Admin by Oct 16th - It's here now!

[+Fraz]

45 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

Thanks for this Fraz and well done, however, I've reached page 26 and now going for a lie down.

I never said I read (or understood) it!

[The Mantis]

21 hours ago, CaleyCanary said:

My copy hasn’t arrived in Norfolk yet and I ain’t in Norfolk, Virginia!

Tuesday now and I’m less than halfway to Norfolk but Norfolk & Chance of seeing it on my doormat…

[STFU]

Doesn't make for hopeful reading.

[CaleyCanary]

2 hours ago, STFU said:

Doesn't make for hopeful reading.

Is it Norfolk and Good?

[LisleRightPeg]

I’m not going to pretend I fully understand that document but it doesn’t read well. I fully expect us to lose a few players in the January transfer window to acquire money 

[hislopsoffsideagain]

3 hours ago, LisleRightPeg said:

I’m not going to pretend I fully understand that document but it doesn’t read well. I fully expect us to lose a few players in the January transfer window to acquire money 

Clubs around our level can't afford anything much in terms of transfer fees - a few grand at most. We're more likely to lose players for nothing if clubs are willing to take on their wages, but if that weakens the squad and makes us more likely to be relegated - making us less valuable to a buyer - then the administrators may well decide we're better off holding on to those players.

[Yngwie]

37 minutes ago, hislopsoffsideagain said:

Clubs around our level can't afford anything much in terms of transfer fees - a few grand at most. We're more likely to lose players for nothing if clubs are willing to take on their wages, but if that weakens the squad and makes us more likely to be relegated - making us less valuable to a buyer - then the administrators may well decide we're better off holding on to those players.

I think the most relevant factor for keeping the squad together is how much Savage is willing to keep putting in to keep the club running during administration.

[Yngwie]

I see the administrators have racked up fees of £252,000 in their first 7 weeks.

If only Gardiner and Morrison had tried boosting the club’s non-footballing revenues by setting up a firm of administrators rather than a battery farm! 

[Scotty]

51 minutes ago, hislopsoffsideagain said:

Clubs around our level can't afford anything much in terms of transfer fees - a few grand at most. We're more likely to lose players for nothing if clubs are willing to take on their wages, but if that weakens the squad and makes us more likely to be relegated - making us less valuable to a buyer - then the administrators may well decide we're better off holding on to those players.

Pretty much spot on & I hope you are right. If we are in League 1 we are somewhat attractive to buyers but if we lose a raft of players in the window and suffer because of it with a relegation to league 2, i think we would be doomed in our current incarnation. 

For me the key things in the doc seem to be that Alan Savage is keeping us afloat but at some point, that well will run dry. I was also surprised at the fees for the administrator which seem high, but i would assume that initially there were a lot of hours having to be put in but as time goes on, I hope less hours are required to keep things ticking over. 

There seems to be no indication which way former officials will lean in terms of what they want to do with what they are owed, and the last snippets i noted were the comments about looking at the actions of officials over the last 3 years to see if any of those actions are reportable and the circumstances of the land transfer(s).  

Also interesting to note there were 21 expressions of interest, and i wonder how many of these are serious or viable. 

[+snorbens_caleyman]

18 hours ago, Fraz said:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC149117/filing-history

 

Interesting list of creditors.  Including one "Scot Gardiner", owed £70K.

I assume that this is just a list of claims received, not of verified claims?

[STFU]

2 hours ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

Interesting list of creditors.  Including one "Scot Gardiner", owed £70K.

I assume that this is just a list of claims received, not of verified claims?

It says that in the report and also that mire could be added.

Saw a comment on Facebook from Cafe1 saying they are owed £5000 and it's not on the list.

[bdu98196]

Quite a lot owed to hotel & catering (circa £40k) - wonder how much were necessary & justified business costs and not just directors running up expenses taking advantage of the position.

 

[+snorbens_caleyman]

1 hour ago, STFU said:

It says that in the report and also that mire could be added.

I thought we were already in the mire! 

[STFU]

1 hour ago, bdu98196 said:

Quite a lot owed to hotel & catering (circa £40k) - wonder how much were necessary & justified business costs and not just directors running up expenses taking advantage of the position.

 

We had players staying in hotels. One I know of was living in the new AC Marriott the whole time he was here and another was staying in the Kingsmills.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

We can see quite clearly why Alan Savage had no choice but to opt for administration as the mess created by those running the club became much clearer to him. 

 

[Scotty]

1 hour ago, STFU said:

We had players staying in hotels. One I know of was living in the new AC Marriott the whole time he was here and another was staying in the Kingsmills.

