Sectarian songs?

[DornochCaley]

As thats completely rejecting my up bringing. I have been brought up a Celtic fans since day one. And when you have come so attached to a club like i have to Celtic, then its not easy to just stop supporting them.

But surely by also supporting ICT you are "rejecting my upbringing" and you have quite easily stopped supporting them from time to time?

No, i have always been a Celtic fan. I always be a Celtic fan. I dont see what the problem is tbh. I started supporting Inverness when they were in the 2nd division. They and Celtic where Worlds appart and was little chance they would play each other on a regular basis. BUT as you all know. ICT got promoted and they did play each other regulary. But at that time i was attached to both teams too much to just stop supporting one of them.

[DingwallAway]

Yeah but i also support Caley. Most people who support an OF team up here dont want to support a little team like Inverness. So instead of supporting their Local team and Celtic/Rangers. They just stick with Celtic/Rangers.

Why don't you just support ICT?

As thats completely rejecting my up bringing. I have been brought up a Celtic fans since day one. And when you have come so attached to a club like i have to Celtic, then its not easy to just stop supporting them.

I was brought up a Celtic fan aswell, used to go down to a few of the games with my uncle back in the days of Larsson, Viduka etc. Went to every ICT home game aswell though, and had a season ticket from when i was about 10.

Always said I wouldn't support Celtic if Caley get in the SPL. Low and behold we did, and admittedly I did have a soft spot still, though it was short lived...

then its not easy to just stop supporting them.

You obviously weren't at our first SPL game against them at Pittodrie then?

Brought up so much hatred for those dirty, f***an b*****ds I never knew existed when Neil Lennon dived to get Juanjo sent off.

Never gone back since. Never will, now I've seen the light and realised it is the Old Filth that highlight everything that is wrong with Scottish football. The bigotry, the 2 team country, the bigotry, the "we're much better than you" attitude, the bigotry, the secretarianism bile and most of all.. the bigotry.

See supporting a football team is more than just saying you support them. It's a passion. A passion you can't deny. And a passion that cannot be held for 2 teams, no matter how much you may want to. It's all about realising it, and I'm hoping you will do in due course.

You're only 15, we'll give ya a bit of time.

FTOF.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Give the guy a break . I for one admire his honesty , I bet theres loads of our support who secretly support one of the ugly sisters .

[DornochCaley]

I admit. Until the Falkirk game i was really only an Inverness Supporter. But after going threw the Emotions of Relegation, it really brought me closer to the club. BUT, i think i will always be a Celtic fan first and foremost.

[RiG]

No, i have always been a Celtic fan. I always be a Celtic fan. I dont see what the problem is tbh. I started supporting Inverness when they were in the 2nd division. They and Celtic where Worlds appart and was little chance they would play each other on a regular basis. BUT as you all know. ICT got promoted and they did play each other regulary. But at that time i was attached to both teams too much to just stop supporting one of them.

I don't have a problem with who you support, it's totally up to you, but I am interested in understanding your reasons for supporting two football teams in the same league / country that's all. Sadly, as DalneighCaley says, a lot of our support feel the need to "support" one of Rangers or Celtic and have ICT as their wee team.

Personally I think, despite what you say, if you admit to being a Celtic fan first and foremost then your support for ICT can, quite rightly, be called into question despite any protests you might have over that. But it's your choice and I don't have a problem with whatever you choose to do.

Edited August 11, 2009 by RiG

[DornochCaley]

No, i have always been a Celtic fan. I always be a Celtic fan. I dont see what the problem is tbh. I started supporting Inverness when they were in the 2nd division. They and Celtic where Worlds appart and was little chance they would play each other on a regular basis. BUT as you all know. ICT got promoted and they did play each other regulary. But at that time i was attached to both teams too much to just stop supporting one of them.

I don't have a problem with who you support, it's totally up to you, but I am interested in understanding your reasons for supporting two football teams in the same league / country that's all. Sadly, as DalneighCaley says, a lot of our support feel the need to "support" one of Rangers or Celtic and have ICT as their wee team.

Personally I think, despite what you say, if you admit to being a Celtic fan first and foremost then your support for ICT can, quite rightly, be called into question despite any protests you might have over that. But it's your choice and I don't have a problem with whatever you choose to do.

Well, as i said, i have every reason to support Celtic. My whole family are Celtic fans from Glasgow, im a Catholic. I think i have more reason to support Celtic than most up here do. Most support an OF team just so they can Celebrate winning something.

[Guest birdog]

DC I totally disagree with you on your views on songs but I have to stick up for you as far as supporting the two teams goes, I couldn't do it myself but you do give support to ICT by buying season tickets and following us away (probably a lot more than some on this forum) many people who follow other sports will support more than one player or team so I don't see the problem doing it with football! Most pick a foreign team as their other team in footy though which does not normally cause a conflict of interests but if ICT ever make it in to Europe and draw an English team I am sure there are a few here who would find themselves in the same predicament you were 3 times a season whilst we were SPL.

