Conspiricy Theorists

[Renegade]

Are conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones and David Icke nuts, or are they on the right lines. Alex Jones of course believes in some sort underground society that is gonna take over the world at some point and David Icke believes that the Queen and George Bush are reptile shapeshifting, aliens from space that enjoy drinking blood! Nutters, you couldn't make some of their garbage up.

[starchief]

I'm pretty sure David Icke does make it up. He obviously had a breakdown but I think now this is a nice little earner for him. By the way, there is a 'secret' society running the world - the Bilderberg Group. The staggering thing is how little power the united governments and businesses of this world have. Milosevic blamed them for his downfall but, despite their efforts (as it was set up to stop wars), they have had very little success stopping conflict, terrorism or dictatorships.

[Guest birdog]

Are conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones and David Icke nuts, or are they on the right lines. Alex Jones of course believes in some sort underground society that is gonna take over the world at some point and David Icke believes that the Queen and George Bush are reptile shapeshifting, aliens from space that enjoy drinking blood! Nutters, you couldn't make some of their garbage up.

Any links or arguments to back up your opening statement? Whilst what you have said about David Ike is true there may be some substance in what Alex Jones says, well at least he comes out and presents an argument with evidence to back it up, can you do the same? Why not tell us about some of his theories and debunk them? It would be quite a good discussion, I believe, but your opening post is vague and totally unstructured. Have you ever read any of his work with an open mind or are you basing your judgement purely on the "truth" presented to us by the same governments who invaded Iraq on the basis of WMDs being aimed at us and ready to fire in 45 days?

Your ball mate, use it wisely.

Edited February 13, 2009 by birdog

[Renegade]

I've watched loads of Alex Jones on conspiracy programmes on TV and looked him up on the net and some of what he says may be true, but he's convinced of things like that 9/11 was an inside job. Would you like me to start there?

[Guest birdog]

Yes please.

[Joe DiMaggio]

I've watched loads of Alex Jones on conspiracy programmes on TV and looked him up on the net and some of what he says may be true, but he's convinced of things like that 9/11 was an inside job. Would you like me to start there?

[Guest birdog]

I've watched loads of Alex Jones on conspiracy programmes on TV and looked him up on the net and some of what he says may be true, but he's convinced of things like that 9/11 was an inside job. Would you like me to start there?

That Al qaeda representative is either the dumbest terrorist on the planet or a plant, he almost said where Bin Laden is hiding and he gave out a specific time and date for a terrorist attack. Washington monument 3.09 on October the 12th, be there or be square

[starchief]

It's from The Onion (look up theonion.com). That's a hilarious spoof newspaper/newschannel. My favourite was probably when "if you're late, we won't wait" was applied to Air Force 1, with Bush saying 'I always use this airline, I was their best customer! Well, no more, I was only five minutes from check-in and they refused to wait'.

Don't believe it's a spoof? Read the 'headlines' below the news report. Current top story from them is "Sony Releases New Stupid Piece Of Sh*t That Doesn't F*!&ing Work"

[Renegade]

"Melted" Steel

CLAIM: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800? to 1500?F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750?F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100?F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800? it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832?F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

Simple logic really.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Renegade

[Guest birdog]

Can't be ersed with copying and pasting sections to counter your arguments but here why don't you just explain why all the simple logic here is wrong.

First paragraph would be a good place to start.

WTC COLLAPSE FROM DEMOLITION

Just for starters, 9-11 represented the first collapse of ANY steel-framed building, allegedly from fire. Optimum Flame Temperature of Propane 3500?F, yet your BBQ doesn't melt or collapse when you grill. If you believe Jet fuel can demolish a building with the precision of a demolition team, I submit to you that you are 100% incorrect and urge you to look at the evidence and scientific facts. Seven of 8 airline black-boxes were destroyed that day, yet we are supposed to believe the passport of Satam Al Suqami flew out of his pocket, through the fire, and landed intact in the streets below?

Edited February 14, 2009 by birdog

[Renegade]

The key word is melt. The only people who say that the beams melted are the conspiracy folks. They were really just weakened, thus the building collapsed.

[Guest birdog]

The key word is melt. The only people who say that the beams melted are the conspiracy folks. They were really just weakened, thus the building collapsed.

Strange that weakened beams would snap in such clean and straight lines.

If the heat was so intense that it weakened steel beams, why did the passport survive where 7 of 8 data recorders were destroyed?

I am of an open mind but I am yet to see any evidence to counter the theories of an inside job.

Edited February 14, 2009 by birdog

[Renegade]

http://www.representativepress.org/BowingD...xplosives2.html

Building that are controlly demolished don't buckle.

It's often interesting that conspiracy theorists, will never give up no matter what evidence you throw at them.

[Guest birdog]

Okay I accept that someone saw the building buckle, how did the passport survive and why do those beams look as if they were cut instead of bent?

And what does conrtolly mean?

Edited February 14, 2009 by birdog

[Renegade]

Okay I accept that someone saw the building buckle, how did the passport survive and why do those beams look as if they were cut instead of bent?

