Butcher offski?

[TopSix]

Fingers crossed the management team are still with us by the weekend. Still shocked and bemused by this. Hibs? Really?

[Renegade]

I seem to recollect an interview with Marsella a while back which said he and Butcher can find it quite frustrating when they really want a player, but don't have a big enough budget to sign him.

 

Make of that what you will.

[Yngwie]

I seem to recollect an interview with Marsella a while back which said he and Butcher can find it quite frustrating when they really want a player, but don't have a big enough budget to sign him.

 

Understandable, but Fenlon would have said exactly the same about Hibs. Whatever budget you have, you want more.

[Yngwie]

Manager Terry Butcher is taking training with the team as usual today in INVERNESS

 

 

Unfortunately the players were sent on a 25 mile run, in bare feet.

[Council Juice]

I would agree with RiG that Hibs are a bigger club with a bigger fan base, bigger budget, excellent training facilities now etc but in terms of competition level I see the only step up for an SPL manager is either to the OF or the Championship up the way as this is where their competition scope is increased. 

Question is there any players in the Hibs squad that anyone would take over our 1st XI? I can't really say there are any shoe ins.

I do fear losing Warren as Hibs defence is murder and they need a leader back there. I can't see them getting McKay. Foran will either be loyal to Butcher or ICT. Not sure which.

[TopSix]

Hibees telling me it's not only our manager their club is interested in. Hearing rumours Terry may not be first choice with all of the Hibs board.

[Ritchie Sacramento]

Shiels , Billy Reid other possibilities perhaps ?

[Zoid]

Hibees telling me it's not only our manager their club is interested in. Hearing rumours Terry may not be first choice with all of the Hibs board.

 

Care to expand on that TopSix

[RiG]

I would agree with RiG that Hibs are a bigger club with a bigger fan base, bigger budget, excellent training facilities now etc but in terms of competition level I see the only step up for an SPL manager is either to the OF or the Championship up the way as this is where their competition scope is increased. 

Question is there any players in the Hibs squad that anyone would take over our 1st XI? I can't really say there are any shoe ins.

I do fear losing Warren as Hibs defence is murder and they need a leader back there. I can't see them getting McKay. Foran will either be loyal to Butcher or ICT. Not sure which.

 

I wouldn't take any of the current Hibs players. They are all rancid.

 

If Butcher was to go I would expect he would make a beeline for the Meekings who is an utterly brilliant defender. Even if Butcher stayed I'm resigned to losing him in the near future he's that good.

[Libero]

The worst thing about this whole scenario is the uncertainty. Not knowing what's going on is a nightmare.

 

If Tel stays then id be over the moon. He has built a great team, great back room staff, great working relationship with the board and has a small but loyal band of fans backing him to the hilt.

 

If Tel leaves then he has played a huge part in growing this club and has ensured that his name will be firmly imprinted on this clubs small but impressive history. Managers come and go so I look forward to the next boss coming in and building on the work that Tel has put down

 

One way or another I just want this sorted sooner rather than later so we can concentrate on the football and get back to supporting the boys on the park

[Proctor]

I know football operates in a different reality to the real world but I can't see why he would leave a stable job in an area he loves to go to a club with chronic problems. I really hope he stays because I don't think the job of growing the club is done yet.

[PerfICT]

If he goes, I think the lack of support will have a lot to do with it. He is entitled to expect the crowds to be increasing in response to league position and performances, but they're getting smaller if anything. It must be pretty gutting.

 

I agree with most of the players at risk - he'd go for the spine of the team (Warren, Meekings, Draper, Foran, McKay) and/or possibly Shinnie. Any of these would be a huge loss. The only ray of hope is that 2 or 3 players have all voiced their doubts in his leaving....or is that just wishful thinking?

Edited November 6, 2013 by PerfICT

[Huisdean]

Anyone who thinks the Hibs job is not a step up for Butcher is deluding themselves. Sure, Hibs may be rubbish just now but the potential for that club is, sadly, a great deal more than ICT. They have a major stadium, a purpose built training facilty, crowds double to treble ours (when they are not playing particularly well)and are a "big city" club.

As for some folk saying Butcher could get better than Hibs in England, dooes anyone seriously think an English Premier league team would appoint him and even if you go to the Championship, it is likely to be one of the lower positioned sides that would go for him. A managerial job at one of Scotland's "bigger" clubs is a realistic ambition for TB but not for anything beyond that.

