It's a question of respect!

[PullMyFinger]

Oh dear, he swore................big deal.

Get over yersels.

As the public face of ICT it is unacceptable behaviour especially when it is directed at his own support and at a home game. Does he expect gratitude when he is setting out a team which is shipping three goals each game?

Mannie, you get over yourself!

[Johnboy]

There are ways and means of getting your message across without resorting to that kind of gutter-snipe language.

See here

[quizzer]

Official complaints have been lodged with the board, we'll just have to wait and see what happens (ie any public apology) but I wouldn't expect anything - at the very most it would be "i'm sorry for my language BUT..." ie not taking full responsibility, the blame would be put back on the fans. I initally thought that his outburst was a reaction to comments being made in his direction, to hear that it was because people were leaving makes it loads worse in my book. I don't think I'm less of a fan as I walked out shortly after the 3rd goal, it was only the second time (other occasion when c%unty put 5 past us at home) in almost 10 years of being a season ticket holder that I've left early and on both occasions there were minutes to go.

[caleykid1994]

Official complaints have been lodged with the board, we'll just have to wait and see what happens (ie any public apology) but I wouldn't expect anything - at the very most it would be "i'm sorry for my language BUT..." ie not taking full responsibility, the blame would be put back on the fans. I initally thought that his outburst was a reaction to comments being made in his direction, to hear that it was because people were leaving makes it loads worse in my book. I don't think I'm less of a fan as I walked out shortly after the 3rd goal, it was only the second time (other occasion when c%unty put 5 past us at home) in almost 10 years of being a season ticket holder that I've left early and on both occasions there were minutes to go.

i can understand your reasons for leaving early but there's no way he should act like that to anyone. hes in a position within the club to show a certain level of discipline and cool headedness and hes bawlsed it right up. Theres no excuse for it within, as the board like to call it, a family club. If the fans get threatened with ejection and jailtime for standing and swearing, why should he be excused it?

[Scarlet Pimple]

Unfortunately the last poster is right. But......

Whether he was being abused from the stand or not , in his position, which must command respect ,he is expected to exercise discipline over his actions and emotions.However, in his position he is also not in a position to fight back and so restraint must be exercised by the fans so that they don't go completely over the top.

If the abuse to which people say he was subjected was constant and laced with swearing or expletives ....whatever...then it should equally be the club's responsibility to identify and warn these fans that their conduct is unacceptable, just as much as they may consider discussing the matter with T.B. Not only because "it's a family club" but if that is all that they want to do at a football then match who needs them? Do they go to enjoy themselves or do they go to vent their spleen and viciousness. Who needs that anywhere ?

Many times at a match a fan can become frustrated and angry but constntly throwing this kind of garbage at the Manager is counter -productive. It's the players on the pitch that are ALSO equally responsible for poor performance and is it not supposed to be a team game ?

[Harry Chibber]

But of whinging ba5tards... I would love to know how many of the complaints that were sent to the club have come from people who were directly involved!!

[stevico1]

I am surprised that with Butchers grasp of PR he hasn't come out by now with an apology for the language that he apparently used.

[Harry Chibber]

I am surprised that with Butchers grasp of PR he hasn't come out by now with an apology for the language that he apparently used.

At the moment it's a whisper between a few fans on an internet forum... if any article/apology is printed it will become a national issue.

[RiG]

You never see Alex Ferguson turning round and swearing at the Old Trafford support, he might have his own views on them, but he wouldn't embarrass himself with a barage of swear words directed at them.

Probably because Man United seldom lose at Old Trafford so he never finds himself in such a position where the crowd are getting on at him in the manner they were with Butcher and Malpas.

[Harry Chibber]

You never see Alex Ferguson turning round and swearing at the Old Trafford support, he might have his own views on them, but he wouldn't embarrass himself with a barage of swear words directed at them.

Probably because Man United seldom lose at Old Trafford so he never finds himself in such a position where the crowd are getting on at him in the manner they were with Butcher and Malpas.

This is the guy that threw a football boot at David Beckham... I'm sure his outburst would have been a lot worse if he was receiving the same abuse/criticism from our fans.

[stevico1]

I am surprised that with Butchers grasp of PR he hasn't come out by now with an apology for the language that he apparently used.

At the moment it's a whisper between a few fans on an internet forum... if any article/apology is printed it will become a national issue.

