Lennon Attack

[Cinejag]

Neil Lennon may not help himself with the things he says/does. That said no-one deserves the utter madness that he has had to deal with and anyone who thinks it's okay is off their head

[Sorted]

Sorry but Lawwell has cheek "This is Scotland's shame and it is high time Scotland addressed it." erm correct me if i am wrong but are your club not a huge part of the secretaerian problem ? ~Start looking closer to home Mr Lawwell

Fact of the matter is Lennon is a Ned, if you go around winding people up then there will always be some nutter who will decide that they aint having it.

I in no way condone anything that has happened to Lennon but cant help think he has not helped himself with his cheating, moaning and complaining about other clubs, refs, the SFA etc etc etc

I have never quite got this agruement that is continually promoted by a press that will not allow itself to differentiate.

Whilst agreeing that there hugely unacceptable Republican elements within the Celtic support that sing totally unacceptable songs about causing destruction and inflecting misery on people who oppose their view point, I cannot see how you can take the Neil Lennon abuse agenda and turn it round to be, in some way, the responsibility of his club? This is surely just another attempt to hide the real cause and give justification to the abusers.

I don't condone but........... I'm not a racist but......... I'm not homophobic but........

Please focus on what is happening here. A football manager is being terrorised, abused and attacked in, alledgedly, a 21st century democracy and some people are spending more time looking for reasons to justify, explain or seek reason on behalf of his pursuers. It is shameful

Edited May 12, 2011 by Sorted

[mikeyrob73]

I didnt try and turn it around and say that it is the problem of his club, but Lawwell saying that this is Scotlands shame, when his own club have as many religious bigots and associated nutters as the other half of the old firm.As far as i am concerned they are BOTH Scotlands shame. i detest the old firm and all that they stand for, where religion comes before football. i have lived in Lanarkshire, i have seen the Celtic-Rangers/Catholic-Proddie divide first hand.

[PullMyFinger]

I didnt try and turn it around and say that it is the problem of his club, but Lawwell saying that this is Scotlands shame, when his own club have as many religious bigots and associated nutters as the other half of the old firm.As far as i am concerned they are BOTH Scotlands shame. i detest the old firm and all that they stand for, where religion comes before football. i have lived in Lanarkshire, i have seen the Celtic-Rangers/Catholic-Proddie divide first hand.

His club is also Scottish so is part of the problem. The sooner all clubs, not just the publicised ones get together to sort out this mess the better for all parties.

[Alex MacLeod]

Peter Lawwell is correct. This is Scotlands shame. Not the fact that Lennon or others are being targetted but the fact that, in this day and age when many around the world are striving for peace among all men, we, the majority, in Scotland still tend to turn a blind eye to the minority who practice religious intolerance around us. It is Scotlands shame and it is our shame.

[lukemackay]

id never encourage people to abuse someone else in any way.

but neil lennon has managed to single handedly bring the reputation of scottish football down the pan im not saying people didnt have a dim view of scotish football before lennon came in but he has done us no favours.

we need more terry butchers and less neil lennons in my view.

[robbylad]

anyone on this forum suggesting that lennon has brought it on himself..... have a wee word with yourself!!! if someone dislikes you or disagrees with what you say, are they entitled to punch you in the face? send nail bombs? threaten your family?

if your answer is yes, heaven help us all!

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOOTBALL HERE!!!!!

GROW UP AND JOIN THE REAL WORLD!!!!

THIS IS SPORT, NOT POLITICS OR RELIGION

[CaleyD]

Do we even know that this guy was a Hearts fan, or what motive he's given for the attack?

It seems to have just been assumed that he was a Hearts fan and he attacked Lennon because he was Catholic and any other reason is nonsense because their can be not other reason for disliking him and everyone who dislikes him is sectarian or bigoted!!!

[BornCaley]

Heres the problem

Glasgows Catholic & Protestant schools! Yes there are rivalrys between schools accross the country and we all leave that rivalry when we grow up, mature and leave. But these schools are a bigotary conveyor belts. This is where sectarianism and OF fans are born and unfortunately some kids take it with them when they leave.

