Match Day thread ICT v Kilmarnock

[lukemackay]

  On 8/12/2012 at 7:10 PM, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Again it is early days but what pissses off many is that already many seem to be seeing And agreeing about the faults in regard to the team, the selection and the tactics - except Terry Butcher !!

And me

[davie]

  On 8/12/2012 at 7:10 PM, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Again it is early days but what pissses off many is that already many seem to be seeing And agreeing about the faults in regard to the team, the selection and the tactics - except Terry Butcher !!

IHE, I really don't want to rise to this but what the f*ck are you on about. If you have an agenda that wants Butcher out, just have the cojones to say so. Otherwise comment on games that you are at and leave your sniping over the border for someone else.

[+Fraz]

  On 8/12/2012 at 7:49 PM, lukemackay said:

  On 8/12/2012 at 7:10 PM, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Again it is early days but what pissses off many is that already many seem to be seeing And agreeing about the faults in regard to the team, the selection and the tactics - except Terry Butcher !!

And me

So you could say that this is you Luke when you see TB's tactics and team selection-

This is IHE-

Just kidding fellas.

[WYNESS101]

  On 8/12/2012 at 1:28 PM, RiG said:

  On 8/11/2012 at 6:17 PM, CaleyD said:

I doubt we'll be allowed to include the incident in any highlights, and I'm not defending his reaction, but there was no raised hand, attempt to head butt or grabbing/holding of the player.

Clear red card.

OTJ looks like Vinnie Jones

[Joe DiMaggio]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/19236092

From about 3.44 onwards if anyone is still in doubt about it being a red card!

[Oddquine]

Maybe it's just me.......but what qualifications do IHE or a lot of the " Butcher is an incompetent twonk" posters have re football to think they know best bar they watch (some) football matches? I'm not denying that a lot of vociferous and unhappy punters can lose managers their jobs if they shout loud enough....but are a lot of vociferous and unhappy ICT punters the majority of punters, any more representative of the majority than Islamic fundamentalists represent the majority of Muslims?

Way I look at it is that we have, for an area the size of Inverness and environs, a lamentably poor support. A lamentably poor support equates to a pretty crappy income. A pretty crappy income equates to being very limited as to the signing of the calibre of players the lamentably few punters who support think they deserve, because all of the above means ICT cannot afford players who can command the sodding ridiculous wages football players, who are perceived, by the businessmen who gather the profits, to be at least decent in their job in this over-priced business which has, if we are being completely honest, less to do with the actual abilities of footballers , and more to do with the money to be made eventually by hyping them, through the media, into the stratosphere of "selling this one will make us millions".

When football stopped being purely a sport with people involved because they were interested in football, and became a capitalist method of making profit, however that was achieved......the sport of football effectively died........because those who were only interested in profit pumped the money they could get into making sure they were the only ones who could afford to be in a position to achieve anything......and the clubs without that monetary input signed and played only to survive in the leagues in which they took part.

Butcher has, imo, done, so far, reasonably well regarding his remit.....because I am not convinced his remit is predicated on making 100% sure that IHE et al think he puts what they think is the best team on the field so they can be entertained..I'm more inclined to think that his remit is to keep ICT in the SPL whatever that takes.and if that means games punters don't enjoy, but stop us being relegated...........then just suck it up, people.

Given his constrictions re player wages etc, I'm not as inclined as others to trash Butcher, because imo, he has done the best he can within the limits placed on him. But then, I think that if you support a team, you support a team......you don't support a team because they play pretty football....you don't support a team because they do what, in your infinite wisdom, you think they should, and play a team in a configuration you consider is the best one, from the basis of no idea as to anything which has occurred from the last time you saw them playing to the next game (or even the last time you read in this forum, the opinions of other people who did see them playing. in their last game). You support a team because it is your team, warts and all.

It would be really sodding good not to read posts, just two games into the season, whining and moaning and carping. What is it about Highlanders......an inferiority complex?