If TB goes then so be it, we repalce him and move on as the club has always done. It is crucial the club get the appointment correct but the good thing about having TB as manager is that it has raised the profile of the club along with recent results.

[Broonerz]

Anyone who thinks the Hibs job is not a step up for Butcher is deluding themselves. Sure, Hibs may be rubbish just now but the potential for that club is, sadly, a great deal more than ICT. They have a major stadium, a purpose built training facilty, crowds double to treble ours (when they are not playing particularly well)and are a "big city" club.

As for some folk saying Butcher could get better than Hibs in England, dooes anyone seriously think an English Premier league team would appoint him and even if you go to the Championship, it is likely to be one of the lower positioned sides that would go for him. A managerial job at one of Scotland's "bigger" clubs is a realistic ambition for TB but not for anything beyond that.

If TB goes then so be it, we repalce him and move on as the club has always done. It is crucial the club get the appointment correct but the good thing about having TB as manager is that it has raised the profile of the club along with recent results.

No disputing that Hibs are are a bigger team, but what potential is there? Will never win the League, and  may win the odd cup. Given Rangers will undoubtedly come back to the top league, TB will have 18 months to achieve a cup win for Hibs. Something he is as likely, if not more likely to do with ICT, given the timescales he will have to work in.

[gingerjaggy]

 

Anyone who thinks the Hibs job is not a step up for Butcher is deluding themselves. Sure, Hibs may be rubbish just now but the potential for that club is, sadly, a great deal more than ICT. They have a major stadium, a purpose built training facilty, crowds double to treble ours (when they are not playing particularly well)and are a "big city" club.

As for some folk saying Butcher could get better than Hibs in England, dooes anyone seriously think an English Premier league team would appoint him and even if you go to the Championship, it is likely to be one of the lower positioned sides that would go for him. A managerial job at one of Scotland's "bigger" clubs is a realistic ambition for TB but not for anything beyond that.

If TB goes then so be it, we repalce him and move on as the club has always done. It is crucial the club get the appointment correct but the good thing about having TB as manager is that it has raised the profile of the club along with recent results.

No disputing that Hibs are are a bigger team, but what potential is there? Will never win the League, and  may win the odd cup. Given Rangers will undoubtedly come back to the top league, TB will have 18 months to achieve a cup win for Hibs. Something he is as likely, if not more likely to do with ICT, given the timescales he will have to work in.

 

He wont have 18 months to win a cup as anyone can win a cup even with Rangers back in the top flight. You have to look at the old firm, two Edinburgh sides, maybe both Dundee sides  but more UTD than the Dundee and Aberdeen as the big clubs in Scotland. Motherwell are not part of that they are middle of the road who have been doing great recently but they don't get above 10,000 a gate. We have to remember that however frustrating the crowd numbers are in Inverness we are still a young side. Even Ross County probably have a bigger core support than us because they have been around for a while to develop and lay foundations. As a club we have been around for just under 20 years and yes there were supporters of both clubs that jumped ship but it wasn't a lot in the scheme of things. Butcher is frustrated like the rest of us that we cant get more bums on seats but unlike the teams I have mentioned we wont get dramatic increases because of a period of success. Issues remain about price and facilities and Entertainment in Scottish Football but when the happier days are around these clubs can get back a certain number of fans because they choose not to go every week for a certain reason but they remain supporters and will attend when they need to. We don't have that, we have a core support of around 3,000 and maybe a few floaters who may turn up for the big games e.g. Derby and maybe promotion. As a club Caley Thistle will continue to grow and hopefully we will grow a larger fan base over the years and improve the facilities and maybe the stadium but that will take time. To get more fans the young need to be invested in which is what the club is doing. I became a supporter that way, i'm English and had never heard of the club until I moved to the north. I went to game with my dad and I got hooked but even though i cant go regularly any more i will still support the club and attend games when I can. These bigger clubs have been around for over 100 years we have not even reached a 5th of that time scale. It will be disappointing to see Butcher leave when we are in the middle of such a great period in our clubs history but if he does go without the first Europe adventure and first national trophy to be won  he will have helped lay the foundations for that. Hibs are a bigger club and regardless of the old firm the challenge is to turn a major name in Scottish back into contention of doing something in the league and in cups. We shouldn't kid ourselves just because we have had one great season and in the midst of another that overall we should see Hibs as below us. Caley Thistle will hopefully grow but the club will remain long after Butcher.  

