Bank Balance

[Harry Chibber]

After finally making a reasonable profit on Rankin I am curious of exactly how much profit the club has made in transfers since we were promoted to the SPL.

Probably out on a few of these so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Ins

Rankin from County - 65k

McDonald from Gillingham - 9k

Paatalianen from Cowdenbeath - 12k

McGuire from Dunfermline - Undisclosed (likely to be a nominal fee)

Wyness from Hearts - unsure, was on loan but not too sure if we had to buy out his contract

Outs

Brown to Celtic - 175k

Rankin to Hibs - 110k

Brewster to United - 200k

Proctor to United - 50k

apart from the above, players have come and gone through free transfers

We seem to have made a profit of almost 400k  :010: :010:

I'm sure I've missed something because it doesn't seem right.  Firstly, you have to applaud the board on what looks like some excellent business. 

Then have to ask where's the money gone? I can't think of any major investments the club has made since the 2 stands were put up, so unless we are still paying this off.. what is actually being done with the money that has been accrued from transfers over the last few years, not to mention the increased attendances and merchandising sales?

[Scotty]

Until we got to the SPL we tended to make a loss unless we got a decent cup run so transfer monies just got gobbled up in the overall accounts.

Here's the PWC report on Scottish football from 2006. compared to some, we are doing rather well.

[attach=1]

pwc_spl_report_sep07.pdf

[Guest Jock Watt]

Very interesting, Scotty, will you please show us the 2007 SPL report when it comes out ??

[starchief]

We're real big spenders aren't we! :banana2:

[tm4tj]

Hey chief, it's not how much you spend, it's what you buy with it that counts............VFM

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Feck me - good news - we will be able to pay Marius until the end of the season.  :023:

[caleyblue]

unless we get a offer to good to turn down before the 31st

[johnnykipper]

After finally making a reasonable profit on Rankin I am curious of exactly how much profit the club has made in transfers since we were promoted to the SPL.

Probably out on a few of these so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Ins

Rankin from County - 65k

McDonald from Gillingham - 9k

Paatalianen from Cowdenbeath - 12k

McGuire from Dunfermline - Undisclosed (likely to be a nominal fee)

Wyness from Hearts - unsure, was on loan but not too sure if we had to buy out his contract

Outs

Brown to Celtic - 175k

Rankin to Hibs - 110k

Brewster to United - 200k

Proctor to United - 50k

apart from the above, players have come and gone through free transfers

We seem to have made a profit of almost 400k  :010: :010:

I'm sure I've missed something because it doesn't seem right.  Firstly, you have to applaud the board on what looks like some excellent business. 

Then have to ask where's the money gone? I can't think of any major investments the club has made since the 2 stands were put up, so unless we are still paying this off.. what is actually being done with the money that has been accrued from transfers over the last few years, not to mention the increased attendances and merchandising sales?

If you are included Daddy Brew at ?200K then surely you have to include Pele & John Robertson as the 200K was for Brew the Manager

[Harry Chibber]

After finally making a reasonable profit on Rankin I am curious of exactly how much profit the club has made in transfers since we were promoted to the SPL.

Probably out on a few of these so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Ins

Rankin from County - 65k

McDonald from Gillingham - 9k

Paatalianen from Cowdenbeath - 12k

McGuire from Dunfermline - Undisclosed (likely to be a nominal fee)

Wyness from Hearts - unsure, was on loan but not too sure if we had to buy out his contract

Outs

Brown to Celtic - 175k

Rankin to Hibs - 110k

Brewster to United - 200k

Proctor to United - 50k

apart from the above, players have come and gone through free transfers

We seem to have made a profit of almost 400k  :010: :010:

I'm sure I've missed something because it doesn't seem right.  Firstly, you have to applaud the board on what looks like some excellent business. 

Then have to ask where's the money gone? I can't think of any major investments the club has made since the 2 stands were put up, so unless we are still paying this off.. what is actually being done with the money that has been accrued from transfers over the last few years, not to mention the increased attendances and merchandising sales?

