Tokely Offski - to Countski

[Jeepsaw]

Absolutely gutted to see Roscoe leave. An irreplaceable player in my opinion and however 'massive' this pay cut was there is no doubt that if butcher wanted to, he could have tried to improve his first offer. We all know that though don't we?

What an awful way to treat an ICT legend.

I know its only the start of June but unless the squad is sorted out fast then this could be the beginning of the end for Terry.

[caleyboy]

On the point of loanee's is it not the case that often they dont cost anything as the club loaning them out does so for development purposes much as we are paying Gavin Morrison to go to Iceland. The one problem with loanee's though is that they generally aren't available for pre-season.

The "lending club" normally expects you to pay at least part of the players wage.

[caleyboy]

Very sad to hear this, not just about losing him when he could still do a job for us, but about the way the whole thing has been handled. Ross could have done a great job in transitioning from a player to a coach, instilling the ethos of the club in new recruits. That would be priceless. But as long as Butcher is the demagogue, there is no room for the kind of inspiration and continuity we so badly need. There is more to it than economics, Ross was flexible, Terry wasn't. He deserves a mammoth send-off and appreciation, although I suppose TB will be busy that night.

The problem now is that this club has no "ethos". If it ever had, Butcher has managed to drive it out with not a little help from the "Builder".

[The Long Man]

Oh, it most certainly did.

[Yngwie]

What an awful way to treat an ICT legend.

[trying desperately to find a positive....] At least that's a phrase we will never hear again at ICT!

[IBM]

Ross Tokely I thank you

A truly remarkable player.

When we got promoted through all the divisions the question by many, including myself, was surely this guy will struggle and at EVERY level he delivered.

I will agree with you on that! All the best Ross.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

In the short-term and when everything is going their way, narcissists are often charming, charismatic, compelling, and persuasive. In fact, a little narcissism may provide surface advantages to succeeding as an entrepreneur. The problems arise when the narcissist feels challenged or threatened. If the flow of admiration from others starts to slow down or stop, if funding fails to materialize, if the marketplace doesn’t behave as the narcissist hopes, narcissists are prone to angry outbursts and attempts to retaliate. Narcissists specialize in making everyone else’s life miserable.

Over time, a narcissist will create an emotionally hazardous work environment for the non-narcissist. He (or she) will surround himself with co-dependants,enablers,followers. If he is high enough up the organization, he will appoint them. If he can't appoint them, he will make life so difficult for those who don't subscribe to his 'world view' (or tacitly accept it), that they will leave. The narcissist will eventually end up surrounded by individuals who play the pathological reciprocal role that his behavior typically induces.

And do we not all know who the feckin co-dependants,enablers,followers are ?

[+DoofersDad]

“He has served Inverness Caley Thistle very well.

But there obviously comes a time when people have to move on."

That to me sounds like Butcher wanted him gone.

It certainly does. Of course there comes a time when people have to move on, but if the manager believes that a player has reached that stage he should release the player and acknowledge the contribution the player has made to the club. This is particulary true in Roscoe's case because nobody has ever made a greater contribution to this club. To force the player to leave by offering a derisory deal and then telling him by text rather than a face to face meeting that there would be no better deal is both cowardly and shameful. He has chosen this route because he did not want the same hue and cry that releasing Munro created. His inability to man manage is demonstrated by yet another major misjudgement both of his assessment of a player and how to deal with the situation.

[Doofer]

He still had a lot to offer IMHO and i am very sad at the way the situation has been handled. Would not be at all surprised if county snap him up if they can offer him a better deal than what butcher did

[+DoofersDad]

Tokely speaks out again.

http://www.thescotti...st-at-boss.html

Mmmm. I wonder what the size of cut Foran had to take with his new contract?

The other interesting thing about Foran's early contract deal is that as the captain with a new contract, he should surely have been central to working with his team mates in persuading them to stay. One assumes that the manager wanted all the players offered new contracts to stay (except Tokely, of course) so this sorry saga doesn't seem to say a lot for the persuasive powers of the captain.

[Renegade]

It'll be even worse next season if the current trend keeps up. Make of this what you will, but I have been very reliably informed that Butcher's hit-list ain't over yet. He got rid of Duncan, he got rid of Munro, there's one more left.

It's pretty obvious what's going on here. I've heard from a few places that Butcher's wanted rid of Tokely for a long time and had he had his way, he would've punted him out the door along with Munro and Duncan. What Butcher's trying to do here is simple - he's going to offer Tokely a deal he knows he'll refuse. Then when the deadline is up, Tokely is gone and Butcher can say that it was own fault he's away. Of course, we all know why. If Tokely is offered a rubbish deal and refuses it and the fans react badly, Butcher can say it was his choice to leave, thus saving Butcher any flack (and damage to his ego), obviously in reaction to what happened with the Grant Munro saga. It's basically the same thing again, just in a different way.