While I am not bothered about Butchers outburst there are some that are offended by it, what should we do brush it under the carpet so it doesn't become a national issue. The club are in more danger of letting this happen the longer it drags on.

If some have written letters of complaint to the club they will have to deal with it and perhaps a quick apology over the weekend would have put an end to the matter

[Johnboy]

Stevie's right....

Butcher and the board should make a statement to (hopefully) bring this matter to a close.

If there is another poor performance on Saturday it is a problem that could very well escalate.

[KingBeastie]

We have no god given right to win a game. Nor to win any game.

We got beat - deal with it.

Do we have to have every game turn into some football politics argument each week?

There's a lot of fans who go the TCS who deserve to be called worse than what TB has supposedly called them.

[absent friend]

I have a wee problem with this whole thing.

I will accept that the management team are feeling the strain and have reacted to it, as did our right back. All human and have feelings and therefore understandable BUT it does show a bit of their inner self. I would be more concerned if there had been no reaction from TB, to be honest.

Anyway back to the problem, 'if you want to attend a football match, even with children, accept swearing as the norm'- so says the bulk of posters on here. We are allowed to shout our feelings at the manager even if it contains sweary words, say the posters on here.

Don't you use sweary words back to us TB, say the posters on here. However JJ can, Yogi can and guess what, they are good craic!

Do we have a problem??????????????

[RiG]

This is the guy that threw a football boot at David Beckham... I'm sure his outburst would have been a lot worse if he was receiving the same abuse/criticism from our fans.

Indeed. It's quite a bizarre comparison to make.

Just be thankful Derek Adams isn't our manager. He would have jumped into the stand and battered the fans.

[gordyfromsneck]

I wasn't a direct target, but I suppose, I was by association as I left when the 3rd went in. It all became tediously predictable. I found Terry's arm waving highly amusing, but...

This IS a problem. How is TerrynJune going to feel comingout at the Dunfermline match? How will the pointed supporters feel? Has the damage done been permanent? Has the management lost the crowd, and I dont mean the halfdozen critics on here?

My guess is that this is a critical stage in TBs career; last Saturday will be marked. Never mind tonights Raith game, Saturday's match is a mustwin!

[absent friend]

I wasn't a direct target, but I suppose, I was by association as I left when the 3rd went in. It all became tediously predictable. I found Terry's arm waving highly amusing, but...

This IS a problem. How is TerrynJune going to feel comingout at the Dunfermline match? How will the pointed supporters feel? Has the damage done been permanent? Has the management lost the crowd, and I dont mean the halfdozen critics on here?

My guess is that this is a critical stage in TBs career; last Saturday will be marked. Never mind tonights Raith game, Saturday's match is a mustwin!

Maybe the 'fans' that wound the management team up, not the early leavers, could be man enough to come forward on Saturday and offer the hand of apology to them.

[Renegade]

You never see Alex Ferguson turning round and swearing at the Old Trafford support, he might have his own views on them, but he wouldn't embarrass himself with a barage of swear words directed at them.

Probably because Man United seldom lose at Old Trafford so he never finds himself in such a position where the crowd are getting on at him in the manner they were with Butcher and Malpas.

Probably because he plays entertaining football, especially at home. Something Terryboy doesn't.

You never see Alex Ferguson turning round and swearing at the Old Trafford support, he might have his own views on them, but he wouldn't embarrass himself with a barage of swear words directed at them.

Probably because Man United seldom lose at Old Trafford so he never finds himself in such a position where the crowd are getting on at him in the manner they were with Butcher and Malpas.

This is the guy that threw a football boot at David Beckham... I'm sure his outburst would have been a lot worse if he was receiving the same abuse/criticism from our fans.

He let rip at Beckham and the rest of them, but that was behind the closed doors of the home dressing room. I'm pretty sure he does have his own view on some supports, but he'd never embarrass himself by doing it in the dugout.

[RiG]

Probably because he plays entertaining football, especially at home. Something Terryboy doesn't.

He has a extortionate transfer budget to play with. Butcher has possibly the smallest budget of the last few ICT managers to work with. Compare chalk and cheese much?

[Renegade]

True, but you still gotta know what to do tactics-wise. Even at St Mirren he was credited with playing exciting attacking football.