So Mr Salmond! Get your Education Ministers off their a*rses and sort it at grass roots not once their in the terraces

[PullMyFinger]

Heres the problem

Glasgows Catholic & Protestant schools! Yes there are rivalrys between schools accross the country and we all leave that rivalry when we grow up, mature and leave. But these schools are a bigotary conveyor belts. This is where sectarianism and OF fans are born and unfortunately some kids take it with them when they leave.

So Mr Salmond! Get your Education Ministers off their a*rses and sort it at grass roots not once their in the terraces

Nonsense, it's learned in the home, the playground, in school, at work, everywhere. It's all around us FFS. How many OF fans do you know who don't have strong opinions about what's going on? I know plenty. Are they in agreement? No! It's all about what you're conditioned to and not just in a Glasgow school. It's Scottish Society in general that has the problem.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke.

[dougiedanger]

Do we even know that this guy was a Hearts fan, or what motive he's given for the attack?

It seems to have just been assumed that he was a Hearts fan and he attacked Lennon because he was Catholic and any other reason is nonsense because their can be not other reason for disliking him and everyone who dislikes him is sectarian or bigoted!!!

Well he had a Hearts top on, so a wild guess he is a Hearts fan.

The fact that you do not like Neil lennon does not make you a bigot, but in this case there is overwhelming evidence of a widespread, cowardly sectarian campaign against Neil Lennon and other Catholics in this country. Partaking in or tacitly approving of this campaign probably does make you a bigot.

Continually being in denial of the existence of such a campaign and continuing to place the emphasis on the target of the campaign, the worst by a mile in the history of Scottish football and a national disgrace?

I'm really not sure what that would make you.

[PullMyFinger]

But he's ginger! How can we be bigots?

edit - forgot tic smiley

Edited May 13, 2011 by PullMyFinger

[CaleyD]

Do we even know that this guy was a Hearts fan, or what motive he's given for the attack?

It seems to have just been assumed that he was a Hearts fan and he attacked Lennon because he was Catholic and any other reason is nonsense because their can be not other reason for disliking him and everyone who dislikes him is sectarian or bigoted!!!

Well he had a Hearts top on, so a wild guess he is a Hearts fan.

The fact that you do not like Neil lennon does not make you a bigot, but in this case there is overwhelming evidence of a widespread, cowardly sectarian campaign against Neil Lennon and other Catholics in this country. Partaking in or tacitly approving of this campaign probably does make you a bigot.

Continually being in denial of the existence of such a campaign and continuing to place the emphasis on the target of the campaign, the worst by a mile in the history of Scottish football and a national disgrace?

I'm really not sure what that would make you.

Think you need to check your facts on the wearing of a Hearts Top as it has been reported that he was NOT wearing any Hearts colours.

Whilst I wouldn't deny that there are sectarian elements at force in some of what is going on, a lot of it is pure assumption. It's assumed the bullets and bombs are from such elements, but no evidence yet exists to prove this. Rightly or wrongly he's also disliked for many other reasons and whilst it doesn't in any way justify the attacks/threats etc, it could be any one of a number of other things that's been the trigger. As a species, we don't like things we can't explain or square off in our heads and I think it's dangerous that we simply lump everything under the sectarian banner because it somehow allows us to bring reason to it.

That's not denying that there's a problem with sectarianism and bigotry and these things could well be motivated by such, but let's not go making assumptions before we know all the facts and making it look like a worse problem than it might actually be.

[TheKnowledge]

WOW! Deep breath in, and exhale.........

Are we not supposed to be talking about the attack on Neil Lennon at Tynecastle? McGinn, McCourt, Scotland's shame, Bullets and bombs in the post? Different topics guys.

So, back on topic, and just incase folk are mixing their incidents up, one Hearts fan, runs onto the pitch and attacks the pantomime villan with crappy punch. I think that has more to do with Scotland's shame mk 2, alcohol, added with grown men refusing to behave in public as they know they should.

