The Scottish Football Debate

[SMEE]

Im suprised no one has mentioned the two progs shown on BBC1 Scotland on Mon and Tues regarding the shambolic state of the Scottish game. I thought it may have sparked debate on here if nothing else.

Well...my point is .............and its one that wasnt mentioned once (that I heard), and its a serious problem, which i think is contributing heavily to the decline of standards in the scottish game.

And it is..........COMPUTER games/internet. Think about it.....how many kids in UK, as a whole, are sat glued to a screen of some description these days, instead of being out with a football? I know its largely true of my 3 kids and most of there freinds too.

I really think that is a major factor in the demise of the game

[CaleyD]

I've not mentioned it because I thought the programmes were a waste of TV License payers money.

For a start there was no real fan representation in the entire discussion, just the same old group of football chums sitting around having a wee chit chat about how bad it all was and stroking each others egos by saying how great each of them was doing in their own little way to try and bring about improvements.

Far to much talk on resurrecting and/or saving old institutions, traditions and ways of doing things and very little about what positive action can, should and is being taken.

[old caley girl]

Agree wholeheartedly with Caley D. Same old same old. Everyone on the programme talked a lot but listened very litte IMO

[Charles Bannerman]

And it is..........COMPUTER games/internet. Think about it.....how many kids in UK, as a whole, are sat glued to a screen of some description these days, instead of being out with a football? I know its largely true of my 3 kids and most of there freinds too.

Smee... you highlight a very valid but at the same time a very long recognised factor which relates to performance not only in football in Scotland but in sport as a whole across the entire affluent, developed world.

It must be 20 years now since I dubbed this "the Nintendo factor" (a term which just about dates itself!)

This is one of a number of factors in our kind of society which mean that youngsters take a lot less exercise and practise sport to a much lesser extent than they did until a generation ago.

However the phenomenon is so spread out across a number of countries and variety of sports that it is difficult to identify it specifically with the demise of football in Scotland. It is very probably a contributory factor in absolute terms but doesn't help to explain the relative component of this.

I also think that football in Scotland suffers from a large degree of delusional optimism and expectation that what happened during a golden age is and actually should be the norm. At club level, Aberdeen fans are also especially guilty of this.

Any country which surveys its footballing past and sees, through a rose coloured mist, an ultimate panacea in Archie Gemmill's goal should take a serious look at itself.... and should perhaps also stop criticising the English for continually banging on about 1966. At least they won something there as opposed to a meaningless goal at the end of one of the most thoroughly embarrassing episodes in Scottish fooball history.

[Gabby]

The "ninetendo effect" is just an excuse.

Every country in the developed world has computer games and the internet so if this was a significant issue then every sport in every developed country would be in attendance decline. This is simply not the case.

[SMEE]

However the phenomenon is so spread out across a number of countries and variety of sports that it is difficult to identify it specifically with the demise of football in Scotland. It is very probably a contributory factor in absolute terms but doesn't help to explain the relative component of this.

I agree, its not a problem Specific to Scotland/Uk.....but it seems to be more problematic here. The likes of Holland, Spain, Germany, Italy, Japn, USA not too mention a whole heap of African nations seem to be able to advance while the Scottish game goes into a slump. The children in most of these nations are subject to the same distractions, yet The kids in the countries seem more motivated to get off their asses and participate in physical activities.....in Scotland/UK, the game manufacturers seem to be winning and have a firm grip on Children

Edited March 8, 2012 by SMEE

[+Fraz]

Computer games have been the scapegoat for a raft of problems from school shootings to poor school grades to obesity and now apparenty the demise of the Scottish game, I'm sure someone on here even mentioned they might be one of the reasons more children/young people don't attend at TCS. In any event computer games are no different to watching a tv show or a DVD/BR in that they have people stuck on the sofa. I love gaming but everything in moderation (except Mass Effect 3 this week!) If parents have a real concern that their child if spending to much time indoors then it is up to them to get them off the laptop, tv, xbox or whatever, if they don't then quite frankly that's just lazy parenting.

I believe there are plenty of things potentially stopping young people going out and playing football with the possibility of becoming (good) players and computer games may be a tiny part of it but no more. Other examples could be fear of child getting hurt in some way where the parent can't see them, alcohol, general unhealthy lifestyle, poor or no support/training, lack of facilities, cost; - the list goes on.

[Charles Bannerman]

The "ninetendo effect" is just an excuse.

Every country in the developed world has computer games and the internet so if this was a significant issue then every sport in every developed country would be in attendance decline. This is simply not the case.