Renegade, I swear all you do is complain, or insinuate some form of conspiracy.. and in general just hate, hate, hate.

*drifts off to sleep*

It's all obviously a conspiracy against ict fans, and ict players butcher didn't sign. He'll have Christie and shearer out the youth development programme soon aswell.

Give it a rest. It's well documented that spl clubs are making budget cuts. How do you know butcher didn't offer Tokely a perfectly acceptable contract? How do you know that butcher has wanted him out for ages? It's the same garbage you've moaned about all season.

It started with "never should've released Munro" now it "he's planning getting rid of Tokely".

Will anyone get behind butcher on here? He's backed into a corner every year regarding his budget and sometimes players have to take pay cuts. Not butchers fault if Tokely can't accept it.

Butchers brought us through one of our toughest seasons with our spl status intact. Give the guy a break

More of your conspiracy theories more like, Renegade. You'll soon have more conspiracy theories than Neil Lennon!!

I see no conspiracy whatsoever here.

He's the manager and has to take tough descisions wether we think they are right, wrong or yet another ludicrous conspiracy theory.

Make no mistake Tokely is an absolute legend and always will be, but we have to let him go sometime soon unfortunatly and probably cant justify the wages he's probably been used too ......... on the conspiracy angle, if he wanted rid of him so much, then why has he offered him new contracts before and another one this time? Seems a bit silly to me that he would be desprately plotting this elaborate sequence of events to get rid of him.

It is totally wrong to say, as one report did, that I didn’t respond to the club’s offer. A year’s contract was fine — I wasn’t looking for anything else. It was just the massive cut I was going to take. I just felt it was a very disrespectful offer after giving the club 16 years’ service. I’ve never earned a lot of money in my career and have never demanded much from the club, but there are limits. I just had to wonder if the manager really wanted me or was he putting the onus on me to turn it down?

Hate to say I told you so.....

Edited June 2, 2012 by Renegade

[gordieict]

Tokely speaks out again.

http://www.thescotti...st-at-boss.html

Mmmm. I wonder what the size of cut Foran had to take with his new contract?

The other interesting thing about Foran's early contract deal is that as the captain with a new contract, he should surely have been central to working with his team mates in persuading them to stay. One assumes that the manager wanted all the players offered new contracts to stay (except Tokely, of course) so this sorry saga doesn't seem to say a lot for the persuasive powers of the captain.

I think that's a bit harsh on Foran, after all he doesn't decide the length of contracts or wages players are offered. Unfortunately the days of players like Tokely are gone and with it the loyalty, players will go for better terms and there is little Foran or any captain can do about it

Edited June 2, 2012 by gordieict

[+Fraz]

In the short-term and when everything is going their way, narcissists are often charming, charismatic, compelling, and persuasive. In fact, a little narcissism may provide surface advantages to succeeding as an entrepreneur. The problems arise when the narcissist feels challenged or threatened. If the flow of admiration from others starts to slow down or stop, if funding fails to materialize, if the marketplace doesn’t behave as the narcissist hopes, narcissists are prone to angry outbursts and attempts to retaliate. Narcissists specialize in making everyone else’s life miserable.

Over time, a narcissist will create an emotionally hazardous work environment for the non-narcissist. He (or she) will surround himself with co-dependants,enablers,followers. If he is high enough up the organization, he will appoint them. If he can't appoint them, he will make life so difficult for those who don't subscribe to his 'world view' (or tacitly accept it), that they will leave. The narcissist will eventually end up surrounded by individuals who play the pathological reciprocal role that his behavior typically induces.

And do we not all know who the feckin co-dependants,enablers,followers are ?

You should really speak to someone regarding starting your own daytime tv show a la Dr Phil or a more up market Jeremy Kyle!

[TheKarl]

Told us what Renegade?.. That because Tokes has a "wonder" about something, the same as other forum folk that it then ABSOLUTLY MUST be true?

Still no truth or concrete fact to anything, so come off your "high horse" and sit with the rest of us, you told us nothing.

[dougal]

So where does everyone think Tokely will go next?

If we were to be totally honest maybe another season in the SPL would have been a step too far, anyone who's played footie to a decent level like myself all be it amateur in my case know when the legs start to go, in Butchers defence maybe he sussed this by watching Ross in training every day

I can't see him going to County somehow, don't think he would fancy it never mind the County fans, my guess would be it won't be an SPL club but I suppose it will all depend on how far he wants to uproot

Thoughts?

