Slur on Club

[HighlandCop]

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/inverness/835394/caley-thistle-football-fan-banned-from-every-ground-in-the-uk/

[Joe DiMaggio]

Obviously previous disorder was taken into account regarding his punishment but based on this specific incident he was very unlucky to be singled out. 

At one point in this game a large group of fans chanted dirty gypsy b's. 20-30 fans or so. Why was he singled out as if the stewards were that close they would have heard multiple people sing it. Seems stewards pick someone they want to get at and go after them. It's normally teenage boys though.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Shocking and embarrassing behaviour.

[Scotty]

not sure about a slur on the club .... but certainly a tough one for the individual concerned. Courier article is available without the silly P&J firewall here: http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/UK-wide-ban-for-ICT-fans-racist-insult-17022016.htm 

Having witnessed stewards trying to stitch up a friend of mine at extremely close quarters by stating he said one thing when he in fact said something else and then not having the bottle to admit they may have heard what they wanted to hear rather than what was actually said then I personally take what any steward says with grains of salt large enough to de-ice the A9 for a couple of seasons. 

Unless he was doing it multiple times (not clear from the article in the Courier) and somehow they managed to isolate him and only him as the culprit rather than 20 or 30 others, and could hear clearly what was being said all the way down at the front without the sound drifting off as it tends to do at the TCS, then I can only assume he was getting nailed due to previous indiscretions and that smacks of retribution not justice.

 

Having said that - it does clearly show that whatever actions you take part in whilst at a football ground - chanting, smoke bombs, flares etc .... DO or can have major ramifications ..... 

 

 

[CaleyD]

8 minutes ago, Joe DiMaggio said:

Obviously previous disorder was taken into account regarding his punishment but based on this specific incident he was very unlucky to be singled out. 

At one point in this game a large group of fans chanted dirty gypsy b's. 20-30 fans or so. Why was he singled out as if the stewards were that close they would have heard multiple people sing it. Seems stewards pick someone they want to get at and go after them. It's normally teenage boys though.

On the contrary, I would say that anyone else partaking was lucky as opposed to this person being unlucky.

The attitude that one person should not be pulled up when others are also involved is very bizarre....in fact, it's the very thing that many here complain about time and again when it involves other clubs.

[Alex MacLeod]

7 minutes ago, CaleyD said:

On the contrary, I would say that anyone else partaking was lucky as opposed to this person being unlucky.

The attitude that one person should not be pulled up when others are also involved is very bizarre....in fact, it's the very thing that many here complain about time and again when it involves other clubs.

Do we know he was the only one arrested? He may just be the first one to appear in court or it may be his previous resulted in the court actions and others got police warnings or the like.

[Scotty]

You may have access to more info than most on here CaleyD, so perhaps you know different and the facts are indeed more clear cut than the article would have us believe ... but for me, there are far too many imponderables to assume guilt regardless of the rendered verdict. 'Not Proven' might have been appropriate in this case.

Where the sheriff has formed his opinion seems to be based on his belief about the credibility of the stewards, as mentioned in the article. Thats a lot of faith in a group of people (rather than individuals) who have been found wanting numerous times in the past !    

[CaleyD]

12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

You may have access to more info than most on here CaleyD, so perhaps you know different ... but for me, there are far too many imponderables to assume guilt regardless of the rendered verdict.

Where the sheriff has formed his opinion is on the credibility of the stewards, he said so in the article. Thats a lot of faith in people who have been found wanting numerous times in the past !    

My comment was in response to the post I quoted which was trying to make a case that whilst this one person was guilty, it was somehow unjust to punish them on the basis that other guilty parties have not been.  i.e. I was accepting Joe's assertion of guilt in demonstrating the ridiculousness of his statement, as opposed to my applying any assertions of my own.

Whether or not I have any further information has no bearing on that.

[AlexJones]

I think a polite 'this is your first and last warning' from the stewards would have been a more sensible course of action rather than hauling the guy out, wasting a fortune in police and court time, and creating an unnecessary spectacle for both the individual and the club. 