Edited August 12, 2012 by Oddquine

[+DoofersDad]

Since when when has supporting a club meant you can't express an opinion of the way a club is managed? We know that the club does not have a lot of money but the comments IHE and others make are generally comments about how we deploy the players that we have. The club needs bums on seats and therefore the club needs to hear what it is that prevents people putting their bums on the seats. Expressing a view point which just happens to be critical should be seen as helpful. And whether you like it or not, you should at least respect people's right to express it.

It really is pretty tiresome getting these constant tirades which suggests that saying anything other than that Butcher is the new Messiah should be a hanging offence. I don't know IHE personally but I have seen him at matches and believe me, if a few more people supported the club the way he does the club would be a hell of a lot better off for it and the match day experience would a hell of a lot better.

[Huisdean]

  On 8/12/2012 at 11:51 PM, DoofersDad said:

Since when when has supporting a club meant you can't express an opinion of the way a club is managed? We know that the club does not have a lot of money but the comments IHE and others make are generally comments about how we deploy the players that we have. The club needs bums on seats and therefore the club needs to hear what it is that prevents people putting their bums on the seats. Expressing a view point which just happens to be critical should be seen as helpful. And whether you like it or not, you should at least respect people's right to express it.

It really is pretty tiresome getting these constant tirades which suggests that saying anything other than that Butcher is the new Messiah should be a hanging offence. I don't know IHE personally but I have seen him at matches and believe me, if a few more people supported the club the way he does the club would be a hell of a lot better off for it and the match day experience would a hell of a lot better.

Everyone has the right to express an opinion and would never try to stop that but I think the point Oddquine was trying to make is the constant carping that goes on here by some posters. We could win the Scottish Cup and I guarantee some posters would be on here moaning about this that or the other and that is what is beginning to sicken me about some of our support. I don't think Butcher is the new messiah and, to be perfectly honest, if no real improvement in the team this season, in terms of results and performance, I do think it will be time for a change but let's give the team a chance first before expressing some of the nonsense spouted on here.

I do know IHE, although not seen him for a few years. I know he wholeheartedly supports ICT but some of his posts are so OTT that they border on farce sometimes. I am well aware IHE likes to fish at times but a little less often would be welcome!.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

fer fecks sake - All I ever do is to pass comment on how I see it. My "qualification" is being a player and a viewer for half a feckin century and I like to think that I have an "eye" for the tactical side of the game and when I put a smileymometer together it is how I see it and I provide my rationale which undoubtedly will be challenged by others - but not many and usually the same ones who go down the "IHE is fishing" garbage. They often have not actually read what I have posted and I am usually serious when I post on match threads.

If you look at my Midden report it was highly positive and supportive - even my Brechin one was. I wasnt at the Killie game so I asked questions to look at whether the "lessons to be learned" from my perspective had been followed. And Renegade answered them all and whatever he is he also has an "eye" for the game.

Read the feckin post again : Again it is early days but what pissses off many is that already many seem to be seeing and agreeing about the faults in regard to the team, the selection and the tactics - except Terry Butcher !!

Where in that did I use the word "I" ??!! It was a statement that I gleamed was the fan reaction and added exclamation marks at the end to denote that it was portayed in a sarcastic manner - but there was meaning behind it. What I feel frustrated about and it does appear to be shared is that I (note the I please) would prefer Meekings to Raven - I feel that playing Shane wide is totally wrong for the team and for Shane - I feel that playing McKay up front alone at home is wrong and I feel that Andrew Shinnie should be played in a more attacking sense. I feel that we play too defensive minded at home and that we find it difficult to attack, panic and often result to hoof tactics. I feel that the low crowd may have been becos of the holidays, the opposition and economic constraints (maybe even the Olympics) but I felt that many of the comments on this thread were frustration that some of us have been heaping praise on a "new dawn", perhaps upped expectation levels and it would appear that we regressed. And I feel that it is partly due to the tactics employed and not the performance of the players.