[DornochCaley]

This is the guy that threw a football boot at David Beckham... I'm sure his outburst would have been a lot worse if he was receiving the same abuse/criticism from our fans.

Indeed. It's quite a bizarre comparison to make.

Just be thankful Derek Adams isn't our manager. He would have jumped into the stand and battered the fans.

Thats because hes a w*nker!

[+L_G]

Either I was at a different game or I was concentrating too much on the game in hand to hear any abuse directed at Butcher. I did hear someone behind me shout something that Malpas responded to with a f?ck off. To me it seemed that the action of a number of fans walking out is what started Butcher off.

Well I don't think you were at a different game as you were only a couple of rows in front of me, so it must have been your concentration that blocked your hearing.

I don't think for a minute it was the people walking out that was the problem, although it may have inflamed it slightly. There are some people who sit around us who moan constantly and shout at Butcher. Get this player off he's Cr*p, put someone else on, come on Butcher sort this out, etc etc etc.

As for his outburst, I have mixed feelings.

1. I think that it showed passion and the fact that he cares as the pressure certainly got to him.

2. I think that he should have tried to keep his cool for just a few minutes more and not reacted, but I can understand why he did it.

3. There was a personal retaliation from Butcher towards a specific fan, which was again inappropriate, but how long do you think you can keep niggling someone without getting a reaction.

I actually think that his actions will further agrivate the situation, and now that the fans responsible see they can get a reaction I think they may be worse than ever if things don't go our way on Saturday.

From another point of view, we have had fans banned from games for less.

[Harry Chibber]

Either I was at a different game or I was concentrating too much on the game in hand to hear any abuse directed at Butcher. I did hear someone behind me shout something that Malpas responded to with a f?ck off. To me it seemed that the action of a number of fans walking out is what started Butcher off.

Well I don't think you were at a different game as you were only a couple of rows in front of me, so it must have been your concentration that blocked your hearing.

I don't think for a minute it was the people walking out that was the problem, although it may have inflamed it slightly. There are some people who sit around us who moan constantly and shout at Butcher. Get this player off he's Cr*p, put someone else on, come on Butcher sort this out, etc etc etc.

As for his outburst, I have mixed feelings.

1. I think that it showed passion and the fact that he cares as the pressure certainly got to him.

2. I think that he should have tried to keep his cool for just a few minutes more and not reacted, but I can understand why he did it.

3. There was a personal retaliation from Butcher towards a specific fan, which was again inappropriate, but how long do you think you can keep niggling someone without getting a reaction.

I actually think that his actions will further agrivate the situation, and now that the fans responsible see they can get a reaction I think they may be worse than ever if things don't go our way on Saturday.

From another point of view, we have had fans banned from games for less.

If it is just 1 fan, can someone not ask/tell him to keep his trap shut? (maybe it was Alex .... just a thought)

[RiG]

True, but you still gotta know what to do tactics-wise.

Whilst this is the case I reckon I could go and manage Man United or Real Madrid and get them pretty high up the league simply due to the calibre of players they have. Tactics will get you so far but having a good standard of player helps no end. Sadly that isn't the case at ICT due to a slashed budget.

[Harry Chibber]

True, but you still gotta know what to do tactics-wise.

Whilst this is the case I reckon I could go and manage Man United or Real Madrid and get them pretty high up the league simply due to the calibre of players they have. Tactics will get you so far but having a good standard of player helps no end. Sadly that isn't the case at ICT due to a slashed budget.

bet you couldn't

I think you are forgetting all the hard work that put Sir Alex in that position... remember in his first season they were nearly relegated and he was on the verge of getting the sack. Even now people continually question his tactics, against Sunderland for example.. that was one of the worst performances I've seen from a Man U at old trafford in years yet they still managed to get a draw from the game and the fans.... instead of turning on Sir Alex (like that would ever happen) got behind the team when it looked like the game was all but lost and they came back to get a draw.

I think that's one of the things our home fans don't realise, in 1 minute a game can change completely - TCS against Falkirk, last game of the season, 1 point keeps us in the SPL, 5 minutes + injury time and fans start vacating the stands..... that's when I lost faith in our "fans" and realised that a lot of people are there to fill their Saturday afternoons or just so they have a common talking point with friends/colleagues... a lot of them probably don't even like football yet our board seem to be favouring them to the fans who were there when there was no roof over the terracing and still applauded the team through wet and very fecking cold winter days...