Sectarian songs?

[DornochCaley]

TV putting these things into our homes had given many a new sense of morality as they see the injustice the Catholic people in N.Ireland

Dangerous line you are crossing here as the said TV allowed me to witness the little child being carried, in his coffin, by his father, referrred to above - the Omagh bombing and many, many more carried out by the IRA.

Yes, there was also comparable things carried out against the Catholic people but two wrongs do not make a right!!

I was having a drink with a colleague after work in a bar in Broxburn, West Lothian. During our pint a collecting box was put round 'for the bhoys' and neither I nor my friend, a Catholic, paid any attention to it.

My friend went to the toilet, on his return he called loudly for the collecting box to be handed to him and gave a donation.

We immediately left that bar and went to the bar across the road with my pal in tears. It transpired that he was followed into the loo and told if he wanted his 5 year old wee daughter to keep her looks he better get money in the collecting box!

Where does the above events give me a sense of morality or an acceptance of injustice to any cause! It just provides me with a sense of futility at the ignorance and inhumanity that still abounds within so called 'educated' people.

Now if you want to bring up the historic argument, fine, all I can feel for is the recent history that I witnessed via the TV and my living in the midst of the bigots on both sides of the divide down in Central Scotland.

Be grateful for what we have here in the North of Scotland and encourage/enjoy it. Leave all that Central Scotland crap where it belongs with the twisted minds that goes with it.

.

I am more than aware of the things that happened on both sides of the divide. But if you look, it was shortly after the news became availible that the biggest increase in IRA supporters/Volunteers happened. Is this coincidence? I think not. Also, after the news started showing these horrific scenes, the IRA also had more supporters from Britian than ever before. Yes. The IRA were scum in the way they went about trying to get freedom. The killing of innocent people can never be condoned. But i think its more the fact the cause they fought for. Many people sympithised with the fact 800 years of oppression had drove these people to do the things they did and it was time for them to get their country back. But the goverment could be to belame. If they decided to give them the country back FAIRLY then there wouldnt have been such a problem. But they didnt. As i said. The British drove the Irish people into doing what they did. So as much as i think the way the PIRA, RIRA and the INLA went about trying to get freedom was wrong and immoral. I think the British goverment are the real ones to belame for driving them to it.

I do not support the IRA. I sympathise with the cause they have fought/are fighting. But not the methods they use. Please dont assume i am in full support of these people.

Sorry for the rant. It wasnt ment to be a rant as such. Just trying to get my own opinion across.

[DornochCaley]

I completely agree. But at the same time. TV putting these things into our homes had given many a new sense of morality as they see the injustice the Catholic people in N.Ireland and that palestinians have had to put up with. Palestine was once a Large country, and due to oppression from the Israilies, Palestine doesnt even exist anymore.

Whilst I agree there have been injustices committed in the name of religion perhaps you should look at your own churches historical involvement in slaughter, oppression and injustice and think to yourself why some of the recent "injustices" may have occurred.

Pope Pius XII signed Concordat with Nazis

Spanish Inquisition

You should also, perhaps, take time to read the "God delusion" it has a very good section in it explaining how organised religion has been responsible for more violent deaths than any other occurrence in the history of human beings and serves no other reason than to control the mass population through fear.

You are correct in your cherry picked views but have a look at the wider picture. The UK government are working hard to maintain peace in Ireland, the Pope is working to put right the Catholic Church's involvement in the holocaust but people still think it is okay to sing offensive songs, just because their own personal views do not see them as sectarian. Whilst people hold similar views to yourself there will never be the peace on earth that your prophet Jesus foretold, let he who is without sin..........

As much as the pope was at fault for deaths of Innocents during WW2, the Catholic chrurch saved more than it was partly responsible for killing(I dont see how RC church is responsible for the deaths, it was the Nazis that killed them)

Also, that thing signed by the Pope was just to make sure the RC church was not touched by the Nazis and Catholics could remain practicing their faith. But of course as we all know, Hitler went back on his word.