Gabby... I think what SMEE is talking about is kids playing on computers instead of playing football as opposed to this affecting attendances. However, you are right to comment that this affects the whole range of developed, affluent countries - which is excatly what I was suggesting earlier.

And I don't know if it's specifically just computer GAMES. There's now a whole range of computer based activities in addition to a plethora of TV channels. Facebook seems to take up a huge amount of people's time.... time they don't spend exercising or practising sports.

In fact if you also listen to the complaints of pub landlords, maybe we are becoming a society which now spends most of its time in front of computer or TV screens getting tanked up on cheap supermarket drink.

[CaleyD]

I also find it strangely ironic that the current generation of parents seek to complain about the activities of the kids when they are essentially the cause and the ones best placed to bring about change.

[old caley girl]

I also find it strangely ironic that the current generation of parents seek to complain about the activities of the kids when they are essentially the cause and the ones best placed to bring about change.

Surely everything in moderation. My boys do have games consoles but are not on them morning noon and night. They have never been allowed to self police this so dont know any different. They also have always been encouraged to play outdoors and are all very interested in playing sport as well as watching sport. IMO this is called parenting and whilst my hubby and I will never be perfect parents we do not let them do as they like as some of their friends are allowed to.

I think schools also have a part to play in getting kids into sport. If they have a good teacher and friends into sport then this helps regardless of home circumstances. Initiatives like free tickets to schools and the community skills programmes have a big part to play in engaging kids.

[Alex MacLeod]

The demise began way before the computer age. The so called reformation of schools and education resulted in less money available to support sporting activity. Extra curicular activity was stopped by a lack of funding to pay interested teachers to supervise and support such activity. When I went to high school I stayed back three times a week for shinty, rugby and athletics and competed on a saturday. None of these had to be budgeted for by my parents. They were all funded by education budget. That doesnt happen any more. I competed in regional and county schools athletics. Thats long gone. Nowadays there are specialist clubs for sport but there's a cost to parents to have their children attend.

The point of demise was also the point at which local authorities began selling of available sporting land for property development. As kids we could also use school playing fields any time we wished. Now, because of the society we live in and the need for additional security around schools, those playing fields are surrounded by high fencing and gates are locked.

Its very easy to blame the computer age but parents are very reluctant, because they dont trust society and fear harm befalls their child, to let them out of their sight and its easier to let them sit in front of a screen than go out and supervise them.

Sadly thats the world we live in nowadays

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

I also find it strangely ironic that the current generation of parents seek to complain about the activities of the kids when they are essentially the cause and the ones best placed to bring about change.

My thoughts exactly . It's the same with all these overweight kids .

[CaleyD]

Precisely OCG, and my statement was perhaps a bit sweeping....each parent can only be expected to hold influence over their own children.

[KingBeastie]

The problems in the Scottish game have mostly surfaced and been hurried along when the game became dictated by money in the late 80's early 90's. There lies the problem IMO.

Also, as an aside the standard of PE and music teaching (with 2 exceptions, 1 in each subject) when I was in school was absolutely f**kin disgusting. But that's an entirely new topic!

[starchief]

I don't see it as simply not producing talent. McGuire starts to become Aberdeen's first choice - goes to Derby's reserves. Allen plays a few games at Dundee United but prefers youth team football at WBA. Wilson would rather the occasional subs bench at Liverpool than Champions League with Rangers etc etc etc. Now, there's always been a percentage that would go south. The difference is that it's not rejects to the bottom and the cream to the top, it's the likes of Lee Cox going from SPL ICT to EFL2 Swindon. Doesn't matter if we produce talent, if they then try to get south to any club whatsoever for a little bit of more cash to the detriment of a better career*.

*I know Cox is English but he's gone from reserves to top league first team back to bottom tier football

[+DoofersDad]

It looks as though English football is on the slippery slope as well with the top teams having their worst season in Europe for many a long year. Both Manchester clubs out of the champions league early and both losing in the Europa league tonight.

Maybe it's the thought of the taxman coming calling that is putting them off their game.

Edited March 8, 2012 by DoofersDad

[Scarlet Pimple]

Well I can hardly imagine that it's to do with poor wages England and these Eastern moguls are bringing in huge sums of money to try to buy success.

But back to the main thrust.- in Canada almost all parents in a family are working. Unless the mother ha several kids and can't trust a nanny . Therefore when she comes home frazzled because she has to go shopping after work etc, she is too tired to worry about what the kids do. Mostly she just wants some peace and quiet.

I don't know what it currently is like in Scotland re football but I still see quite a few kids out in the street here playing mostly street hockey.