[CaleyD]

16 minutes ago, Alex MacLeod said:

Do we know he was the only one arrested? He may just be the first one to appear in court or it may be his previous resulted in the court actions and others got police warnings or the like.

See my response to Scotty.

[Kingsmills]

To be fair, all fans have been well warned that this sort of conduct can have criminal consequences. Hopefully it will serve as a lesson to any others similarly inclined. There is plenty of scope for witty and biting banter without crossing the line.

[Joe DiMaggio]

8 minutes ago, CaleyD said:

My comment was in response to the post I quoted which was trying to make a case that whilst this one person was guilty, it was somehow unjust to punish them on the basis that other guilty parties have not been.  i.e. I was accepting Joe's assertion of guilt in demonstrating the ridiculousness of his statement, as opposed to my applying any assertions of my own.

Whether or not I have any further information has no bearing on that.

Where did I say it was unjust to punish them? You're adding bits to what I said.

For people who were at that game and sitting in the North stand they would have heard a large group singing what he is accused off. Why was he singled out and others maybe left alone? If the stewards were looking out for this they would have seen many fans in an area singing it. Why ignore them and single this fan out?

And before we guess that others received the same treatment there would have been many fans these stewards saw sing this song but chose to do nothing about them .

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

[CaleyD]

27 minutes ago, Joe DiMaggio said:

Where did I say it was unjust to punish them? You're adding bits to what I said.

For people who were at that game and sitting in the North stand they would have heard a large group singing what he is accused off. Why was he singled out and others maybe left alone? If the stewards were looking out for this they would have seen many fans in an area singing it. Why ignore them and single this fan out?

And before we guess that others received the same treatment there would have been many fans these stewards saw sing this song but chose to do nothing about them .

Assuming you were one of the lucky ones then?

[Joe DiMaggio]

12 minutes ago, CaleyD said:

Assuming you were one of the lucky ones then?

That's a bit of a pathetic reply is it not?

And why would you assume that?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Joe DiMaggio

[Scotty]

ok folks - we are getting a bit personal here so yellow card treatment for this topic. lets stick to the debate/discussion and pull back a little from the personal point scoring stuff. 

 

[dougal]

1 hour ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Shocking and embarrassing behaviour.

Yeah every time you log on without fail

Anyway surely these gentlemen have now set a precedent, if these two stewards are on duty next season we will surely  see an empty away stand within five minutes of the game starting when Sevco are back in town

Dougal

 

[bdu98196]

The article doesnt state why if there were a group of others partaking what the actions of this individual were to draw attention? He may have been animated in a fashion that accompanied the vocals - whether he did it or not and whether he was a single person chanting or part of a larger group thats not for me or others on here to judge. He went to court and his defence was deemed not robust enough to have charges dropped - those are the facts based on the media report.

Hopefully this sends out a clear message to all ICT fans as this kind of chanting is not welcome, we should be a open club where all races, colours and religions can come along and enjoy football without comment or persecution - everyone knows this is wrong throughout not just football but society as a whole. Too much chanting based on culture or beliefs still exists in Scotland, its good to see a hardline stance taken - lets hope that other sherriffs see this and impose similar constraints on those who appear infront of them regardless of connection to ICT or other clubs - I'm fed up of some of the chants we hear at games (not usually from ICT fans I will add)

[ictchris]

I wasn't at this game so can't comment on the facts of this. I would not at all be surprised at stewards picking out an individual rather than trying to pick people out of a group and also being less than truthful when recounting what has happened. I've seen it happen at football countless times. 

[12th Man]

Is dirty tinky b's OK.

[12th Man]

Its a double whammy really, the club have to pay for the stewards, the stewards chuck one of their customers out, the customer gets fined and the club dont get any of his money for a year as well.

There have been plenty of warnings about the gypsy word though.

It's not the clubs fault it's goes higher than them and they have to tow the line.

The County fans take it in good jest by replying id rather be a gypsy than a tink.

I don't think boycotting the stadium will affect the people who make and enforce the rules in the slightest. In fact it will be deemed safer to manage with less people there.  Instead turn out in good numbers and support the team.

