Butcher OUT!

[PullMyFinger]

Butcher is going to prove a lot of people wrong. Threads like these nip ma heid!

[Sorted]

To be honest I don't think we could attract a better manager than Butcher.

Interesting point.

Are you basing this on history, his media friendly persona or historical position as a playing legend?

Never been convinced about one and accept two as correct.

At this point I understand I am supposed to shout 'I BELIEVE' and I will be subjected to adulation, the world will be a happy place and we won't get relegated.

There are none so blind as those that will not see. Or something like that.

Who said fanatical fundamentalism was restricted to Islamic dictatorships? Some of the clearest examples post on CTO!

The interesting point is that Sorted interpreted the quote from PIG as saying there is no manager out there who is better than Butcher. I interpret it more as 'this club, due to its geographical location and financial limitations, would be unable to attract a better manager.

Thanks for clarifying my interpretation Alex.

For the record, I share the exact same view as you but come to a different conclusion. Also interested in the word 'better' and how this is measured. If you use the only tools that are readily available i.e. statistics, neither TB or MM would come anywhere near the 'better' category. If you have another tool for performance measurement of a football management team I would be keen to understand it.

[bauhaus]

I rather think that now is not the month to moan our misfortune, we have two big games coming up, then a hard three games in November. The real test will come in December and January. we will have our big injuries back - and had time to get match fit aswell. December and January will also bring around those games against the teams in the lower half again, and that is when our season will be shaped.

Tade works tirelessly but he aint going to get 15 goals this season, he needs someone beside him who will poach of his hard graft. Hayes and Doran will be back to introduce trickery, pace and directness. Cox and Tudor Jones will return to help seal the gaping holes our defence is finding it hard to prevent. Once we have our uninjured first 14-15 regular squad we are nowhere near the worst team in the league.

Take a point from Celtic at the moment, we have had double the amount of injuries they have had, and look at what a difference that has made to them over the last month. You take 4 or 5 players out of Rangers and they will suffer the same way. You take 6 players out of ant other team in the SPL and each would nosedive. Have faith peeple, we will soon be on the march up the table to avoid a relegation battle. I have kept saying if we stay in touch until the injuries ease we will be ok, and I still trust that will be true

[bishbashbosh]

There is only one man that can save us now....................where is Wilsononourwing when you need him?

probably in an old folks home

[Stevie]

I havent posted for a few weeks, lost a bit of enthusiasm with the Munro debacle and the way things were going pre-season. I found myself being critical of Butcher but felt the vast majority of posters were on his side and I couldn't be bothered with keyboard arguing.

Butcher won me over with the turn around in the First Division a couple of years ago, when if I remember right, he changed things and brought Duncan and Rooney into team and ditched Stratford and Eagle.

Trouble now is weve got too many jobbers and loanies (copyright marks) and no team gelling going on. Wether that'll come I don't know. Butchers signing policy seems to be to almost solely centered around the lower reaches of the English leagues

Right now I have no doubt we are the worst team in the league. Our only hope is that the injured boys turn it around.

All we can do is get behind the team, and Butcher. (it must be remembered we had a really good season last year)

There is no way we can get rid of Butcher. Financially it's not at all viable, and playing wise it would be a huge gamble too.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Good post Stevie - personally I am not even close to suggesting that TB should go but his dogged pereverance does suggest to me that he is sticking his head in the sand and not listening to others around him. I really dont think that he ia a good coach but he can make up fer it with his charisma and personality.

[Kind of Blue]

Lets get things into perspective we are 1 point behind the Pars and Hibs despite suffering a horrendous injury spell which is only now starting to recede. I am not being complacent and am obviously not happy at being bottom but 2 good results could move us up a couple of places. Butcher has done a great deal over the last few years to demonstrate that he is a good manager and I have no doubt that he and Malpas will get the team moving in the right direction.

[Guest Mahonio]

I am with all you guys defending Butcher, IMO and probably a few others as well, we will be fine this season, and as Kind of Blue says, we are only 1 win away from jumping 1 or maybe 2 places. Look at Aberdeen, they couldn't buy a win before they played us yet now they are 7th, Brown hasn't changed them much and also their board stuck by him and its working for them, so why not us.

IMO, Sat is a must win and with it being at home, coupled with Dunfermline's recent poor run of form, i can see us scraping a 1-0 win but mainly because the team will want to repay the fans from what was a poor, poor performance on Saturday.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Butcher and Malpas cannot be fired because it would well-nigh bankrupt the team. However, as time goes along and wins still do not materialise, the current set-up could become untenable.

The stability of the Managers' position offers a fall-back position for them which could become a disincentive to getting the best out of the team and the big question is will Terry and Mo lose more heart than they could already be suffering by viewing the apparently lacklustre and no-real-fight effort against St Johnston. Heh!Terry seemed awfully muted in his comments about the team's performamce. So, why did the team not play-on from the St Mirren high instead of raging along with confidence? THAT scares me.Losing is one thing but rolling over and dying at the first whiff of a North wind is not the spirit of a real Highland team. Read into that whatever you like.

So, is it a case of too many Southern boys in the team with no real heart? If so they are doing themselves no favour at all because if they do have real ability do they think it will shine through on this insipid canvas and attract the attention of the brilliant Southern Managers? Answer--not bl--dy likely.