Whatever happened to the good old B&Bs that the likes of Bobby Mann and others used to stay in when here! If we survive, this is the kind of s*** that can't creep back in. It doesn't happen in other occupations ... I could work almost anywhere in the world for my company and if they sent me somewhere, or i was seconded to a location for a period of time, then they would pay me to move, cover reasonable relocation costs, and possibly cover a little extra until I was established, but no way they are paying my living expenses forever. 

From what I hear it was not just players staying in hotels, but others who had similar arrangements or properties rented for them. ludicrous. 

[STFU]

It's clear that spending was massively out of control. We knew that but can now see it in black and white.

What is also concerning is that we still seem to be losing about £10000 per week even after all the cuts.

Savage said he was taking care of local businesses who were due money so wondering if a chunk of the creditor list has already been taken care of?

[CaleyCiuin]

2 hours ago, STFU said:

It's clear that spending was massively out of control. We knew that but can now see it in black and white.

What is also concerning is that we still seem to be losing about £10000 per week even after all the cuts.

Savage said he was taking care of local businesses who were due money so wondering if a chunk of the creditor list has already been taken care of?

I agree, still losing money after the cuts is very worrying. Did they not cut hard enough? Is remaining full time in a predominantly part time league justified? Having the stadium staff in every day is still costing the same as it ever did. Put on top of that the costs of BDO, then finances remain critical !!!!! Thank goodness for AS!!!!

[+old caley girl]

Just now, CaleyCiuin said:

I agree, still losing money after the cuts is very worrying. Did they not cut hard enough? Is remaining full time in a predominantly part time league justified? Having the stadium staff in every day is still costing the same as it ever did. Put on top of that the costs of BDO, then finances remain critical !!!!! Thank goodness for AS!!!!

I have to say I was surprised at the lack of staff redundancies off field. We do seem overstaffed compared to other L1 clubs? 

However maybe this picture will improve with Bar94 making money and hospitality restarting? Lots of other commercial opportunities could be utilised again as well with the right folk managing the commercial side. 

I do think we will need secondary non football related income too but not pie in sky stuff like battery farms 

[Scotty]

back of a cigarette packet stuff I know, but if we are still losing £10K per week then that is £520K per year. That is less than one third of what we were told was the projected yearly loss of £1.6m just a few months ago (before admin). If you factor in that income is slowly building back up with sponsorships coming back in, more people spending money, the bar taking in more money thanks to the Supporters Trust efforts, the administrators chasing money that the club is actually owed, and hopefully some club shop stock of the cracking black kit to come back in in all sizes then the £10K p/wk deficit might reduce considerably.  Let's for sake of argument say it drops to £7K then that is around £360K per year which is our traditional shortfall even in the days when we were being run responsibly. A decent cup run or some income from a legitimate revenue generating idea might be all that stands between us and a break-even point if that happens. 

My glass remains half-full ... otherwise I will need to top it up later

 

[Jack Waddington]

Wonder how long Gardiner will keep this "they owe me money!" charade going...

[big cherly]

On 12/17/2024 at 2:09 PM, Fraz said:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC149117/filing-history

 

Facts laid bare! As others have said it’s not great reading, however at least there is clarity on the debt, assets, uncertainty, perilous running (if you can call it that) of the club operations and expressions of possible interested parties. 
Just what I gelled that stood out:

Up front:

# Its an excellent piece of work by BDO.

# Thank goodness for AS. He’s bailed us out to date and kept us alive. Don’t believe anyone else could or would have done what he has for the club. If we don’t have a buyer for the remainder of the season (unlikely imho), another 350k may be needed. Ie circa 550K and counting if AS remains around, not including the Admin costs and any SG outcome.

# The debt as it currently stands and the uncertainty of the leased land around the stadium are the main stumbling blocks I see for any buyer.

# R Morrison floating charge or 1.65M looks insurmountable unless is willing to agree to a much reduced settlement. Tough one to bridge! 
# Unsecured Creditors - Kicking 2M. Process started to see whether an agreed figure can met. Expect some will not!! 
# The HMRC will for sure get their piece of whatever the administrators finally reach agreement with the creditors. 
# As DD indicated, a CVA may be the only route available for the administrator to pursue if a settlement with the creditors cannot be reached. This would extend the whole administration operation.

# The running of the club has been an eyeopener in that the report shows systemic poor fiscal control and scrutiny of the accounts and the club running operations for some period now. Whether the rot had started before SG was brought in there can be no doubt now he was a main contributor to the slide the club is in! The model of Directors bailing out clubs is nothing new, however the floating charge loans was a gamble on the never-never (getting back into the Premiership any time soon). 
#  If BDO are seeking legal advice on the stadium and leased land assets it only shows that clarity on a clear position is required, and what that brings in way of any tangible asset will only create uncertainty for any potential buyer, ie  land may be the prime interest for some.