[Guest birdog]

As much as the pope was at fault for deaths of Innocents during WW2, the Catholic chrurch saved more than it was partly responsible for killing(I dont see how RC church is responsible for the deaths, it was the Nazis that killed them)

Also, that thing signed by the Pope was just to make sure the RC church was not touched by the Nazis and Catholics could remain practicing their faith. But of course as we all know, Hitler went back on his word.

Since the word "Catholic" initially meant universal, do you not find that these actions were a little like selling the soul of the church to the devil?

What I am trying to get across to you is that the conflict in Ireland is as near as damn it over and I think that even though you are entitled to your views you should share them with people of a like mind. You will not find much sympathy on this forum for your ideas, nor would someone from the other side of the fence. It is great that you are investing so much time and energy into ICT but your ideals on this matter would be best shared with people on a Celtic forum.

It is my belief that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, regardless of how others feel about it, but these opinions should sometimes be kept private in order to avoid opening old wounds. I think you will find that in Scotland a person of any religious denomination will now be treated equally and the situation in Ireland is beginning to balance so bringing these things to the fore is counter productive. I realise that what I am saying here kind of nullifies my thoughts in the "march" thread and I will probably have to rethink them, maybe I should thank you for that.

[DornochCaley]

I do share my views on The Green Brigade forum and all the members on that Forum agree with what i have to say. Its just the mindset of those people. I Complelty get what your saying though. The reason i brought it all up on this forum is i wanted to get the views of people who dont support a side of the old firm and have little to no intrest on the topic.

[starchief]

I gave up on the Northern Irish when, having had peace with the SDLP and UU taking all the risks, the Republican electorate voted for Sinn Fein rather than the non-violent SDLP and the Unionists voted for the anti-peace agreement DUP, instead of the pro-peace UU.

They want war with each other? Fine! Make it independent and let them fight it out between themselves. They won't be missed.

[NigeyBear]

One last thing, there was an incident involving some ICT/Rangers fans a while back singing inappropriate songs towards the Celtic crowd in the South Stand, I made a complaint to the club and supported their requests throughout I would not hesitate in doing the same if I heard any of our own supporters doing the same to a Rangers crowd, please keep the songs of your other team away from ICT.

I can assure you, the lads up in court from that are not Rangers fans.

I beg to differ my friend. 2 out of the 3 of them support Rangers.

[Charles Bannerman]

I am more than aware of the things that happened on both sides of the divide. But if you look, it was shortly after the news became availible that the biggest increase in IRA supporters/Volunteers happened. Is this coincidence? I think not. Also, after the news started showing these horrific scenes, the IRA also had more supporters from Britian than ever before. Yes. The IRA were scum in the way they went about trying to get freedom. The killing of innocent people can never be condoned. But i think its more the fact the cause they fought for. Many people sympithised with the fact 800 years of oppression had drove these people to do the things they did and it was time for them to get their country back. But the goverment could be to belame. If they decided to give them the country back FAIRLY then there wouldnt have been such a problem. But they didnt. As i said. The British drove the Irish people into doing what they did. So as much as i think the way the PIRA, RIRA and the INLA went about trying to get freedom was wrong and immoral. I think the British goverment are the real ones to belame for driving them to it.

Gawd, mate... it's people like you that make me seriously doubt my long held view that the British Government in 1921 should just have let the whole of Ireland go in a oner and left them all to fight like ferrets in a sack.

Maybe my lifelong resentment of the Orangemen has been slightly lacking in balance after all.....

[Scotty]

One last thing, there was an incident involving some ICT/Rangers fans a while back singing inappropriate songs towards the Celtic crowd in the South Stand, I made a complaint to the club and supported their requests throughout I would not hesitate in doing the same if I heard any of our own supporters doing the same to a Rangers crowd, please keep the songs of your other team away from ICT.

I can assure you, the lads up in court from that are not Rangers fans.

I beg to differ my friend. 2 out of the 3 of them support Rangers.

If this is a matter currently before the courts please cease and desist from discussing any details of the case immediately including who the people may or may not support. Failure to do so will result in closure and possible deletion of this thread.

[starchief]

Maybe my lifelong resentment of the Orangemen has been slightly lacking in balance after all.....

