Rangers go into administration

[Zoid]

Is it not the case that if / when Glasgow Rangers go into liquidation their books will be opened up for scrutiny and any information relating to EBT Schemes (including any Terry Butcher was / was not signed up to) will become public knowledge? Self preservation?

That's assuming the shredder in the big hoose doesn't get their first.

[Alex MacLeod]

Dont think EBT was used in Butchers day. However, I do think folk are being a bit unfair on him. He has stated a worst case scenario. One where TV and advertising pull out if Rangers go. If that were to happen then teams like ICT would have to take drastic measures to make the sums add up. Possibly part time football in the SPL. That is the worst case and the one Butcher mentions. Personally I dont think that case would arise. I think there would still be a product that TV would see as a money maker and I also think the powers that be will get their heads together and put things in place that will improve that product.

[CaleyD]

We survived for long enough (and were competitive) in the lower leagues....in fact I think we turned a profit more often in the lower leagues than we ever have in the SPL....proof positive that a reduced income is not the end of the world.

If every club finds itself in the same position then the whole league needs to adapt to survive and I think we are more capable of doing that than many others.

Ok, so standards may drop for a while until the league re-found its level, but such are the demands of business.

I'd rather be a poor team competing in an honest, fair and competitive league than a poor team begging for scraps from the table of the OF.

[Alex MacLeod]

The latest Blue Knights bid has been rejected. Will this whole saga ever end?

[old caley girl]

Maybe with Craig Whyte agreeing to sell his shares to this English group (alledgedly) the end game is maybe just maybe beginning? Personally wish Terry had kept his thoughts to himself.

[Libero]

Green Knights to the rescue?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18039281

[Ten4]

When Rangers fold or drop to div 3 - they will lose many thousands of ` fans` (imo)

This could of course mean an increase to the gates to these `fans` home town teams! Now there`s a positive.

[jwmski]

When Rangers fold or drop to div 3 - they will lose many thousands of ` fans` (imo)

This could of course mean an increase to the gates to these `fans` home town teams! Now there`s a positive.

Which is what the people at Rangers should have shouted out for a long time ago. Their club might have been saved then if they had owned up and tried to show a touch of humility. I fear the 'administrators' got a hold of this before anyone with a backbone at Ibrox could do anything about it.

[Alex MacLeod]

So the man that fecked up the Blades wants a crack at Rangers.................Let them stay in the SPL I say.........they'll only last a season. Greene will sell all the top players, pocket the money, Rangers will go down and Greene will do a runner

[ICTRoughi]

So the man that fecked up the Blades wants a crack at Rangers.................Let them stay in the SPL I say.........they'll only last a season. Greene will sell all the top players, pocket the money, Rangers will go down and Greene will do a runner

That's the way I see it. David Murray didn't want to put Rangers in admin, so he handed the keys to Whyte to do it who also pocketed millions from unpaid tax by putting them into Admin but doesn't want to be the man to liquidate them and then Green is Whyte's fall guy and makes a fast buck by selling all the assets and then Bye Bye Rangers.

I find it ironic that It's Green and Whyte - I'll get my coat

[ICTRoughi]

[Gabby]

Before we all get too high and mighty on sporting integrity. Let's at least acknowlege that ICT has also previously benefited from "newco" scenario.

Remember the 2 million pound (I think that was the amount) of stadium debt that "just disappeared" as the asset transferred to a Trust. I think we have to be a little careful - pot, kettle, black

[Alex MacLeod]

Sorry Gabby but I see no comparison here. ICT was in debt. The stadium was put in trust to clear that debt. We are now paying off that debt in the form of stadium rental payments. We did not go into administration and we did not fail to pay our debts or taxes. The only time we became a newco was when two Inverness teams merged.

[Gabby]

Hang on. ICT do not own the stadium, the trust does. Therefore the debt and asset were transferred to the Trust. So ICT aren't paying rent to reduce their debt. They are paying rent to a third party so they can manage their debt.

This has nothing to do with administration - Rangers are in administration because they failed to recognise/manage their debt.

Sutherland recongnised that the situation needed to be dealt with and as a result transferred the asset and debt to a "newco" - the Trust. I seem to remember a lot a noise around that time asking where the debt went and that he could allegedly use the land for other purposes.

While the amounts of money are vastly different, the situation is similar.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Gabby

[Sorted]

ICT did not have a trail of debt throughout the country. It did not leave others high and dry. It took prudent fiscal action to ensure its future before it became a fire sale.