Edited November 6, 2013 by gingerjaggy

[ANDYCAM]

Getting tired of the  crowd attendance slant, the facts are, in comparison to Inverness the population differentials are roughly

 

Edinburgh x 10

Glasgow  x 12

Dundee x 3

Aberdeen x 4

 

if you include the population density surrounding these cities these figures further increases.

 

You also have to take into account the disparity in the transport infrastructure

 

Work it out, but by my reckoning we don't do that badly with our crowd numbers.

 

Lets also not forget the fans who do turn up week in week out

[Yngwie]

the potential for that club is, sadly, a great deal more than ICT.

 

The potential for Hibs is exactly the same as for ICT, ie to finish as high as 2nd in the league and/or to win a cup. The only difference is that we are more likely to achieve one of those this season than Hibs are.

[KingBeastie]

Just one?!

[ICT_Away]

What I don't understand is the motivation. We know that money's not the main driver or else he would have gone to Barnsley. I can only guess then that he wants to manage on a bigger stage.

As it stands the way this can be achieved is: do well in Scotland -> go to championship club -> get promotion to the premier league

The question then is, where is Butcher most likely to get a move to the championship from and how quickly is that going to happen. We know, from the Barnsley affair that his success at Inverness got him an offer so there is no impediment to a championship move from his current role. Hibs are a bigger club but will take time to turn around and there is no guarantee if success, this seems to be a high risk long term path to get there. The smart move is to stay where your stock is high and the team is performing well, that will get him his championship move in the shortest period of time.

[SMEE]

If he goes, I think the lack of support will have a lot to do with it. He is entitled to expect the crowds to be increasing in response to league position and performances, but they're getting smaller if anything. It must be pretty gutting.

 

I agree with most of the players at risk - he'd go for the spine of the team (Warren, Meekings, Draper, Foran, McKay) and/or possibly Shinnie. Any of these would be a huge loss. The only ray of hope is that 2 or 3 players have all voiced their doubts in his leaving....or is that just wishful thinking?

I CT has a higher percentage of the Citys population going to their games than Hibs do! If Hibs were to attract the same level of support, based on population as ICT does...theyd be getting about 30 000+ at their games

[Dargo20]

Not often I agree with Graham Spiers but his piece in todays Herald Newspaper contain some wise words of caution for Mr Butcher

 

 

Hibs in the past decade has proven quite a graveyard for promising managers. In their different ways, just ask John Collins, John Hughes, Colin Calderwood or Pat Fenlon.

In fact, six of the last eight Hibs managers have left under a cloud, either via the sack or some other rumpus. So the omens are not good for any promising figure who goes in there.

Butcher is the clear favourite for the Hibs job. The question he has to ask himself is, does it make sense to go there?

He may ultimately believe that, in coming up for five years at the helm of Caley Thistle, it is time for a change. He cannot stay at the Highland club forever. ICT's crowds are depressingly low, in spite of their recent success, and Butcher may feel he has given as good as he can at the club.

If Butcher does leave for Hibs it will mark the end of one of the greatest manager/club acts in recent Scottish football history. Butcher and Caley Thistle have been tremendous to behold, a story of progress, colour and fine football achievement.

At Easter Road, will he find the same? Hmmm

 

 

[PerfICT]

I don't disagree with your stats or sentiments regarding crowds - we are where we are and there have been plenty other threads on this. I just think that this is a factor in Butcher's mind. Did anyone else hear is comment after DUFC QF "......those who turned up saw an exciting match"? There was definitely a hint of frustration in his voice (felt like he wanted to say "bothered to turn up").........or maybe I'm just paranoid!

[slip]

Maybe tb has not heard these figures. ... its a sad reflection on the league in general. Not heard any news yet. Has he been seen today?

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Terry was seen leaving the stadium yesterday afternoon ostensibly heading for Edinburgh. Today the BBC indicate he is in Edinburgh. That might indicate we will hear tonight if he is going or of if he has taken the sensible option and returned to ICT to maximise what he has started. 

[HighlandCop]

Former Hibs manager John Collins on BBC stating Terry Butcher could move Hibernian in the right direction as long as there is no "interference from above"!!!