Also, someone asked is it right to be puched in the face if you say something disagreeable? Well, I wouldn't feel right throwing one, but sometimes I do curtail what i'm saying depending on the size, and proximity of the person i'm talking about, because I understand that somethings should be kept to yourself, unless you are deliberately setting out to wind folk up.

I don't hate Romanian's but..............

[Scotty]

it has been reported that he was NOT wearing any Hearts colours.

Think it is the Telegraph that need to check thier facts ...... going by the video on their own site and some stills on Google, it appears he has a 2007/08 away top on under the shell suit !

Still image

2007/08 strip

Telegraph's own still from video

[CaleyD]

Fair Do's....small point in the grander scheme of things anyway.

[bdu98196]

So many view on here all regarding sectarinism, now unless I have missed it in the news (which I may have) who actually said Lennon was attacked for his religious beliefs, perhaps thats people on here jumping to assumptions. Nothing to do with the fact he accused Hearts as a club & players of not playing and trying against Rangers and actively assisting the Ibrox club win the SPL? Surely that inflamatory remark cant be acceptable when he is questioning the intergrity of fellow professionals? This is not the first comment of such nature that he has made this season - perhaps if people look beyond NL as the victim and the religious bigitory which he has endured, there is an under lying case of him behaving in an inappropriate manner that the SFA are failing to deal with.

I dont recall in any post I have made suggesting he brough on or deserved the violence or abuse brought on by the narrow minded majority focusing on his religon, but in terms of his other behaviour towards other professionals in football and his total contempt for authority in the game certainly isnt doing anything to make him a popular character throughout all football fans (not just those looking for an excuse to vent religious bigitory), so perhaps the SFA are to blame for being weak at acting on these comments?

While he shouldnt be subject to this abuse in his job and in no way can it be acceptable to be 'driven' out of his job for these reasons - what about the behaviour he has displayed throughout the season do people feel its acceptable? I dont - every other manager in the SPL has conducted themseves in a much more dignified and professional manner - so why cant he?

Its a shame that we now live in an overly PC time you cannt dislike someone for the sake of them being an unpleasent person without people looking for undertones of a bigoted nature, to either say you are racist, sexist or sectarian...........

[HumbersideDude]

So many view on here all regarding sectarinism, now unless I have missed it in the news (which I may have) who actually said Lennon was attacked for his religious beliefs, perhaps thats people on here jumping to assumptions.

The Guy has been charged with breach of the peace and assault, both aggravated by religious prejudice. See hear

[Sorted]

So many view on here all regarding sectarinism, now unless I have missed it in the news (which I may have) who actually said Lennon was attacked for his religious beliefs, perhaps thats people on here jumping to assumptions. Nothing to do with the fact he accused Hearts as a club & players of not playing and trying against Rangers and actively assisting the Ibrox club win the SPL? Surely that inflamatory remark cant be acceptable when he is questioning the intergrity of fellow professionals? This is not the first comment of such nature that he has made this season - perhaps if people look beyond NL as the victim and the religious bigitory which he has endured, there is an under lying case of him behaving in an inappropriate manner that the SFA are failing to deal with.

I dont recall in any post I have made suggesting he brough on or deserved the violence or abuse brought on by the narrow minded majority focusing on his religon, but in terms of his other behaviour towards other professionals in football and his total contempt for authority in the game certainly isnt doing anything to make him a popular character throughout all football fans (not just those looking for an excuse to vent religious bigitory), so perhaps the SFA are to blame for being weak at acting on these comments?

While he shouldnt be subject to this abuse in his job and in no way can it be acceptable to be 'driven' out of his job for these reasons - what about the behaviour he has displayed throughout the season do people feel its acceptable? I dont - every other manager in the SPL has conducted themseves in a much more dignified and professional manner - so why cant he?

Its a shame that we now live in an overly PC time you cannt dislike someone for the sake of them being an unpleasent person without people looking for undertones of a bigoted nature, to either say you are racist, sexist or sectarian...........