If you are included Daddy Brew at ?200K then surely you have to include Pele & John Robertson as the 200K was for Brew the Manager

was he not still a player at that time  :rolleyes02:

[johnnykipper]

He was but if you think Utd paid 200K for his playing contract fair play to you, you are as naive as I thought you were, good bit of not so creative accounting though. :021:

[Harry Chibber]

He was but if you think Utd paid 200K for his playing contract fair play to you, you are as naive as I thought you were

matters not the reason, a transfer fee was still paid

good bit of not so creative accounting though. :021:

were you expecting a full financial forecast for the next 4 years  :021:

[Scotty]

He was but if you think Utd paid 200K for his playing contract fair play to you, you are as naive as I thought you were

matters not the reason, a transfer fee was still paid

Was it ? Dundee Utd were paying in installments for both Brew (compensation) and Proctor (transfer fee) and there is/was a lot of discussion/speculation as to whether they ever paid in full.........

Anyhoo, that particular deal aside, the bottom line is that we are still a loss making side who need to pull out some good cup revenue or transfer profits each year to break even. The last couple of years have been decent for us but the simple fact is that most years, any unexpected revenue simply goes to keeping us in the black.

This year, the 'profit' from the Rankin deal might offset the increased wage bill, otherwise i fear we will make a loss because of our early cup exit.

[Harry Chibber]

He was but if you think Utd paid 200K for his playing contract fair play to you, you are as naive as I thought you were

matters not the reason, a transfer fee was still paid

Was it ? Dundee Utd were paying in installments for both Brew (compensation) and Proctor (transfer fee) and there is/was a lot of discussion/speculation as to whether they ever paid in full.........

Anyhoo, that particular deal aside, the bottom line is that we are still a loss making side who need to pull out some good cup revenue or transfer profits each year to break even. The last couple of years have been decent for us but the simple fact is that most years, any unexpected revenue simply goes to keeping us in the black.

This year, the 'profit' from the Rankin deal might offset the increased wage bill, otherwise i fear we will make a loss because of our early cup exit.

why would we be making such a loss each season when our infrastructure has hardly changed since we were in the lower divisions. We were in the Black when we were promoted, our salaries haven't increased so much and if anything should be matched by our increased attendances and extra tv revenue.  There hasn't been any massive changes on the merchandising side of things, the 2 stands seem to be our only real major investments and were sponsored and contributed to by Tulloch

Obviously there will be a lot of things I have missed but on the whole we should be up a fair bit of cash.  Maybe saving up fr something i.e. a fourth stand, a rainy day or a big signing

might just have gone in the back pockets

[caleyblue]

though id read somewhere we are now paying most of the players about the same but will be more than when we were in the first divi

[Scotty]

why would we be making such a loss each season when our infrastructure has hardly changed since we were in the lower divisions.

off the top of my head ....

We have quite a lot more backroom/non-playing staff

We have a far larger playing squad

Our pre-season now includes a foreign training camp

Wages are higher but not ridiculously so

Bonuses are higher and based on a percentage of the SPL payout for final league position

We have more responsibilities/costs associated with non first team squads (U19s / reserves etc)

Because of the club licensing scheme we now have specified minimum standards to reach in every area of the club's operation from lux levels of floodlights, to equipment in medical rooms, to customer areas, to all sorts of other things. Because we are in the SPL, our standards are also set at a higher level than if we were in div 1 and we have to constantly make sure repair and maintenance of these standards is met. We must also make sure that all staff have been put through certain levels of certifications in their area of expertise, and maintain those certifications.

We were in the Black when we were promoted, our salaries haven't increased so much and if anything should be matched by our increased attendances and extra tv revenue.  There hasn't been any massive changes on the merchandising side of things, the 2 stands seem to be our only real major investments and were sponsored and contributed to by Tulloch

Obviously there will be a lot of things I have missed but on the whole we should be up a fair bit of cash.  Maybe saving up fr something i.e. a fourth stand, a rainy day or a big signing

might just have gone in the back pockets

We were in the black by virtue of some nice cup runs and things like that. we are not making money hand over fist and I really think you should retract the "back pocket" comment as I find that offensive to people who are working hard to make sure we have healthy accounts each year. There may be some spending that you could question here and there, but for the most part, as a shareholder, I have seen (or heard) nothing untoward and certainly nothing deserving of the claim made.

