(Racist) Moron of the Week

[Guest sophia]

Gordon Strachan recently suggested we should have a weekly award for the fan that displays the most moronic attitude.

Well today at the rear of the North Stand we had a winner.

After Rosco's crude challenge on Rusell Latapy, which was quite rightly punished with a caution, the remark of

" he didn't see him because he wasn't smiling" was heard.

Bad enough, but the shout was followed by laughter by not a few.

This is quite incredible.

The section where the shout came from was visited by a couple of stewards afterwards.

The hope was that the moron had been shopped, but alas no, they made their way towards pitch side unaccompanied.

Whilst we have morons like this in our midst we lump ourselves with others who are unable to self police.

I invite all to condemn racist behaviour.

[RiG]

I thought I heard that being shouted as well but I wasn't sure if that's what it was or not. It came from my right hand side so it would have been (in theory) someone in Section D or C in the North Stand. Can't believe someone would say that and amazed no one immediately around him said anything.

The section that was visited by the stewards was not where the shout came from. No idea why they came into our section - maybe they had made a complaint about it?

[Guest sophia]

I was in section D, so if E is nearer the main stand, it came from there.

To be more precise, it was several rows from the rear of that section.

All the fans in that area would have heard the shout and from where it came.

We all heard it across the aisle, let there be no doubt about where it came from and what was said.

I invite RIG, you've already had one chance, and everybody else to condemn such racist behaviour.

[dead_ball_specialist]

Sophia, people like you are the most intollerant Fascists on the planet. This reminds me of a similar hoo hah a few weeks back about the police threatening to arrest and charge any fans who shouted anything 'homophobic'.

It sounds from your account like the guy shouted a light hearted joke - hardly anything malicious. I expect you want to see old TV shows like In sickness and in Health, Rising Damp, and Only Fools and Horses banned for containing similar jokes?

Your assertion that this bloke be arrested and subject to ritual denigration and humiliation reveals a nasty authoritarian streak that usually lies under the surface of political crusaders like youself.

When I was at Uni I had to read 'discipline and punish' by Michel Foucault. The main theme of the book is his observation that a "carceral continuum" runs through modern society, from the maximum security prison, through secure accommodation, probation, social workers, police, and teachers, to our everyday working and domestic lives. All are connected by the (witting or unwitting) supervision (surveillance, application of norms of acceptable behaviour) of some humans by others. He couldn't have been more right!

You demand that we 'self police'. Again this reminds me of the movie 'Fahrenheit 451' where the TV starts telling people to go outside and search for 'enemies of the state'. I'm sick and tired of political correctness. It's becoming increasingly pervasive and intrusive. People like you blur the line between the serious and the frivolous and in so doing create cynicism and resentment, undermining the very cause that you claim to champion.

[Scotty]

I will happily condemn this as both moronic and racist behaviour and will go further and challenge those around the person to "name and shame".

I would also hope the club take a leaf out of Motherwell's book and take quick and decisive action as it seems there is a cut and dried case here where multiple people heard this comment quite clearly.

Given that the club almost barred a lifelong supporter for merely 'suspecting' the use of a racial slur - an accusation that was later confirmed to be false by numerous parties unconnected to the supporter - then I would expect the offender to be identified and dealt with very quickly and very publicly.

I thought comments like this had ended with the cancellation of tv programs like "Love Thy Neighbour" back in the 70s !!! There is no room for comments like this at our stadium or within our support and I look forward to seeing our club not bury its head in the sand over this issue

[Scotty]

DBS - there is nothing remotely acceptable or 'frivolous' in commenting that you did not see a black person because they werent smiling. End of story. You can call it humorous if you want, I call it racist.

If the person meant it as a joke, it was simply not funny and does have racial overtones. Unlike some things that 'suddenly' become unacceptable because of 'political correctness' this old chestnut has been floating around as unacceptable for decades so ignorance is no excuse. Would the same person have made the same comment about another (white) Falkirk player ? If they had, would it have been 'frivolous' ? It is wrong, wrong, wrong and I just cannot believe that anyone can find a way to justify the comment.

I dont often agree with Sophia, but on this occasion I do. DBS you mention 'self-policing' as if it were a bad thing. Our support has been largely self policing for years and I have previously witnessed it in action at Love Street where animal noise and comments about a particular fruit were directed towards a certain Mr Quitongo. It happened once in that game, but it did not happen a second time as it had been 'dealt with'. Sophia has only asked that we condemn racism, and no-one should have a problem with that. On this occasions she hasn't even gone as far as I have which is to suggest the culprit is named and shamed .............. which I believe they should be. Passive acceptance of racism will not make it go away.

[dead_ball_specialist]

DBS - there is nothing remotely acceptable or 'frivolous' in commenting that you did not see a black person because they werent smiling.

Well that's your opinion dude, I happen to think in the greater scheme of things there are more important things to worry about in the world.

Nobody (well perhaps Sophia) would demand that someone be arrested for making blonde jokes, ginger p*be jokes, fat jokes, midget jokes etc. I see nothing malicious at all in the accused's comments. He isn't (like the Quitongo case) denigrating black people any more than someone calling Robson 'ginger p*bes' on another thread is denigrating redheads.