I had a gander for the passport thing and the best I could find was this:

Crash-Proof Passport

Hijacker's Passport and a Landing Gear Fragment Alone Survive Fiery Crash

This illustration from Chapter 1 of FEMA's report shows what few pieces of aircraft debris passed entirely through the Towers. A charred fragment of landing gear on the intersection of West and Rector streets was the only piece they traced to Flight 11.

According to ABC News and the Associated Press, the passport of hijacker Satam Al Suqami was found a few blocks from the WTC. ^{1 2} The Guardian was skeptical: "the idea that Atta's passport had escaped from that inferno unsinged [tests] the credulity of the staunchest supporter of the FBI's crackdown on terrorism." ³ Note the passport did not belong to Atta, as is commonly claimed.

Satam Al Suqami was supposedly on Flight 11, the plane that hit the North Tower. In that collision, the building's core absorbed almost the entire airplane, which hit the northeast wall nearly dead center.

I'll just ignore the contolly bit.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Renegade

[Guest birdog]

I can't see that that proves anything.

What does controlly mean?

[Renegade]

Controlled perhaps.

That diagrams the best I could find unfortunately.

I wouldn't say myself that I believe every little thing that shows that 9/11 was not an inside job as I do have unanswered questions myself, but I can't see it being an inside job myself.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Renegade

[Guest birdog]

Controlled perhaps.

That diagrams the best I could find unfortunately.

I wouldn't say myself that I believe every little thing that shows that 9/11 was not an inside job as I do have unanswered questions myself, but I can't see it being an inside job myself.

I am going to withdraw from this discussion now because I have had this conversation many times with people of high intelligence and they have not been able to sway my opinion, you have said yourself that you have unanswered questions, as I do, and I do not believe that you are capable of answering the questions I have. I would love to be able to believe that the most powerful nation on this planet are not capable of of an act such as this but all the evidence presented so far leads me to believe that the USA is capable of an act of this magnitude against their own people in the pursuit of power.

[Renegade]

Alright fair enough.

[Joe DiMaggio]

Controlled perhaps.

That diagrams the best I could find unfortunately.

I wouldn't say myself that I believe every little thing that shows that 9/11 was not an inside job as I do have unanswered questions myself, but I can't see it being an inside job myself.

I am going to withdraw from this discussion now because I have had this conversation many times with people of high intelligence and they have not been able to sway my opinion, you have said yourself that you have unanswered questions, as I do, and I do not believe that you are capable of answering the questions I have. I would love to be able to believe that the most powerful nation on this planet are not capable of of an act such as this but all the evidence presented so far leads me to believe that the USA is capable of an act of this magnitude against their own people in the pursuit of power.

So the people on here don't have a high enough intelligence for you? You're the one who though the spoof video of an Al Qaeda guy who felt he wasn't getting the credit he deserved for the attack was real!!

[Guest birdog]

So the people on here don't have a high enough intelligence for you? You're the one who though the spoof video of an Al Qaeda guy who felt he wasn't getting the credit he deserved for the attack was real!!

Firstly, where did I say that people here were not of a high enough intelligence for me? Secondly I had one look at that video and dismissed it, not as real but as a plant, sorry that I did not examine it closely and sorry I had not heard of the onion.com.

You posted that video, is your post now a deflection tactic as you posted it as a serious attempt to enter the discussion and you want to make me out to be the dumbass? If not good one you pranked me after my third can of beer, you should be very proud.

[Joe DiMaggio]

So the people on here don't have a high enough intelligence for you? You're the one who though the spoof video of an Al Qaeda guy who felt he wasn't getting the credit he deserved for the attack was real!!

Firstly, where did I say that people here were not of a high enough intelligence for me? Secondly I had one look at that video and dismissed it, not as real but as a plant, sorry that I did not examine it closely and sorry I had not heard of the onion.com.

You posted that video, is your post now a deflection tactic as you posted it as a serious attempt to enter the discussion and you want to make me out to be the dumbass? If not good one you pranked me after my third can of beer, you should be very proud.

Good one! I think any one can tell after 30 secs that its a spoof video. Have you ever seen a news report with an 'Al Qaeda representative' and one who wanted credit for the attack with a list of names involved etc 3 or 30 cans of beer i've never seen anyone think one of those news reports are real!

The way you worded your post along the lines of if people of 'high inelligence' can't sway your mind the people you're talking to here wont be able to

[Guest birdog]

The way you worded your post along the lines of if people of 'high inelligence' can't sway your mind the people you're talking to here wont be able to :thumb04:

That post was in direct reply to the quote within the post due to the use of the word "controlly" it was not worded in a condescending manner but I am sorry that your insecurity or vanity have lead you to believe that it was aimed at you as well.

All together now

You're so vain........

[Joe DiMaggio]

The way you worded your post along the lines of if people of 'high inelligence' can't sway your mind the people you're talking to here wont be able to :thumb04:

That post was in direct reply to the quote within the post due to the use of the word "controlly" it was not worded in a condescending manner but I am sorry that your insecurity or vanity have lead you to believe that it was aimed at you as well.

All together now

You're so vain........

Well I wasn't talking about me as I wasn't posting in this topic other than a spoof video. It was the others you were taking to I was on about. Pretty obvious

[starchief]

And somebody said this site wasn't dull? Come on, conspiracy theories or just PM each other.

Yours sincerely

S. Elf Appoint Ed Moderate Or