That's it though Charles. Neither side sees the balance. Most of Ireland wants a united Ireland but most of Ulster doesn't. There's right on both sides but neither side will see it. Until recently anyway. Then when they get peace, they decide that the peace wasn't perfect enough so vote for the parties least likely to bring it. Sod 'em! (and I've even got strong family connections to the area)

[Kieran]

No, i have always been a Celtic fan. I always be a Celtic fan. I dont see what the problem is tbh. I started supporting Inverness when they were in the 2nd division. They and Celtic where Worlds appart and was little chance they would play each other on a regular basis. BUT as you all know. ICT got promoted and they did play each other regulary. But at that time i was attached to both teams too much to just stop supporting one of them.

I don't have a problem with who you support, it's totally up to you, but I am interested in understanding your reasons for supporting two football teams in the same league / country that's all. Sadly, as DalneighCaley says, a lot of our support feel the need to "support" one of Rangers or Celtic and have ICT as their wee team.

Personally I think, despite what you say, if you admit to being a Celtic fan first and foremost then your support for ICT can, quite rightly, be called into question despite any protests you might have over that. But it's your choice and I don't have a problem with whatever you choose to do.

Well, as i said, i have every reason to support Celtic. My whole family are Celtic fans from Glasgow, im a Catholic. I think i have more reason to support Celtic than most up here do. Most support an OF team just so they can Celebrate winning something.

That's something that pisses me off about some people. The fact you're saying being Catholic is a reason for supporting Celtic. Leave religion out of football...

[DornochCaley]

No, i have always been a Celtic fan. I always be a Celtic fan. I dont see what the problem is tbh. I started supporting Inverness when they were in the 2nd division. They and Celtic where Worlds appart and was little chance they would play each other on a regular basis. BUT as you all know. ICT got promoted and they did play each other regulary. But at that time i was attached to both teams too much to just stop supporting one of them.

I don't have a problem with who you support, it's totally up to you, but I am interested in understanding your reasons for supporting two football teams in the same league / country that's all. Sadly, as DalneighCaley says, a lot of our support feel the need to "support" one of Rangers or Celtic and have ICT as their wee team.

Personally I think, despite what you say, if you admit to being a Celtic fan first and foremost then your support for ICT can, quite rightly, be called into question despite any protests you might have over that. But it's your choice and I don't have a problem with whatever you choose to do.

Well, as i said, i have every reason to support Celtic. My whole family are Celtic fans from Glasgow, im a Catholic. I think i have more reason to support Celtic than most up here do. Most support an OF team just so they can Celebrate winning something.

That's something that pisses me off about some people. The fact you're saying being Catholic is a reason for supporting Celtic. Leave religion out of football...

But Celtic were made BY a Catholic with the intention of Helping Catholics. So it is a Catholic club open to ANYONE.

[maimie]

No, i have always been a Celtic fan. I always be a Celtic fan. I dont see what the problem is tbh. I started supporting Inverness when they were in the 2nd division. They and Celtic where Worlds appart and was little chance they would play each other on a regular basis. BUT as you all know. ICT got promoted and they did play each other regulary. But at that time i was attached to both teams too much to just stop supporting one of them.

I don't have a problem with who you support, it's totally up to you, but I am interested in understanding your reasons for supporting two football teams in the same league / country that's all. Sadly, as DalneighCaley says, a lot of our support feel the need to "support" one of Rangers or Celtic and have ICT as their wee team.

Personally I think, despite what you say, if you admit to being a Celtic fan first and foremost then your support for ICT can, quite rightly, be called into question despite any protests you might have over that. But it's your choice and I don't have a problem with whatever you choose to do.

Well, as i said, i have every reason to support Celtic. My whole family are Celtic fans from Glasgow, im a Catholic. I think i have more reason to support Celtic than most up here do. Most support an OF team just so they can Celebrate winning something.

That's something that pisses me off about some people. The fact you're saying being Catholic is a reason for supporting Celtic. Leave religion out of football...

But Celtic were made BY a Catholic with the intention of Helping Catholics. So it is a Catholic club open to ANYONE.

guess by default, that makes them an irish club too... :angry:

[buckett]

guess by default, that makes them an irish club too... :angry:

Aye - the clue is in the name! :)