In our first SPL season (04/05) we made a loss of 102K because of the rental cost of Pittodrie

In season 05/06 - as shown in the report - we made a gross profit of around 220K (before tax)

In season 06/07 I believe we also made a profit, cant remember details though as I dont have my copy of the accounts to hand

In season 07/08 I believe we may make a small loss due to the offset of Marius' wages against Rankin transfer and no cup run.

Because of the way our financial year does not mesh with our playing season, I think the Mark Brown money is in the 05/06 accounts and the Brewster/Proctor money in the 06/07 accounts or perhaps spread over both but at the end of the day, both figures have a large part to do with profits made in 06/07 and 05/06.

Bottom line is that we just about break even each season but transfer dealings and cup runs should hopefully ensure that year-on-year we maybe slowly increase our positive bank balance but its not going to buy us a new stand or a(nother) star player anytime soon.

[Alex MacLeod]

To be fair Harry these are the things that keep us afloat. There are costs to go to games. There are costs to stage games. Too many of the games at home are under-subscribed so other monies have to be found to subsidise them. Whether theres 3000 or 7000 we need to pay the same policing and security costs and those are probably the biggest part of the matchday budget. I'm sure that if we can establish ourselves over the next three or four years the crowds will increase and we will be in a position to utilise the profits from selling players to better advantage. Until then its frugal budgeting to keep us above water.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I think that you have got it spot on there Scotty.

[Guest scotty broon]

Hey chief, it's not how much you spend, it's what you buy with it that counts............VFM

As a matter of interest , how much of the Rankin cash[ just using him as an example] will Brewster get to use in the transfer market? In these days of clubs being basically skint it seems like most managers[ in the scottish game at least] have to rely on on Bosmans.

[Scotty]

I think that you have got it spot on there Scotty.

Must put that in my signature somewhere  :004:

As a matter of interest .... while looking for something else, I came across my copy of the accounts for 2007 and whilst I wont post them in full, a few snippets make interesting reading based on the above conversations .....

In 2006 we made a profit of just under 220K, in 2007 this rose to 280K

In 2006, after the AGM our balance in the bank was 200K, in 2007 that rose to 430K

In 2006 we had 82 staff, in 2007 it was 92

In 2006 employment costs were 1.65m, in 2007 it dropped to 1.61m

we seem to be running a tight ship, the bank balance looks good, employment costs are under control and there is no evidence of financial mismanagement ..... i look forward to the next accounts in May 2008 that will - as i suggested earlier - probably show a slight loss due to the two factors i mentioned but still see us having a nice healthy positive bank balance.

[Glebeict]

  It seems a waste of time and money to have that preseason trip to Italy each year.

[tm4tj]

bah humbug :010:

[Charles Bannerman]

  It seems a waste of time and money to have that preseason trip to Italy each year.

Having been on it (at my own expense) in 2006, I would venture to disagree.

[Glebeict]

  I would put the money to add a player. I am sure Italy is very nice and all but the team always seem to start slowly. A few much tougher pre season

  games at home would help this and might even make a few pennys.

[alimci]

Having just been browsing through The Arab online shop, I despair yet again at the range of items available to the ICT fan wishing to actually THROW money at the club. We don't have much more for sale than East Stirlingshire. Why is it so difficult to source and sell stuff?

For example, there are LOADS of female fans, who may not necessarily want to wear replica tops. What options are available? A t-shirt with PINK writing. Are the club colours pink and white? I think not.

Continue rant ad infinitum....

I just think a huge potential financial input is being wasted.

[Alex MacLeod]

At the moment there's nowhere to store and display additional stock.