly at Tannadice where he had decent resourses and, initially at least, enousmous goodwill from the fans and his influencial chairman. There is little doubt that Dunee United would have been relegated had they not dismissed Brewster and, to be frank, I'm  more than a little worried that ICT will now suffer that fate.

:clapping03: :clapping03:

Although I respect Charles Bannerman's views, I would not expect him to print anything other than support for Brewster. Party line Charles - not like you.  :020:

[Mee]

I'm just a little bit dismayed at the incredibly negative comment on this forum about the return of Craig Brewster

As is painfully obvious from the biased BBC coverage you've inflicted on us  :018:

There are also complaints about his record and his style of play.

As MANY fans have pointed out, we didn't like his style of play, hoof the ball up to the boss, who will more than likely make an erse of it and he NEVER subbed himself, no matter how gash he was playing! In fact he rarely subbed anyone, unless it was in the last few minutes of a game when it was too late to make a difference, and never for tactical reasons.

I don't really see much reason for Caley Thistle fans not to get solidly behind him and the team who really do need to feel a positive message from their supporters and not carping about the new manager.

Did you think up that line leaning on the heathmount bar, perhaps even buying Brew a pint Charles? If the team need positive thoughts, who better to supply them than the BOARD by appointing a decent manager, not someone the players were glad to see the back of and who tops the most despised list of the majority of fans?

[Guest TinCanFan]

Charles : It is not all about pro Warnock hysteria...

Coyle or even Stephen Pressley, currently doing his coaching badges at Largs, would have been greatly preferred to Brewster, thanks mainly to whom, we no longer have Darren Dods playing for us.

It's not just that, ICT would have been playing in Europe a few years back if Brewster hadn't scored against them!

[troublegum007]

For some reason a lot of fans seemed to be drawn into a storm of pro Warnock hysteria... but on the basis of what? A statement from Warnock which smacked seriously of the shop window? Did the directors ever really rate him as a realistic option? Would his financial requirements have been realsitic? How big a risk would there have been of him being away in months to the Premiership or the Championship? Does he really know much about Scotland outside the Old Firm?

.............and did the board interview him to find out?

[Heilandee]

If Brewster begins by getting points on the boards quickly most of his past misdemeanours will evaporate in a cloud of "i never doubted he'd do it" comments,if he gets none (goad forbid)    from his first2 or 3 games he's gubbed. Stating the obvios but results are everything in the SPL.

[Johnboy]

Suppose you don't have any options other than to stick up for a fellow Dundonian....  :023:

[Heilandee]

Suppose you don't have any options other than to stick up for a fellow Dundonian....  :023:

He's no a fellow Dundonian , he's an arab FFs!!! ,that said i did respect the guy and thought he did well up here,but being seen as a turncoat is a bitter pill for any football fan to swallow,most feel managers and players should have the same love and pashion for the club they do and are angered when this is proved not to be the case,in Brewsters case i reckon he's will be a wiser man after the events of the last 18 months,whether he has the man management skills and tactical nous to turn round ICT's fortunes remains to be seen.

I for one hope he suceeds.

[TSTtiger]

an admirable effort charles and i agree with much of it , but it changes nothing. WEVE BEEN SHAFTED UP THE BACK SIDE

[Guest fleminc]

Its just a disgrace. Its our club and the board are there to represent our wishes not to lord over us. Anyone with the slightest grasp of the english language would ascertain from the numerous posts in the past few days what the fans want and what they certainly do not want and the board have gone ahead and appointed what we certainly don't want for reasons that reek highly of nepotism.

I am disgusted, betrayed and gutted. Whats more if Brewster dose start producing the points yes we will be happy but at the back of my mind will always be the niggling thoughts of what new direction Wrnock would have taken us in because while brewster may keep us up,and for everyones sake that has been instrumental to this appointment  I hope he does, I cannot see him taking the club to the next level. What is the point in life if you are not going to show ambition and a desire to improve yourself which is what has happened here. Raging!

[Guest TinCanFan]

Sure, I'll give Brewster support when he deserves it and won't support ICT any less but I'm MAD right now!

[johnnykipper]

I'm just a little bit dismayed at the incredibly negative comment on this forum about the return of Craig Brewster and I believe that at least some of it may be the result of misunderstanding and misinformation.