I would also like to say that I believe you are more of an ICT fan than a Sellick fan due to the time you obviously invest in each team, before our club was formed I would say that 95-100% of the fans of each team supported another "big" team (I never but that was due to me starting to follow Caledonian after becoming totally disheartened by what I heard on the terraces of my "big" team) but as time and ICT progressed most will have let their balance of allegiance fall in favour of ICT (if they managed to overcome the merger and follow the new club) I predict, given time, you will follow suit.

One last thing, there was an incident involving some ICT/Rangers fans a while back singing inappropriate songs towards the Celtic crowd in the South Stand, I made a complaint to the club and supported their requests throughout I would not hesitate in doing the same if I heard any of our own supporters doing the same to a Rangers crowd, please keep the songs of your other team away from ICT.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

When have ICT fans sang Celtic songs birdog ?

[DingwallAway]

One last thing, there was an incident involving some ICT/Rangers fans a while back singing inappropriate songs towards the Celtic crowd in the South Stand, I made a complaint to the club and supported their requests throughout I would not hesitate in doing the same if I heard any of our own supporters doing the same to a Rangers crowd, please keep the songs of your other team away from ICT.

I can assure you, the lads up in court from that are not Rangers fans.

[DornochCaley]

DC I totally disagree with you on your views on songs but I have to stick up for you as far as supporting the two teams goes, I couldn't do it myself but you do give support to ICT by buying season tickets and following us away (probably a lot more than some on this forum) many people who follow other sports will support more than one player or team so I don't see the problem doing it with football! Most pick a foreign team as their other team in footy though which does not normally cause a conflict of interests but if ICT ever make it in to Europe and draw an English team I am sure there are a few here who would find themselves in the same predicament you were 3 times a season whilst we were SPL.

I would also like to say that I believe you are more of an ICT fan than a Sellick fan due to the time you obviously invest in each team, before our club was formed I would say that 95-100% of the fans of each team supported another "big" team (I never but that was due to me starting to follow Caledonian after becoming totally disheartened by what I heard on the terraces of my "big" team) but as time and ICT progressed most will have let their balance of allegiance fall in favour of ICT (if they managed to overcome the merger and follow the new club) I predict, given time, you will follow suit.

One last thing, there was an incident involving some ICT/Rangers fans a while back singing inappropriate songs towards the Celtic crowd in the South Stand, I made a complaint to the club and supported their requests throughout I would not hesitate in doing the same if I heard any of our own supporters doing the same to a Rangers crowd, please keep the songs of your other team away from ICT.

Cheers for seeing my point.

In terms of the songs. I dont want to comment TOTALLY on my views on them or we will be here all day but i will say that i have no problem them being sung out side. But Rebel or Loyalist songs have NO room in football. They should stay away. Kept for another day when the football isnt on.

When im at ICT i try and keep Celtic at the back of my mind.(Appart from the halftime score lines)

[Guest birdog]

When have ICT fans sang Celtic songs birdog ?

Not singing Celtic songs but a group of ICT fans were singing the words "fenian b'stard" towards Celtic fans during one match. I wrote to Mike Smith with a complaint and he was extremely helpful. It felt like sh!t sticking in my fellow supporters but I would love to see the back of bigotry in the Scottish game and I would be a hypocrite if I never. The point I was trying to make was that I would prefer not to hear some of the songs that DornochCaley believes are not sectarian coming from our fans. (maybe just a wee effort to drag the thread back on topic)

[DornochCaley]

When have ICT fans sang Celtic songs birdog ?

Not singing Celtic songs but a group of ICT fans were singing the words "fenian b'stard" towards Celtic fans during one match. I wrote to Mike Smith with a complaint and he was extremely helpful. It felt like sh!t sticking in my fellow supporters but I would love to see the back of bigotry in the Scottish game and I would be a hypocrite if I never. The point I was trying to make was that I would prefer not to hear some of the songs that DornochCaley believes are not sectarian coming from our fans. (maybe just a wee effort to drag the thread back on topic)

As i said. The songs i belive are not sectarian still shouldnt be sung at football grounds. If the SFA want to charge fans for what they call "Sectarian singing" i think they should change it to plainly NO REBEL SONGS OR LOYALIST SONGS! That covers all the songs which are sectarian or not. Simple!

[Guest birdog]

When have ICT fans sang Celtic songs birdog ?

