Loyalist March

[Alex MacLeod]

The one thing that annoys me about the marches debate is how it's an Irish thing. Its far from it and very much a Scottish thing.

The loyalist marches commemorate the 'Battle of the Boyne'. It all began, throughout Europe, in the sixteenth century as a reformation of the catholic church. Martin Luther led a protest against the church in Rome. Hence the name Protestant. Without going into detail on the politics of Lutheraism and the various other reformist movements throughout europe at the time the ultimate culmination of which was the breakaway from the roman church by Henry VIII. Old Henry, a devout catholic, found it more to his benifit to form his own church, the C of E. Basically he sent out his henchmen to destroy any links to Rome.

At the same time a similar reformation was taking place in Scotland that culminated in the formation of the covenanters movement. Roman catholicism held stronger in Scotland though under the reign of the Stewart dynasty.

Anyway, civil war was rife on both sides of the border. The covenanters being supported by England and the non-reformist movements in England being supported by the Jacobites.

Basically this became war between Scottish catholics and English protestants. The Scots, or Jacobites, held strong for a time but the might of England was too much and we were chased to Ireland where a final battle took place of the banks of the river Boyne in 1690. The English won. There were Irish mercenaries on both sides, as there were French, Dutch, Swiss, Germans etc. A few years later the Scots sold themselves to England.

I know this is a very brief reflection of history with a great deal missing but the point I'm making is that a celebration of the 'Battle of the Boyne' is in actual fact a celebration of a battle that took place between England and Scotland on Irish soil. Not a celebration of Anglo-Irish problems as so many people seem to think.

[Johnboy]

The one thing that annoys me about the marches debate is how it's an Irish thing. Its far from it and very much a Scottish thing.

The loyalist marches commemorate the 'Battle of the Boyne'. It all began, throughout Europe, in the sixteenth century as a reformation of the catholic church. Martin Luther led a protest against the church in Rome. Hence the name Protestant. Without going into detail on the politics of Lutheraism and the various other reformist movements throughout europe at the time the ultimate culmination of which was the breakaway from the roman church by Henry VIII. Old Henry, a devout catholic, found it more to his benifit to form his own church, the C of E. Basically he sent out his henchmen to destroy any links to Rome.

At the same time a similar reformation was taking place in Scotland that culminated in the formation of the covenanters movement. Roman catholicism held stronger in Scotland though under the reign of the Stewart dynasty.

Anyway, civil war was rife on both sides of the border. The covenanters being supported by England and the non-reformist movements in England being supported by the Jacobites.

Basically this became war between Scottish catholics and English protestants. The Scots, or Jacobites, held strong for a time but the might of England was too much and we were chased to Ireland where a final battle took place of the banks of the river Boyne in 1690. The English won. There were Irish mercenaries on both sides, as there were French, Dutch, Swiss, Germans etc. A few years later the Scots sold themselves to England.

I know this is a very brief reflection of history with a great deal missing but the point I'm making is that a celebration of the 'Battle of the Boyne' is in actual fact a celebration of a battle that took place between England and Scotland on Irish soil. Not a celebration of Anglo-Irish problems as so many people seem to think.

So.....

Should the Battle of the Boyne be commemorated in Inverness?

[Alex MacLeod]

Weeeeellllllllllllll, Inverness Castle was a Jacobite stronghold all through the civil wars. It eventually fell to the royalists and was then held by the traitors of Ross until 1745.

But to answer your question. If the marches were seen only as a commemoration of the 'Battle of the Boyne' then I dont have a problem. Perhaps we should all remember, as we do any other battle or war. If its a commemoration of protestant dominance over catholicism or if its meant to demonstrate a hatred for catholicism then no.

In these modern, more tolerant, times perhaps the right gesture would be for Loyalist and Hibernian bands to march side by side.

[Johnboy]

a hatred for catholicism then no.

In these modern, more tolerant, times perhaps the right gesture would be for Loyalist and Hibernian bands to march side by side.

Or maybe the Old Firm could merge and set up something called Glagow United FC!

[Alex MacLeod]

Pigs will fly and wolves will roam free in Scotland.

[PullMyFinger]

I suppose in a land where all the people have strong religious ties, like the OF supporters, someone had to bring up the camp to which these boys belong and use that as a brand image.

You can't be serious, since when was the Lodge a religion?

[absent friend]

I was very much NOT being serious!!

[DornochCaley]

I dont think it should be alowed in Inverness. I am a Catholic, and also an IRA sympathiser (I dont condone killing of innocents, i support the cause they fight for). If these people are alowed to Celebrate the battle of the boyne and use it as a tool of hatered against Catholics such as myself then why arnt we alowed to Celebrate the Easter Rising and the men that fought and died in that? My uncle was taken way in a Police van a few years back on easter sunday for Walking around with a "Remember the Rising, our day will come" T-Shirt.

Thats Criminal. You cant let one side march and not let the other. Its not as if we even won the battle in the easter of 1916! So we could hardly use it as tool of violence. A march would be used as a Memorial service. We wouldnt want Trouble. (I use the term we meaning, Irish, Catholics, Sympathisers, supporters of the cause)

Edited August 10, 2009 by DornochCaley

[DornochCaley]

I dont think it should be alowed in Inverness. I am a Catholic, and also an IRA sympathiser (I dont condone killing of innocents, i support the cause they fight for). If these people are alowed to Celebrate the battle of the boyne and use it as a tool of hatered against Catholics such as myself then why arnt we alowed to Celebrate the Easter Rising and the men that fought and died in that? My uncle was taken way in a Police van a few years back on easter sunday for Walking around with a "Remember the Rising, our day will come" T-Shirt.

Thats Criminal. You cant let one side march and not let the other. Its not as if we even won the battle in the easter of 1916! So we could hardly use it as tool of violence. A march would be used as a Memorial service. We wouldnt want Trouble. (I use the term we meaning, Irish, Catholics, Sympathisers, supporters of the cause)

Btw, Birdog. If you hate Bigotry i take it you have a whale of a time living Beside **name removed**, who is actually a good mate of mine.

This post is a prime example of why organised religion is the scourge of this earth.

BTW the person you refer to and I get on fine, are you calling him a bigot?

You should really read the thread before posting and you will see what my views actually are.

No, i personally am not calling him a bigot. But some people will have the view he is.

[DornochCaley]

No bother. I just removed that whole thing. Hes a good mate tbh.

[Guest birdog]

Removed mine too, he's a nice guy, I don't agree with his politics or yours but that doesn't mean that you or he are people I wouldn't get along with. Political views are all very varied.

Edited August 10, 2009 by birdog

[DornochCaley]

Exactly. Though there are people that are bad due to there stances. Hitler for example? Not a good one but still.