That's a very interesting comment, similar to Nick Griffin's quote - "We can't talk about immigration without being accused of being racist." Not sure about you but I know that when he says that, that is exactly what he is being and will continue to be.

As for liking or disliking of people, I was always brought up to believe that you actually had to meet someone and engage in dialogue before you were in a position to form a like or dislike (love or hatred) of them. Thankfully, this has held me in good stead as I go forward in life. My children are now brought up the same way which can only be good for us a society.

People often develop hatred of certain evil figures that have has an impact on their lives. This can be legitimate as even though they haven't met. For example, people hate Ian Brady, Myra Hindley, Ian Huntley etc. without ever having come into contact with them in most cases. All are child abductors, abusers and murders.

What is it that Neil Lennon has done that makes him warrant the same status in your eyes? What heinous crime has he committed to match the above?

Or would you care to share with us, the meetings and difficulties you have had with Neil Lennon, the person not the pantomime devil, that gives legitimacy to your view?

Edited May 13, 2011 by Sorted

[bdu98196]

Comparing me to Nick Griffin :redcard::redcard: (highly uncalled for - no comment I have made has any racist or undertones of religious intollerance) - highly disgusted by that Sorted.

So the fact that his behaviour and continual questioning of the professionalism and integrity of all his peers is acceptable behaviour and that of a 'nice' man? What do any of those issues have to do with his religon - obviously all comments you chose to over look? Regardless if this was NL or any other manager in the SPL that had made these comments or behaved this way through the season then I would still deem it unacceptable conduct that the authorities should act upon - and yes people can cite extenuating circumstances in the case of NL but does it make the behaviour more acceptable?

And to re-itterate again none of that still makes the campaign waged against him acceptable.

Edited May 13, 2011 by bdu98196

[Caley Mad In Berks]

So many view on here all regarding sectarinism, now unless I have missed it in the news (which I may have) who actually said Lennon was attacked for his religious beliefs, perhaps thats people on here jumping to assumptions. Nothing to do with the fact he accused Hearts as a club & players of not playing and trying against Rangers and actively assisting the Ibrox club win the SPL? Surely that inflamatory remark cant be acceptable when he is questioning the intergrity of fellow professionals? This is not the first comment of such nature that he has made this season - perhaps if people look beyond NL as the victim and the religious bigitory which he has endured, there is an under lying case of him behaving in an inappropriate manner that the SFA are failing to deal with.

I dont recall in any post I have made suggesting he brough on or deserved the violence or abuse brought on by the narrow minded majority focusing on his religon, but in terms of his other behaviour towards other professionals in football and his total contempt for authority in the game certainly isnt doing anything to make him a popular character throughout all football fans (not just those looking for an excuse to vent religious bigitory), so perhaps the SFA are to blame for being weak at acting on these comments?

While he shouldnt be subject to this abuse in his job and in no way can it be acceptable to be 'driven' out of his job for these reasons - what about the behaviour he has displayed throughout the season do people feel its acceptable? I dont - every other manager in the SPL has conducted themseves in a much more dignified and professional manner - so why cant he?

Its a shame that we now live in an overly PC time you cannt dislike someone for the sake of them being an unpleasent person without people looking for undertones of a bigoted nature, to either say you are racist, sexist or sectarian...........

That's a very interesting comment, similar to Nick Griffin's quote - "We can't talk about immigration without being accused of being racist." Not sure about you but I know that when he says that, that is exactly what he is being and will continue to be.

As for liking or disliking of people, I was always brought up to believe that you actually had to meet someone and engage in dialogue before you were in a position to form a like or dislike (love or hatred) of them. Thankfully, this has held me in good stead as I go forward in life. My children are now brought up the same way which can only be good for us a society.

People often develop hatred of certain evil figures that have has an impact on their lives. This can be legitimate as even though they haven't met. For example, people hate Ian Brady, Myra Hindley, Ian Huntley etc. without ever having come into contact with they in most cases. All are child abductors, abusers and murders.