Not singing Celtic songs but a group of ICT fans were singing the words "fenian b'stard" towards Celtic fans during one match. I wrote to Mike Smith with a complaint and he was extremely helpful. It felt like sh!t sticking in my fellow supporters but I would love to see the back of bigotry in the Scottish game and I would be a hypocrite if I never. The point I was trying to make was that I would prefer not to hear some of the songs that DornochCaley believes are not sectarian coming from our fans. (maybe just a wee effort to drag the thread back on topic)

As i said. The songs i belive are not sectarian still shouldnt be sung at football grounds. If the SFA want to charge fans for what they call "Sectarian singing" i think they should change it to plainly NO REBEL SONGS OR LOYALIST SONGS! That covers all the songs which are sectarian or not. Simple!

Just to clarify, you have quoted my reply to DalnieghCaley. I was quite happy with your previous reply, as far as I am concerned you are free to sing what you like so long as you are doing it where it is not going to cause trouble, ie in the privacy of yourself and like minded people.

[DornochCaley]

When have ICT fans sang Celtic songs birdog ?

Not singing Celtic songs but a group of ICT fans were singing the words "fenian b'stard" towards Celtic fans during one match. I wrote to Mike Smith with a complaint and he was extremely helpful. It felt like sh!t sticking in my fellow supporters but I would love to see the back of bigotry in the Scottish game and I would be a hypocrite if I never. The point I was trying to make was that I would prefer not to hear some of the songs that DornochCaley believes are not sectarian coming from our fans. (maybe just a wee effort to drag the thread back on topic)

As i said. The songs i belive are not sectarian still shouldnt be sung at football grounds. If the SFA want to charge fans for what they call "Sectarian singing" i think they should change it to plainly NO REBEL SONGS OR LOYALIST SONGS! That covers all the songs which are sectarian or not. Simple!

Just to clarify, you have quoted my reply to DalnieghCaley. I was quite happy with your previous reply, as far as I am concerned you are free to sing what you like so long as you are doing it where it is not going to cause trouble, ie in the privacy of yourself and like minded people.

Ahhh right. My apologies.

[Charles Bannerman]

These songs, may they be rebels or Loyalist tunes. They cannot be counted as sectarian

For goodness sake man, the two sides of the sectarian divide in question ARE the "Rebels" and the "Loyalists"! I would have thought, with a background in the East End of Glasgow you would be perfectly aware of that and not have to be educated by people from the Highlands where, outwith the Portland Club, this kind of nonsense is utterly foreign.

[DornochCaley]

These songs, may they be rebels or Loyalist tunes. They cannot be counted as sectarian

For goodness sake man, the two sides of the sectarian divide in question ARE the "Rebels" and the "Loyalists"! I would have thought, with a background in the East End of Glasgow you would be perfectly aware of that and not have to be educated by people from the Highlands where, outwith the Portland Club, this kind of nonsense is utterly foreign.

Have you read the thread? Im saying that Certain songs cannot be classed as sectarian as they do not Discriminate or intice hatered.

[Alex MacLeod]

an interesting article below

http://theibroxroar.netfirms.com/sectariansongs.htm

[DornochCaley]

Thats a great article. Very good to see people writing things like that and trying to get their point across. Not just sitting in silence.

[absent friend]

These songs, may they be rebels or Loyalist tunes. They cannot be counted as sectarian

For goodness sake man, the two sides of the sectarian divide in question ARE the "Rebels" and the "Loyalists"! I would have thought, with a background in the East End of Glasgow you would be perfectly aware of that and not have to be educated by people from the Highlands where, outwith the Portland Club, this kind of nonsense is utterly foreign.

I only wish that this could, as in my young day, remain nonsense.

We danced, in the Meeting Rooms to the Irish Bands - wonderful entertainers - and had no real knowledge from which side of the divide they were on, as long as their music was good.

How innocent were we - how foreign was their cause to us.

I suppose the TV in the seventies stole a lot of this innocence away and let us, sitting in front of our fires, take sides, Bernadette Devlin/ Paisley and all the rest, now 'respectable' politicians but their cause left us scarred mentally.

How can I ever forget the Saturday night when, with my weeks old son beside me, I watched a little white coffin being carried along the road in Belfast by a father with the tears streaming down his face and IRA spokesmen trying to justify what I was watching.

Now don't get me wrong this type of thing was, no doubt, on both sides but that image will stay with me forever.

I also have a TV scar from Israeli soldiers smashing the elbows of little skeletal boys, between stones, with their rifle butts and leaving them standing there, with their arms swinging held on only by skin.

We have come a long way from the Meeting Rooms days but it has been a horrible journey and don't let any bowler hat/T shirt wording say anything different!

.

[Charles Bannerman]

Let me repeat.....

this kind of nonsense is utterly foreign.