[TopSix]

30 minutes ago, 12th Man said:

Its a double whammy really, the club have to pay for the stewards, the stewards chuck one of their customers out, the customer gets fined and the club dont get any of his money for a year as well.

There have been plenty of warnings about the gypsy word though.

It's not the clubs fault it's goes higher than them and they have to tow the line.

The County fans take it in good jest by replying id rather be a gypsy than a tink.

I don't think boycotting the stadium will affect the people who make and enforce the rules in the slightest. In fact it will be deemed safer to manage with less people there.  Instead turn out in good numbers and support the team.

I'd be genuinely intrigued to know the extent to which stewarding issues have had an impact on our attendances in recent years.  

[CaleyHedgehog]

IMHO this guy got exactly what he deserved. He had been in bother in the past and so of all the fans chanting DGB he must be pretty thick to risk joining in. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. And that goes for any others who were warned, charged or indeed joined in.

I am not obsessive about the behaviour and language used at football grounds, it does add to the atmosphere and no one wants to be too afraid to say anything critical of the opposition. When the DGB chant is sung at our derby games, I will admit that my friends and I usually cringe a bit, but laugh a bit too, because as a previous poster said RC fans generally seem to handle it fine. I would never join in myself because I know that a moment of madness could cost me my job, possibly some good friendships and also my self respect as I do not want to consider myself to be a racist person. I also think the chanting at the European game reflected very badly on the club and on Inverness as a whole and considering we rely on tourism for much of our local economy it could have far reaching consequences.

As for the stewards, let's hope that their superiors give them a lecture about making sure that the are completely honest about the facts for both legal reasons and general credibility. We like to slag off the the stewards nearly, but not quite as much as the referees, but I am proud to support a club where our fans are seldom arrested and these people are just doing their jobs - some of them are young and still learning in what can be a hostile environment, especially where they are concerned. From what I could see at the Aberdire game the police at the back of section E seemed to be having a laugh with some fans (although I can't know for sure as I was too far away to know what was said but it all looked amicable enough). 

An authorised standing section would also be good, as I have to admit I've reached an age where I like to sit for the most part at games and being behind those who choose to stand could cause problems for some (but on Monday the standing crowd at the front were superb).

Well I hope the guy who was arrested takes some of his enforced spare time to think over ways in which he could be (in the words of Earl), "just trying to be a better person", but I'm more inclined to think he will see it as him being picked on. Oh the irony!

[bdu98196]

9 hours ago, TopSix said:

I'd be genuinely intrigued to know the extent to which stewarding issues have had an impact on our attendances in recent years.  

To anyone who is a genuine football fan and there for watching the game and their team - none, stewarding is only an issue if you hope to get away with unacceptable behaviour IMO. I (like probably everyone on here) have been to football matches, gigs, festivals, nightclubs etc with over zealous security or stewards who let the little power they have go to their heads, however that would never encourage me to avoid or not attend an event if I'm a fan or its something I enjoy.

We have seen arguments for poor attendance featuring - merger, stadium location, cold weather, cost, not liking yogi or any other management team, pies are crap, tea's too cold and many more............are people seriously suggesting stewarding and policing of games is another for the list? Those who boycott seems a crazy idea, are people suggesting that they would rather stay away to sympathise and support someone who has been convicted of chanting offensive and racial slur in favour of a preference for more laxed security? Whether an individual or a group this behaviour has no place in football or society and if a firm stance is not taken then it will just descend and I for one don't want it being like the Eastern Europe or Italy where large sections of fans are openly racist and its accepted and tolerated by clubs and national associations alike - the day it gets towards that is the day myself and many other fans will walk away.

[Renegade]

I'm really starting to find the whole gypsy stuff a bit tired.  I know we might not look at it with much malice and neither ourselves or Ross County look at it as particularly offensive, but the world's moved on.

Hard to believe anyone has any sympathy with this clown who got banned though as using terms about teams and people especially from Romania was always asking for trouble.  Can't say I'll mourn the absence of this repeat offender who can't even get himself a half decent haircut.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Renegade