An entirely different process to the debacle that is now being played out at Ibrox.

Don't you think if that if the situations were really comparable that Rangers would have taken the same measures used by ICT to correct their situation? It isn't rocket science is it?

[Scarlet Pimple]

The management of Inverness Caledonian Thistle F C have character.

Those at Rangers did not. Slippery, sleazy, money grubbing, shifty, conscienceless opportunitists. But wait, how many of them were there, anyway? One two --or more.?

As for Terry--he didn't say too much that was not close to the truth. Their demise will have a large financial impact on the SPL but teams have survived in the past and will continue to do so.

But maybe one thought that was flowing through his mind was that after his Caley Thistle career is ended, a job at Rangers might have been an option. Can't really blame him for that but a wiser man would have probably remained silent at this stage of developments.Playing devil's advocate with the majority verdict of the fans that morality in management trumps financial accumulation is a dangerous path to follow. It's not Rangers that keeps ICT in operation it is the fan base, at least as I see it.

After Rangers languish in the lower divisions for a few seasons, all fans will realise that they are not needed unlike the presence of the fans at matches in support of their own club which is vital to the ongoing health of the club.

Spending more money than they have in income leads to only one thing , red lights and disaster. When will staying in the SPL be the goal instead of just finding their own level and doing their best in that environment. After you have prudently buit up your financial resources, then maybe that's the rime to expand gradually.

That's the difference.

[Gabby]

ICT did not have a trail of debt throughout the country. It did not leave others high and dry. It took prudent fiscal action to ensure its future before it became a fire sale.

An entirely different process to the debacle that is now being played out at Ibrox.

Don't you think if that if the situations were really comparable that Rangers would have taken the same measures used by ICT to correct their situation? It isn't rocket science is it?

That prudent fiscal action was to transfer the debt and stadium to a "newco". My argument is that the actual mechanism is the same. yes, we did not owe people all over the country, it wasn't a debacle, it wasn't done at the very last minute to save the club - all I am saying is that the mechanism that Rangers are suggesting is basically the same as we used to remove the stadium debt from our books.

[Yngwie]

I disagree. What ICT did with the stadium was just a "sale and leaseback" arrangement which is pretty common in sport and business in general. We sold our only real asset to avoid getting into administration.

Nobody seems to have asked Rangers why they didn't do the same to avoid this mess. They could have got tens of millions by selling Ibrox to a property/investment business and then renting it back, having wiped out their debts with the proceeds. Instead they chose to shaft the creditors and will somehow come out of this with their main asset intact.

[bdu98196]

Sold to Green apparently, press conference later today if the BBC site is correct.

[Sorted]

ICT did not have a trail of debt throughout the country. It did not leave others high and dry. It took prudent fiscal action to ensure its future before it became a fire sale.

An entirely different process to the debacle that is now being played out at Ibrox.

Don't you think if that if the situations were really comparable that Rangers would have taken the same measures used by ICT to correct their situation? It isn't rocket science is it?

That prudent fiscal action was to transfer the debt and stadium to a "newco". My argument is that the actual mechanism is the same. yes, we did not owe people all over the country, it wasn't a debacle, it wasn't done at the very last minute to save the club - all I am saying is that the mechanism that Rangers are suggesting is basically the same as we used to remove the stadium debt from our books.

Gabby

As Yngwie states, realising cash (for any purpose from day to day trading, debt reduction or acquisition for example) is common practice throughout business. Exactly what ICT did. The fact that it was perceived as a 'last minute deal' is more to do with egos and brinkmanship than necessity.

Unless Green and Whyte (how much would they have hated it if West Ham's David Gold had become involved!) can get a CVA agreed, deal with the WTC, the BTC and all other accrued debts, Rangers will be liquidated and debt left everywhere. Even if, in the hugely unlikely event that a deal can be reached, debts will still not be honoured in full.

In no way comparable with anything done by ICT.

[Gabby]

Fair point. I stand correct. Cheers

[SMEE]

I for one, really hope the HMRC play tuff and go after EVERYTHING Rangers tried to cheat their way out of paying. Why should they get away with paying a pitance instead of what they owe. I dont really care if the team goes down the swannie

[Ronaldo]

Interesting article full of home truths by Graham Spiers in the herald today

[Alex MacLeod]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/devil-in-the-detail-of-the-sfas-report.17575469

[old caley girl]

Please can it be over?

Edited May 13, 2012 by old caley girl