There are also complaints about his record and his style of play. His results at Inverness were pretty good and you cannot take into account his poor statistics at Tannadice. He did not suddenly become a bad manager overnight

Charles I would have to say that once again it looks like you havent really done much research into the facts.

I think we played 11 or 12 games in the league under Brew when he was not playing (due to injury or suspension as he would never have dreamed off dropping himself). Out of those games I think we won 2 now if you think that is a good record Charles you are either brown nosing Daddy Brew or very easily pleased, thats the sort of record that gets teams relegated.

[Guest maddy]

lets not forget that he took with him assitant and fitness coach and the under 21 coach then tried but failed to raid our players ,so dont give me p**h about him being hijaked he knew what he was doing

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Charles you have put your credibility on the line. The Board have put their credibility on the line. Brewster cannot fail or the fallout will be enormous. This is the biggest risk this Club's custodians have ever taken and in the past we have backed them to the hilt.

The lack of competition for this appointment is now evident. There was no competition.

The pressure to produce results greater than ever and a series of defeats in the next 6 games which were perhaps expected could now be exacerbated.

Hopefully we sign the new Centre Half as a matter of urgency and gain some comfort. One or two players (midfield or a few pounds heavier since his last reign) look as though they might now move on.

Let's get behind the team against United and hope Brewster doesn't play a weakened team against Arbroath in the same way we exited the competition in a previous disaster.

[4ize]

A bit more perspective for the statisticians. If SPL survival is our first aim each season, which I wouldn't imagine raises too many eyebrows, then we have to take the points we ought to get - meaning from the weakest clubs - to put some clear water between us and them.

This is how our SPL managers have fared against the bottom four:

Robbo

Played 6, averaged 1.67 points per game with a 50% win rate

Brew

Played 13, averaged 1.46 points per game with a 38% win rate

Charlie

Played 22, averaged 1.82 points per game with a 55% win rate

Bear in mind that for much of Brew's tenure Livi were pretty atrocious, yet we shared equal spoils in the head-to-head.

I don't know how anyone else reads that, but it doesn't fill me with confidence, especially as we're in prospectively the strongest league we've seen since winning promotion.

I, like many, was very hacked off at the loyalty's-important-oops-I'm-off thing, but my real concern - like most - is that we're not welcoming back a savvy manager but an aging striker who gets people fit, says 'um' a lot, doesn't know what a midfielder is for and is devoid of ideas on how to play attractive football, change the tide of a game or correct problems in good time.

I hope he proves me wrong. I doubt he will.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

As I mentioned on another thread:

1. His training and diet regimes had our team playing at the height of their capabilities.

2. Many of the players will welcome him back and will "play" FOR him.

3. Niculae WILL benefit. Niculae is a Brewster-esque type of player - but potentially better. If he plays in the old Brew role, as coached by the man himself, he could be a major asset. At the moment he doesnt fit into the system or vice versa.

[tm4tj]

I am ashamed by the rubbish some fans are typing on these forums. If you don't like what you see, don't go and watch it. Some are already doing that, although I question the real reason for that. It is always going to be difficult to keep ICT in the top league, but here we are. Don't judge Brew on the next three results, they are tough games anyway, judge him at Xmas and see if you still feel the same. In fact, if he is not performing well by then we will be in trouble and you can all say we told you so, but don't turn your back on the team right now, they will do their best to get back up the league.

[Scotty]

Charles I would have to say that once again it looks like you havent really done much research into the facts.

I think we played 11 or 12 games in the league under Brew when he was not playing (due to injury or suspension as he would never have dreamed off dropping himself). Out of those games I think we won 2 now if you think that is a good record Charles you are either brown nosing Daddy Brew or very easily pleased, thats the sort of record that gets teams relegated.

Brewster's record as manager

P50  W17  D18  L15  / Winning percentage 34.00%

Brewster's Home record

P27  W9  D7  L11  / Winning percentage 33.33%

Brewster's Away record

P23  W8  D11  L4  / Winning percentage 34.78%

pretty even stats ....

HOWEVER

Brewster's record when ON the pitch

P33  W13  D10  L10  / Winning percentage 39.39% 

Brewster's record when NOT on the pitch

P17  W4  D8  L5  / Winning percentage 23.52%

A significant difference which supports comments made earlier about Brewster the Player being required to bale out Brewster the manager. Is the difference because he is a good player or because someone else is calling the shots when he is on the pitch ? that much is up for debate but the figures speak for themselves.