The problem also is this fantastic loan situation scenario which always will be tentative and terrifying ..here today and gone tomorrow. Players with one foot in Inverness and one mind in Birmingham--just the ticket for Caley Thistle.Yeah right!

Terry , try telling them to fess-up or f..k off. Bench them and play some 2nd or 3rd team lads in their stead..that will show them withouhaving to sceam at them. This is serious business so send the flipping message.

Or is it a form of complacency setting in every time they win a gam? It looks as if Tansey can have a go but blooters the ball frequently over the bar which is far from profeessional and indicates a lack of desire to get it right on the training ground.

Same old , same old.

Also, Tade must be brought back from the front line and used as a battering ram type prober since He is very unlikely to score a lot of goals right up front(if any more at all).

The rot could become a very large rut....'nuff said Terence and Maurice?

P.s Get your gear on Terry and show them how it is done for ten minutes on the park. That would send a REAL message to the younger element, I would warrant. Certainly shake their complacency , if nothing else.

Think I am being too tough, friends? Feel free ........

[buckett]

I think the frequent reference to journey-men in this thread and similar discussions is quite significant.

What we have here is a Highland-based team largely manned by players with no real passion for the town they supposedly represent. And why should they - they weren't born here, they don't belong here and they have no intention of living here any longer than their loan spell/shop-window time.

They must clearly be motivated as it's in their professional interests to perform well on the pitch, something which, as yet, doesn't seem to be happening.

To my mind, that is the nature of our current problem and it's the manager's job to sort it out. I'm certainly not calling for Butcher's head - I am confident he's up to the job.

Just wish he'd hurry up!

[Scarlet Pimple]

Well said Buckett.

[CaleyJagsMad]

Ridiculous to suggest sacking Tel, we lost crucial players in summer and have had a huge injury list. The young players need time to get used to SPL football and a change of manager will not help their progress, in fact it could hinder it.

We're hardly cast adrift at the bottom, and there's 22 games till the split. The team needs support and that includes the management so let's put the dummies back in and back the team!

[Renegade]

I see time and again people mentioning the injury list and while of course there are some injuries that cannot be avoided and just happen, surely someone has to question what the players are doing in the Terry Butcher/Maurice Malpas training schedules. I find it quite hard to believe that all these injuries just occurred "by chance" and I would think that perhaps there is perhaps something the players are doing here that could lead to potentially more injuries. I'm no training expert, but I have heard from people who were involved in the training a few years ago say that it IS the training that has caused so many injuries. People slated Brewster either right or wrongly for his training methods, so why don't the same rules apply for Butcher? I certainly don't remember Brewster having as many injuries as this in a one-er when he was on the go in either of his two spells.

[RiG]

I don't think we had that many injuries under Butcher last season in the SPL nor the SFL 1 title winning season.

[CaleyD]

Renegade, looking at it from a higher level you have a point, but when you drill down in to the injuries then it's not so straight forward.

For a start, I think 3 of our injuries are shoulder related...not sure what can be done in training to prevent that.

You then have injuries that have occurred on the pitch and have been a result of tackles/fouls...little you can do to avoid those.

Under Brewster it seemed that injuries were resulting from pulled muscles/ligaments occurring from fatigue and the "injured in training" line seemed to be common place.

What's more, there was a lot of reports emanating from within about players complaining about training procedures and being so tired from that they barely had the energy to compete on a matchday....I've not heard any of that whilst Butcher has been in charge.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Perhaps some individuals were carrying too much responsibility / blame on their shoulders. Perhaps it may have helped if somebody in authority openly shouldered some of the blame.

Ouch - I have just dislocated my shoulder.

Ma old pal Buckett is closer to the truth. If we were in this position by trying some more of the home grown produce and/or chucking them out - then I would have more sympathy.

[Renegade]

Renegade, looking at it from a higher level you have a point, but when you drill down in to the injuries then it's not so straight forward.

For a start, I think 3 of our injuries are shoulder related...not sure what can be done in training to prevent that.

You then have injuries that have occurred on the pitch and have been a result of tackles/fouls...little you can do to avoid those.

While the crux of what you say is true, could they not be doing things in training that are going to make them more susceptible to injuries? It's certainly possible. Also, in regards to the players views on training under Butcher, while nothing has come yet so far from those at ICT, there have been issues at other clubs. Supposedly the training at Brentford was terrible and at Sydney the players used to meet in secret in the afternoons to go over training again; so much was their disgust at the training implemented by Butcher during his time there. It would be foolish discount this side of things just yet.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Isn't Maurice in charge of training ?

[Laurence]

The team has the manager it deserves

The Fans have the manager they deserve

The City does not have the manager it deserves

[AJS]

The team has the manager it deserves

The Fans have the manager they deserve

The City does not have the manager it deserves

Is this supposed to mean something?

[davie]

Welcome back Laurence. Wotcha on about?

[WYNESS101]

The team has the manager it deserves

The Fans have the manager they deserve

The City does not have the manager it deserves

Someones being watching the Manchester derby

Edited October 23, 2011 by WYNESS101

[starchief]

Ignore that troll.

[Alex MacLeod]

The team has the manager it deserves

The Fans have the manager they deserve

The City does not have the manager it deserves

Why bring Mike Smith into the talk? He has no links with ICT any more.

[CaleyJagsMad]

I find it quite hard to believe that all these injuries just occurred "by chance"

That's exactly how injuries occur. If there's anything on a football or training pitch field that is virtually completely outwith the control of the management, it's injuries.