What is it that Neil Lennon has done that makes him warrant the same status in your eyes? What heinous crime has he committed to match the above?

Or would you care to share with us, the meetings and difficulties you have had with Neil Lennon, the person not the pantomime devil, that gives legitimacy to your view?

Sorted, I think you have the balance a bit wrong. To say that one should not form a liking for or disliking to another person is all very laudible, but with respect, a bit naive.

You are implying that for Neil Lennon not to be liked, he should be in the same category as mass murderers. That is ridiculous. There is plenty that Neil Lennon has done over the years which could lead people to dislike him - a few examples -

1 Blatantly cheating v ICT to get Juanjo sent off

2 Petulance (eg kicking water bottles)

3 Aggressiveness (eg squaring up to McCoist on the touchline)

4 Constant whining about referees

None of this of course warrants the extreme actions displayed against him and his family.

But it certainly could lead him to be disliked by lots of reasonable minded people who have never met him.

[Sorted]

Understand the point you make CMIB but would suggest there is a fundamental difference between dislike and hatred.

The cases you raise would lead many, myself included, to dislike Neil Lennon's behaviour but can, in no way, be deemed legitimate reasons for hatred of the man. Any person of reasonable mind would believe the same.

[Sorted]

Comparing me to Nick Griffin :redcard::redcard: (highly uncalled for - no comment I have made has any racist or undertones of religious intollerance) - highly disgusted by that Sorted.

So the fact that his behaviour and continual questioning of the professionalism and integrity of all his peers is acceptable behaviour and that of a 'nice' man? What do any of those issues have to do with his religon - obviously all comments you chose to over look? Regardless if this was NL or any other manager in the SPL that had made these comments or behaved this way through the season then I would still deem it unacceptable conduct that the authorities should act upon - and yes people can cite extenuating circumstances in the case of NL but does it make the behaviour more acceptable?

And to re-itterate again none of that still makes the campaign waged against him acceptable.

I apologise if you feel it was a direct comparison with you as an individual. That was not intended and not for me to make against someone I don't know.

I do however, stand by my opinion that it is the viewpoint that always looks for justification or logical reason why such incidents occur that allows the crux of the matter i.e. sectarian bigotry, to be ignored. Also at no point, in any of my posts, have I sought to condone, excuse, justify or be an apologist for an of Neil Lennon's unacceptable behaviour. Instead, I have pointed out his failings (in my opinion) and compared them with others of a similar ilk.

Perhaps we should focus on the behaviour of the pursuers not the pursued?

[CaleyD]

So many view on here all regarding sectarinism, now unless I have missed it in the news (which I may have) who actually said Lennon was attacked for his religious beliefs, perhaps thats people on here jumping to assumptions.

The Guy has been charged with breach of the peace and assault, both aggravated by religious prejudice. See hear

That's fairly meaningless at this stage. He'll have been hit with the heaviest possible charge as a matter of course so as to ensure they can get him for as much as possible. Easier for the Procurator Fiscal to do that and then back off on the charges than it is for them to have charged him with a lesser offence and then try to increase the charges.

[dougiedanger]

So many view on here all regarding sectarinism, now unless I have missed it in the news (which I may have) who actually said Lennon was attacked for his religious beliefs, perhaps thats people on here jumping to assumptions.

The Guy has been charged with breach of the peace and assault, both aggravated by religious prejudice. See hear

That's fairly meaningless at this stage. He'll have been hit with the heaviest possible charge as a matter of course so as to ensure they can get him for as much as possible. Easier for the Procurator Fiscal to do that and then back off on the charges than it is for them to have charged him with a lesser offence and then try to increase the charges.

So, to summarize.

The guy in the Hearts top standing in the Hearts end at a Hearts home game running on to the Hearts pitch to attack the manager of the team playing Hearts may not be a Hearts fan.

And the people sending live bombs and bullets to a group of people (not just Mr Lennon), each one with Catholic/Celtic/Irish connections, may not be religious bigots.

Keep it up, Poirot.