Joking that Latapy is harder to see in the dark is not qualitatively or quantitatively equivalent to comparing Africans to apes. How exactly was his joke 'hateful' or 'offensive'?

Would the same person have made the same comment about another (white) Falkirk player ?

This quote is a classic example of common sense going straight out the window when it comes to issues like racism. People are so afraid of being called a 'racist' that they over-compensate and effectively start to treat black people differently from everyone else. I hope you stay consistant and demand the arrest and ritual humiliation of all those who make jokes about Jimmy Calderwoods skin colour next season.

You can call it humorous if you want, I call it racist. It's just plain wrong, wrong, wrong and I just cannot believe that anyone can even attempt to justify it. Ignorance is no excuse. There is no room for comments like this at our stadium or within our support and I look forward to seeing our club not bury its head in the sand over this issue.

[Guest sophia]

DBS, Was it you?

[Scotty]

DBS - there is nothing remotely acceptable or 'frivolous' in commenting that you did not see a black person because they werent smiling.

Well that's your opinion dude...

It certainly is, and I am comfortable with it.

Would the same person have made the same comment about another (white) Falkirk player ?

This quote is a classic example of common sense going straight out the window when it comes to issues like racism. People are so afraid of being called a 'racist' that they over-compensate and effectively start to treat black people differently from everyone else.

so would they make the same comment ?? you didnt answer the question .....

I hope you stay consistant and demand the arrest and ritual humiliation of all those who make jokes about Jimmy Calderwoods skin colour next season.

No I would not - JC pays a lot of money to make his skin that colour .... Russell was born into his.

[RiG]

I was in section D, so if E is nearer the main stand, it came from there.

Are you sure? I sit in Section E and it came from my right and it sounded more like someone in Section D.

I invite RIG, you've already had one chance, and everybody else to condemn such racist behaviour.

I have already condemned it so I would appreciate it if you didn't try and lecture me on this subject thank you very much :003:

[dead_ball_specialist]

No it wasn't me Sophia, but I can rest easy now that I know you're on the case.

[Guest sophia]

RIG,

You said "I have already condemned it". Not on here you haven't.

For the avoidance of doubt, I for one would appreciate it if you would.

I looked over after the shout, I could see the local reaction in the area several rows from the back of the stand adjacent to the steps separating D & E.

There is absolutely no doubt where it originated from.

There is enough defensive language in your two posts to make me think that you may have some knowledge of the exact location of the shout.

dbs,

Were you in section E on Saturday?

Do you know who shouted the racist comment?

If you do and you are so certain with your argument perhaps you would like to invite the person to present himself.

dbs wrote "people like you are the most intollerant Fascists on the planet".

A word to the wise, if you are going to use hyperbolic language and spelling such as this, it's probably best not to mention that you are university educated.

[CaleyD]

dbs wrote "people like you are the most intollerant Fascists on the planet".

A word to the wise, if you are going to use hyperbolic language and spelling such as this, it's probably best not to mention that you are university educated.

As per discussions late last week/early this week on this forum.  I would request that you desist from crossing the line between the discussion in hand and personal, unrelated jibes.

[RiG]

RIG,

You said "I have already condemned it". Not on here you haven't.

For the avoidance of doubt, I for one would appreciate it if you would.

*sigh*

Here is my first post in full:

I thought I heard that being shouted as well but I wasn't sure if that's what it was or not. It came from my right hand side so it would have been (in theory) someone in Section D or C in the North Stand. Can't believe someone would say that and amazed no one immediately around him said anything.

The section that was visited by the stewards was not where the shout came from. No idea why they came into our section - maybe they had made a complaint about it?

I can see the condemnation there.

I looked over after the shout, I could see the local reaction in the area several rows from the back of the stand adjacent to the steps separating D & E.

There is absolutely no doubt where it originated from.

There is enough defensive language in your two posts to make me think that you may have some knowledge of the exact location of the shout.

Of course I had some idea of the location of the shout - I have never denied that and I have offered my thoughts on where I thought it came from.

Given that you claim to know the exact location of the person shouting I trust that you did something about it? I would have done had I known where it came from exactly but my position in the stand only told me one thing - it was to the right of me, quite possibly Section D. That is all I could tell.

dbs wrote "people like you are the most intollerant Fascists on the planet".

A word to the wise, if you are going to use hyperbolic language and spelling such as this, it's probably best not to mention that you are university educated.

Without meaning to go off topic it's a bit pathetic that you seem to have resorted to personal insults to other forum members during this discussion. EDIT: I see Caley D has already covered this.

[Guest sophia]

RIG,

Not quite the same thing I'm afraid, why so reticent?

I could not do anything as I did not and dod not know who exactly shouted the racist comment from Section E.

CaleyD,

Are you joking?

I was called a fascist for goodness sake! A gentle retort was pale in comparison. No rebuke for the original epithet!

Do you condone this, or getting back to the point do you condone the racist shout?

I've already noted your views on homophobic abuse.