# Again back of fag pack. The operating costs need another 500 supporters (2000) give or take, to break even. Using £20 / head ave entry charge to knock the 10K out. (Happy for anyone to give more sensible figures). This is achieved in the championship but not in LD1, so some other income strands needs to fill this gap until promotion achieved. Bar will help.

# BDO fee. Unless we get a buyer coming in to pick up for this season (personally can’t see it), then BDO could be engaged through to July or even later. Their doing a proper job, but there’s a reason (quality costs). Their fee could be 750K or more if it goes this way! 

In closing, better to know what we have to cross, rather than guessing with people that have proving incapable or running the club properly. Risky times still ahead but remain optimistic. 

bc

 

Edited December 18, 2024 by big cherly

[CaleyCiuin]

1 hour ago, big cherly said:

Facts laid bare! As others have said it’s not great reading, however at least there is clarity on the debt, assets, uncertainty, perilous running (if you can call it that) of the club operations and expressions of possible interested parties. 
Just what I gelled that stood out:

Up front:

# Its an excellent piece of work by BDO.

# Thank goodness for AS. He’s bailed us out to date and kept us alive. Don’t believe anyone else could or would have done what he has for the club. If we don’t have a buyer for the remainder of the season (unlikely imho), another 350k may be needed. Ie circa 550K and counting if AS remains around, not including the Admin costs and any SG outcome.

# The debt as it currently stands and the uncertainty of the leased land around the stadium are the main stumbling blocks I see for any buyer.

# R Morrison floating charge or 1.65M looks insurmountable unless is willing to agree to a much reduced settlement. Tough one to bridge! 
# Unsecured Creditors - Kicking 2M. Process started to see whether an agreed figure can met. Expect some will not!! 
# The HMRC will for sure get their piece of whatever the administrators finally reach agreement with the creditors. 
# As DD indicated, a CVA may be the only route available for the administrator to pursue if a settlement with the creditors cannot be reached. This would extend the whole administration operation.

# The running of the club has been an eyeopener in that the report shows systemic poor fiscal control and scrutiny of the accounts and the club running operations for some period now. Whether the rot had started before SG was brought in there can be no doubt now he was a main contributor to the slide the club is in! The model of Directors bailing out clubs is nothing new, however the floating charge loans was a gamble on the never-never (getting back onto the Premiership any time soon). 
#  If BDO are seeking legal advice on the stadium and leased land assets it only shows that clarity on a clear position is required, and what that brings in way of any tangible asset will only create uncertainty for any potential buyer, ie  land may be the prime interest for some.

# Again back of fag pack. The operating costs need another 500 supporters (2000) give or take, to break even. Using £20 / head ave entry charge to knock the 10K out. (Happy for anyone to give more sensible figures). This is achieved in the championship but not in LD1, so some other income strands needs to fill this gap until promotion achieved. Bar will help.

# BDO fee. Unless we get a buyer coming in to pick up for this season (personally can’t see it), then BDO could be engaged through to July or even later. Their doing a proper job, but there’s a reason (quality costs). Their fee could be 750K or more if it goes this way! 

In closing, better to know what we have to cross, rather than guessing with people that have proving incapable or running the club properly. Risky times still ahead but remain optimistic. 

bc

 

Now that the financial situation has been laid out for all to see, I still dont get it. Is there an expectation that someone will absorb the debt………Still a lot of money,.then take on a loss making club even after cuts have been made! Who would want to do that ??? We live in hope I suppose!

 

 

[buckett]

I wonder if it's too early for another crowd-fund thing.

Although the last one raised a fair bit of cash, it didn't come anywhere near meeting the stated target.

But contributing at that time was just a shot in the dark - nobody really knew where the money they contributed was actually going, nor what it would achieve. Most of us I think just heeded a cry for help from our club and responded with a random, affordable donation.

There was also the fear that our contributions would end up in SG's pocket, which made many of us reluctant to donate.

Now, however, the picture is a little clearer and we can have a more reliable indication of how much is required and why.

I personally would be prepared to donate again, probably more than I donated last time, although I'd need a few weeks to recover from the expenses of this season of goodwill!

[Robert]

On 12/17/2024 at 7:09 PM, LisleRightPeg said:

I’m not going to pretend I fully understand that document but it doesn’t read well. I fully expect us to lose a few players in the January transfer window to acquire money 

The P&J is reporting Alan Savage as saying we are looking to sign a striker in January, there will be a Press Conference by the Administrator on Monday and he (Savage) may lead a consortium to take the club forward. 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Robert