Dougal

[givmeaccccc]

I have never been so angry and truely wish that I hadn't renewed my season tickets. Butcher will ruin our club whilst Bennet and the Chairman (who is he?) stand by.

We need a high profile Chairman who can take overall charge of the club. In the past we have had McGillivary, Sutherland and Savage to name a few all very highly thought of and driven men.

Ross should have been offered a place for life with our club.

Gutted angry and fearfull that we will be relegated next season.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

In the short-term and when everything is going their way, narcissists are often charming, charismatic, compelling, and persuasive. In fact, a little narcissism may provide surface advantages to succeeding as an entrepreneur. The problems arise when the narcissist feels challenged or threatened. If the flow of admiration from others starts to slow down or stop, if funding fails to materialize, if the marketplace doesn’t behave as the narcissist hopes, narcissists are prone to angry outbursts and attempts to retaliate. Narcissists specialize in making everyone else’s life miserable.

Over time, a narcissist will create an emotionally hazardous work environment for the non-narcissist. He (or she) will surround himself with co-dependants,enablers,followers. If he is high enough up the organization, he will appoint them. If he can't appoint them, he will make life so difficult for those who don't subscribe to his 'world view' (or tacitly accept it), that they will leave. The narcissist will eventually end up surrounded by individuals who play the pathological reciprocal role that his behavior typically induces.

And do we not all know who the feckin co-dependants,enablers,followers are ?

You should really speak to someone regarding starting your own daytime tv show a la Dr Phil or a more up market Jeremy Kyle!

Well here is a psycholgically linked prediction - A narcissist will gradually begin to feel very insecure and threatened if or when the sway of public opinion goes against them. They will utilise the situation to leave in order to preserve their perception that they must be correct and project the blame on to others - e.g. Being made a scapegoat, being misquoted, being unsupported lack of finances, fans with high expectations. Some of the "lesser" co-dependants involved will even support him. The narcissist will then manouevre the management in to agreeing a "pay off" so that the parting appears to be amicable. The narcissist will pick up the money from a lengthy contract, subsidised without of the formal budget - by person and/or persons unknown, and will move on, relatively intact. And ensuring that there is a back up plan, such as the media or even a position in a new "regime" in Govan.

[tm4tj]

Overuse of the word narcissist is boring everyone on here now Johndo, we all know how to spell it and thanks for the tutorials.

I doubt many are now reading any of your posts because they all say the same thing. You had better get a job soon to keep you occupied or let's hope the season starts soon.

Give it a rest with the tripe.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Again I thank you and appreciate the feedback. I am equally thankful that it would appear that my psychological formulation would now appear to be fully understood by the forum members. I should also thank you for your concern over my employment but I am currently working three days a week within the Central Lancashire Psychological Therapies service. It may also be worth advising yourself and others that we do consider "out of area" referrals.

By the way I always end teaching sessions with a video clip, preferably of a humerous nature - so I will share this little gem with you and will refrain from the tutorials from henceforth.

http://youtu.be/c6xU_CPE310

[Renegade]

Told us what Renegade?.. That because Tokes has a "wonder" about something, the same as other forum folk that it then ABSOLUTLY MUST be true?

Still no truth or concrete fact to anything, so come off your "high horse" and sit with the rest of us, you told us nothing.

I said Butcher wanted Tokely gone and had done for some time. I said Butcher had danced up a rubbish offer knowing Tokely would turn it down and save Butcher's skin, in an obvious repeat of the Munro debacle. Tokely thinks that this could well be the case. Butcher comments alludes that he wanted rid. I was blasted as a "conspiracy theorist". Looks like I turned out to be right....

Edited June 3, 2012 by Renegade

[lukemackay]

well tokely said that when he asked butcher for a better deal he said his hands were tied.

tokely at no point blames the manager. always the club

so rene your still off your rocker. you should maybe get some treatment for your paranoia

[Renegade]

Tokely says "he wonders if the manager really wanted to keep him". Butcher's comments seem to suggest he wanted rid of him.

On your last comment, all I can say is . You're going to get a surprise or two when you see the state of how things really are.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Renegade

[lukemackay]

a month to pre season. plenty time to sort things out.

[Renegade]

Indeed, but I can't say I have faith in Butcher to find the players necessary to replace those he punted or ones good enough to make a team even to the standard of last seasons.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Renegade

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

http://www.thescotti...st-at-boss.html