[RiG]

RIG,

Not quite the same thing I'm afraid, why so reticent?

Not the same thing to everyone or simply not good enough for you? And if you are even for one second trying to suggest that I know who was responsible by appearing reluctant to divulge information/thoughts/opinion then you are very much mistaken.

I could not do anything as I did not and dod not know who exactly shouted the racist comment from Section E.

But you claim you knew the exact location it came from:

There is absolutely no doubt where it originated from.

On a side note, given your well known attention to detail when it comes to spelling (and your typical manner of insulting others over their spelling errors) you might want to have a look at your post again.

[CaleyD]

Not joking in the slightest - you will note that I said "personal, unrelated jibes".  In short the proficiency of DBS's spelling and the level of his education have nothing whatsover to do with the discussion.  On the otherhand your comments do lend yourself to being viewed as a fascist (albeit in the opinion of the poster).

Regarding the discussion on this thread, I will not be bullied or coerced into making any comment, and just to try and preempt your response to that...just because someone views this thread and chooses not to comment does not make them a racist by default.

[Guest sophia]

CaleyD,

I am utterly astonished by your post.

Fascists gassed people for their religion and creed, arguing a valid point on a football forum, in my humble opinion, isn't quite in the same league.

Edit:

I'm not the person who first mentioned university education.

I believe it was used to add justification to an argument.

The fact that it was, makes it fair game to use as a counter.

End of edit.

You are not just a person viewing, you have some responsibility on here.

Given that members of the fourth estate trawl these boards looking for a story, you have left yourself quite exposed, it could be argued, by appearing to condone racist abuse.

Equivocation ruined Neil Kinnock's credibility.

[Alex MacLeod]

Oxford English

Fascism n. a system of government characterised by dictatorship, belligerent nationalism, racism and militerism. --Fascist n. adj.

How can someone who feels offended by a rascist remark be linked with fascism?

For the record I was in main stand so was not in a place to hear the alleged coment but I abhor any form of rascism, and that includes comments that refer to Gypsy Travellers, and would think nothing about making official complaint if I knew who made the remark.

[Mee]

Of course racism is to be condemned, and those guilty of it named and shamed.

Which leads me to wonder why, seeing as you feel so strongly about it Sophia, why YOU didn't make more of an effort to go and find out who it was at the time, being that you were reasonably close by and justifiably outraged. Don't you think those people who stand by and do nothing while racist acts are going on are just as bad as the racists themselves?  :018:

[CaleyD]

I wasn't the one who referred to you as a fascist, I just pointed out that it was a perfectly legitimate statement to make in relation to the discussion and the dictatorial nature of some of your comments.  It was a literal translation of events and comments, not a personal opinion.

I note with interest that you seem to be well versed on my apparent views on homophobic abuse - presumably from these forums and an earlier discussion?  However you do not seem so up to speed on my thoughts on racism which will have received equal, if not higher, exposure on CalyThistleOnline over the years.

If you and any member of the "fourth estate" wish to spin my decision not to comment (at this time) on this thread as some kind of support for racist abuse then that is your choice.  I am comfortable in my views of such things and I am comfortable that those who know me, and who's opinions mean anything to me, will be aware of where my thoughts on these things stand.

I don't buy into the school of thought which reads "if your not with me, your against me", but I do admire your continued efforts at bullying and coercing.  I still won't be drawn...not yet anyway.

Just because I have a position of responsibility on this site doesn't mean I am not entitled to express myself in the same manner as everyone else.  I have the same choices as every member on this site and I can choose where, when and how I wish to reply to any discussion.

[Guest sophia]

Mee,

You are correct I should have done more.

Whilst not being ideally positioned to do anything other than say the shout was made from an area, I regret that I did not.

It is also a matter of regret that those who were sat immediately adjacent to the person did nothing.

My first post does make mention of the stewards approaching the area of the shout a few minutes afterwards.

My reaction was to turn to my friend (yes) and suggest that somebody was being lifted for the racist abuse that we heard.

The fact that I saw this as justified salves my conscience.

Mee, being a music buff, what is the line from Lynard Skynard that should be put?

Or maybe that's not the best place to go!

CaleyD,

Sorry you see my posts as bullying.

I just find it curious that you and others would not wish to use the opportunity to do what is right.

I'm just the messenger.

Mee chastised me for not being pro-active, what might she think of you?

[Mee]

:001: He's the sexiest most interesting man I've ever met  :001:

[RiG]

My first post does make mention of the stewards approaching the area of the shout a few minutes afterwards.

My reaction was to turn to my friend (yes) and suggest that somebody was being lifted for the racist abuse that we heard.

The fact that I saw this as justified salves my conscience.

The only time stewards came into Section E was to talk to a couple of guys who were behind me on the left which is not the area where the shout came from. Indeed they seemed to know the stewards and appeared to get on pretty well with them. The stewards left and the two people they spoke to remained where they were. No one was lifted by anyone.

[Guest Get_off_the_park_Wyness!]

There seems to be a misunderstanding between most of the posters here. Nobody is condoning racism, the question is whether you can joke about race and where do you draw the lines?