I may well be wrong but that is how I see it - I hope to be disproved and I will be the first to say that I got it wrong - but Butcher is not a messiah and he is human - but I will criticise if I feel that it is justified.

It is Butcher's main task to keep us in the SPL but I feel that it is also his responsibility to provide entertainment. If he does'nt then he has to take the flak.

[CaleyD]

  On 8/12/2012 at 1:28 PM, RiG said:

  On 8/11/2012 at 6:17 PM, CaleyD said:

I doubt we'll be allowed to include the incident in any highlights, and I'm not defending his reaction, but there was no raised hand, attempt to head butt or grabbing/holding of the player.

Clear red card.

What's your point caller....I clearly said I thought it was a Red Card, just that it wasn't nearly as bad as some were trying to make out.

It's also pretty clear from that image that Fowler is pulling his own shirt

[CaleyD]

  On 8/13/2012 at 10:44 AM, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

fer fecks sake - All I ever do is to pass comment on how I see it.

And more often than not when you don't see it!!!

[Libero]

  On 8/12/2012 at 1:28 PM, RiG said:

  On 8/11/2012 at 6:17 PM, CaleyD said:

I doubt we'll be allowed to include the incident in any highlights, and I'm not defending his reaction, but there was no raised hand, attempt to head butt or grabbing/holding of the player.

Clear red card.

What is abundantly clear from the photo is that Fowler would most certainly have needed a change of underwear ASAP!!

[CaleyD]

[Scotty]

finish above County and more bums on seats .... yup, thats two good aims for the season !!!!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Feck me - what will Oddquine et al feel about a wee kid and a feckin Jeggie being a tad negative - what feckin qualifications do they have ??

[RiG]

  On 8/13/2012 at 1:40 PM, CaleyD said:

What's your point caller....I clearly said I thought it was a Red Card, just that it wasn't nearly as bad as some were trying to make out.

It's also pretty clear from that image that Fowler is pulling his own shirt

Ha ha! Yeah I know you weren't disagreeing about the card it was more the shirt pulling.

That would make a good caption competition I think...

[davie]

  On 8/12/2012 at 11:51 PM, DoofersDad said:

Since when when has supporting a club meant you can't express an opinion of the way a club is managed? We know that the club does not have a lot of money but the comments IHE and others make are generally comments about how we deploy the players that we have. The club needs bums on seats and therefore the club needs to hear what it is that prevents people putting their bums on the seats. Expressing a view point which just happens to be critical should be seen as helpful. And whether you like it or not, you should at least respect people's right to express it.

It really is pretty tiresome getting these constant tirades which suggests that saying anything other than that Butcher is the new Messiah should be a hanging offence. I don't know IHE personally but I have seen him at matches and believe me, if a few more people supported the club the way he does the club would be a hell of a lot better off for it and the match day experience would a hell of a lot better.

With all due respect Dad, that's not what's happening here. A contrary opinion isn't necessarily a tirade. What is happening is that some people are clouding the issues by using fairly ridiculous hyperbole and personalisation and people respond to that rather than the content of the argument. I think that the way things are going points to a fairly fundamental split emerging in the fans and what they want. Are we to be a lower league highland sourced club, or are we a cosmopolitan one? Are we prepared to live with the consequences of another relegation because we play cavalier football? Are we prepared as a support to take a share of the responsibility if it doesn't pan out? Or do we want a club that challenge in the SPL with the rules that come with it? Your choice, but I just hope that the club survives the choices that seem to be currently being made.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

:lol: :lol: :lol: But there are tirades on this thread that are personalised - and the hyperbole is some posters perception of a contrary opinion. I suspect that most of the posts on this thread are heartfelt and borne out of frustration. The fundamental "wish" of most again appears to enjoy a day out at the footie and to be entertained to a degree. When the feck did we ever play cavalier football in the SPL ? Again most posters on here simply would like to see us trying to play the ball on the deck, for the players to look as if they are playing for the shirt and for the management to alter their tactical spin and selection. We ALL want the club to stay in the SPL but when you pay good money in the cause you deserve some return.