There is NO SIGNIFICANT (I have to add that second word probably almost solely on account of Portland Club and the Free Presbyterian Church - both tiny, absurd, caricature, minority rumps) culture of bigotry in the Highlands. We have Orange Order walks once in a blue moon and it's like an apparition from another planet to most. I have NEVER seen one of these "Hibernian" marches which I beleive also take place down south. There is no significant resentment or divide between Protestants and Catholics up here (apart from the Free Presbyterians who are effectively the Portland Club at Prayer). On the other hand, things like this are unfortunately an integral part of the community in other parts.

I think Absent Friend is confusing an AWARENESS that the likes of what he describes happens elsewhere and the FACT that Protestant - Catholic sectarianism is to all intents and purposes a non issue up here (despite the best efforts of Apprentice Boyzone with their now unfortunately annual stroll to the Portland Club.)

Edited August 11, 2009 by Charles Bannerman

[absent friend]

I think Absent Friend is confusing an AWARENESS that the likes of what he describes happens elsewhere and the FACT that Protestant - Catholic sectarianism is to all intents and purposes a non issue up here (despite the best efforts of Apprentice Boyzone with their now unfortunately annual stroll to the Portland Club.)

I at no time inferred that a Protestant/Catholic divide existed in Inverness - I just lamented the fact that the TV thrust us right into the middle of the conflict and stole our innocence and left a residual awareness of the problem that did not exist prior to that.

I also highlighted the fact that the TV also thrust the Israel/Palestine situation into our living rooms and no, I did not infer that their was an Israel/Palestine divide in Inverness either.

[DornochCaley]

I think Absent Friend is confusing an AWARENESS that the likes of what he describes happens elsewhere and the FACT that Protestant - Catholic sectarianism is to all intents and purposes a non issue up here (despite the best efforts of Apprentice Boyzone with their now unfortunately annual stroll to the Portland Club.)

I at no time inferred that a Protestant/Catholic divide existed in Inverness - I just lamented the fact that the TV thrust us right into the middle of the conflict and stole our innocence and left a residual awareness of the problem that did not exist prior to that.

I also highlighted the fact that the TV also thrust the Israel/Palestine situation into our living rooms and no, I did not infer that their was an Israel/Palestine divide in Inverness either.

I completely agree. But at the same time. TV putting these things into our homes had given many a new sense of morality as they see the injustice the Catholic people in N.Ireland and that palestinians have had to put up with. Palestine was once a Large country, and due to oppression from the Israilies, Palestine doesnt even exist anymore.

[Guest birdog]

I completely agree. But at the same time. TV putting these things into our homes had given many a new sense of morality as they see the injustice the Catholic people in N.Ireland and that palestinians have had to put up with. Palestine was once a Large country, and due to oppression from the Israilies, Palestine doesnt even exist anymore.

Whilst I agree there have been injustices committed in the name of religion perhaps you should look at your own churches historical involvement in slaughter, oppression and injustice and think to yourself why some of the recent "injustices" may have occurred.

Pope Pius XII signed Concordat with Nazis

Spanish Inquisition

You should also, perhaps, take time to read the "God delusion" it has a very good section in it explaining how organised religion has been responsible for more violent deaths than any other occurrence in the history of human beings and serves no other reason than to control the mass population through fear.

You are correct in your cherry picked views but have a look at the wider picture. The UK government are working hard to maintain peace in Ireland, the Pope is working to put right the Catholic Church's involvement in the holocaust but people still think it is okay to sing offensive songs, just because their own personal views do not see them as sectarian. Whilst people hold similar views to yourself there will never be the peace on earth that your prophet Jesus foretold, let he who is without sin..........

[DingwallAway]

[absent friend]

TV putting these things into our homes had given many a new sense of morality as they see the injustice the Catholic people in N.Ireland

Dangerous line you are crossing here as the said TV allowed me to witness the little child being carried, in his coffin, by his father, referrred to above - the Omagh bombing and many, many more carried out by the IRA.

Yes, there was also comparable things carried out against the Catholic people but two wrongs do not make a right!!

I was having a drink with a colleague after work in a bar in Broxburn, West Lothian. During our pint a collecting box was put round 'for the bhoys' and neither I nor my friend, a Catholic, paid any attention to it.

My friend went to the toilet, on his return he called loudly for the collecting box to be handed to him and gave a donation.

We immediately left that bar and went to the bar across the road with my pal in tears. It transpired that he was followed into the loo and told if he wanted his 5 year old wee daughter to keep her looks he better get money in the collecting box!

Where does the above events give me a sense of morality or an acceptance of injustice to any cause! It just provides me with a sense of futility at the ignorance and inhumanity that still abounds within so called 'educated' people.

Now if you want to bring up the historic argument, fine, all I can feel for is the recent history that I witnessed via the TV and my living in the midst of the bigots on both sides of the divide down in Central Scotland.

Be grateful for what we have here in the North of Scotland and encourage/enjoy it. Leave all that Central Scotland crap where it belongs with the twisted minds that goes with it.

.