Open yer feckin mind and look at it from the eyes and voice of somebody else

[davie]

What's the red card for? I certainly recognise that there are tirades from both sides of this argument, and there have been several posts that advocate attacking football even if it means going out of the league. Like you, I've never seen us being cavalier in the SPL but with all due respect that's not what I said, we have been playing the ball on the deck more (both sides did) and there was team spirit on show on saturday. I have a far more open mind than you might credit me for, and believe me I've been listening. I'll refrain from the yellow things.

[Huisdean]

  On 8/13/2012 at 6:41 PM, davie said:

  On 8/12/2012 at 11:51 PM, DoofersDad said:

Since when when has supporting a club meant you can't express an opinion of the way a club is managed? We know that the club does not have a lot of money but the comments IHE and others make are generally comments about how we deploy the players that we have. The club needs bums on seats and therefore the club needs to hear what it is that prevents people putting their bums on the seats. Expressing a view point which just happens to be critical should be seen as helpful. And whether you like it or not, you should at least respect people's right to express it.

It really is pretty tiresome getting these constant tirades which suggests that saying anything other than that Butcher is the new Messiah should be a hanging offence. I don't know IHE personally but I have seen him at matches and believe me, if a few more people supported the club the way he does the club would be a hell of a lot better off for it and the match day experience would a hell of a lot better.

With all due respect Dad, that's not what's happening here. A contrary opinion isn't necessarily a tirade. What is happening is that some people are clouding the issues by using fairly ridiculous hyperbole and personalisation and people respond to that rather than the content of the argument. I think that the way things are going points to a fairly fundamental split emerging in the fans and what they want. Are we to be a lower league highland sourced club, or are we a cosmopolitan one? Are we prepared to live with the consequences of another relegation because we play cavalier football? Are we prepared as a support to take a share of the responsibility if it doesn't pan out? Or do we want a club that challenge in the SPL with the rules that come with it? Your choice, but I just hope that the club survives the choices that seem to be currently being made.

I think this hits the nail on the head very well. The choice does appear to be boiling down to this and apathy from the footballing public of Inverness. Oh and one more point, while we all like to be entertained when we go to see football, it never has and never will be guaranteed when attending a football match (well maybe if you support Barcelona). The excuse from some posters that they are not going back until the team becomes more entertaining doesn't wotk for me anymore and certainly not at this stage of the season

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

  On 8/13/2012 at 7:23 PM, davie said:

What's the red card for?

Bait

[lukemackay]

  On 8/13/2012 at 2:28 PM, CaleyD said:

looking fabulous as per that last one is me but im not smart enough to wear sun glasses

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

It is like one of those before and after adverts - possibly fer Captain Morgans. :laugh:

It reminds me of ma Karaoke fave

[NoIInTeam]

Whilst I sometimes disagree with IHE, especially when he is trying to be funny, his football logic isn't always wrong (best you're getting). If you don't go to football to be entertained then that is up to you doesn't make sense to me. However, let's give it a few more games eh to see how the squad settles. We mostly agree the offering is better this year and players appear to be playing for the manager but a win or two will settle the nerves a bit amongst as all.

Keep the faith!

[monthecaley]

a fairly similar game to st mirren - good in spells, but ultimately let ourselves down. that defensive stramash for the killie goal had me thinking of esson's flap last week. if we can be more clinical in our spells of domination, then these draws will start turning into victories.

tudor-jones has really let himself down, but i'm willing to stick by him. he can be a big player for us this year if he cuts that nonsense out.

penalty save from esson was brilliant, remember the mark brown days when a penalty given against us was a surefire goal?