The Highland Derby

[Proctor]

I am in the middle of writing a feature on the Highland derby as part of a university project. I was hoping to get the opinions of some of you on here/ask a few questions from some of the older fans (and young ones too)

Prior to the merger what was the relationship like between County and the pre merger teams. Was it a derby as such?

Is there a game that sticks out in all your minds or a particular memory of a game?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

In the days of the Howden End, Elgin were the "enemy" and the clashes between Caley and Elgin were real derby affairs. Caley and Clach often teamed up together if Elgin were in town or it was an away midweeker or cup tie in Elgin. Caley and Thistle was more of a polite banter affair. Ross County were "also rans" as we could meet them up the Strath every weekend !! Can only remember one football special to Dungwall in the seventies but countless to Hellgin. Used to have more of a rivalry with Huntly as well. My particular memory of Dungwall was a full house Scottish Qualifying Cup game when we took over the Jail End.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Skol Cup Final Xmas 1982 - Thistle 3 County 1 aet, Kingsmills Park. Tournament was played during the winter closedown in the 82/83 season between four teams. Thistle beat Elgin 7-4 over two legs and County beat Brora 6-2 on aggregate. Wonder where that trophy resides now;-)

Edited April 23, 2012 by Tichy_Blacks_Back

[old caley girl]

I dont remember there being a terrific rivalry between Caley and County in the old days and doubt that jags had a great one either.However it must have become more intense when Bobby Wilson took over as manager and won the HL twice I think! Elgin were number 1 enemy with Huntly Keith and peterhead winning things but at different times (70s and 80s). My number one memory of Dingwall is probably not much good to your project but County had a small wooden stand and one midweek match my friend and I were sitting beside the tunnel. Roddie Davidson took a head knock and had to come off due to blood pouring down his face. My friend who was blood phobic took one look at him and fainted needing medical attention herself.

I remember being really surprised when they won election to the sfl everyone thought it would be ourselves and Gala Fairydean but as now it was seen as great news that 2 highland teams had done well.

Edited April 23, 2012 by old caley girl

[+bughtmaster]

Back in the forties/fifties it was Clach that were the arch enemies,Thistle, County and Nairn were usually well worth going to as there was always a bit of needle there but to be honest none of these games really stand out in my memory.

Qualifying cup games were what we always looked forward to especially the biggies against the first/second division teams who always

looked nervous against us. In those days we always seemed to get into the 'big rounds'

Sorry Proctor I cant help either but good luck with your project..

[SMEE]

Ross County were nothing at all in the grand scheme of things as far as the Highland League went. They would NEVER have got into the league ahead of Elgin, had Elgin not been stripped of the Highland League Championship for cheating around the time of Scottish League Reconstruction was going thro.

As far as Rivalry went, County meant Nothing to Caley, as one was the most Honoured team in HL history, and the other team was a diddy team from a diddy town

[dougiedanger]

Ross County were nothing at all in the grand scheme of things as far as the Highland League went. They would NEVER have got into the league ahead of Elgin, had Elgin not been stripped of the Highland League Championship for cheating around the time of Scottish League Reconstruction was going thro.

As far as Rivalry went, County meant Nothing to Caley, as one was the most Honoured team in HL history, and the other team was a diddy team from a diddy town

In a nutshell. Nobody gave a flying one for the Baile Chaul, or whatever they called themselves.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Was involved in a good few scraps with County through in Dingwall back in the day and one of my earliest memories of the Howden End is of being struck on the back of the head by a can of lager thrown from the County fans that had half the end . Never liked them from then on in and always liked a trip through to Dingwall .

[Charles Bannerman]

I would largely reinforce what others such as IHE and OCG have said. The ICT - County scenario is a relative Johnny Come Lately on the local rivalry stakes.

Certainly in the North, and probably elsewhere as well, rivalries have tended to be with whomever your closest rivals at the time are, so this tends to be cyclical.

In Inverness there was a long period in the early - mid 20th century where Caley and Clach were the two big cheeses and that was quite a longstanding one. In the 60s and into the 70s Elgin had a purple patch so they, as has been said, became principal rivals. That may also have coincided with a period of especially bad behaviour at football matches in general and perhaps locally in particular which may have amplified the situation. Then during the early/mid 80s, Caley and Keith dominated the HL scene.

I was a student in Edinburgh when Thistle had their couple of glory years in the early 70s so have no great recollection of that or any rivalry it might have generated. However when Thistle had their next purple patch in the latter 1980s, in doing so they were challenging Caley's status as top dogs so this gave rise to quite an intense rivalry especially in 87 and 88. Between them these two Inverness clubs also shared all the HL honours and actually won (or effectively so) the last major trophies of their history at each other's grounds (Caley 87-88 League, Jags 88-89 Q Cup).

Interestingly after that both Inverness teams went into decline as the merger approached, but appeared to retain a rivalry. However by the early 90s Ross County were up for their back to back HL titles in 91 and 92 - both the result of Caley bottling it big time. (A look at the "new" (HL) Chapter and the original Chapter 1 of Against all Odds will give more information up until 1997.)

These close run HL title races then gave a huge impetus to the Caley - County rivalry (Caley fans seemed to do "rivalry" quite well!!) which therefore had every reason to spill into the SFL years post 1994.

And there we have it! That rivalry of the only two national league clubs in the inner Moray Firth has continued ever since - albeit in fits and starts dependent on just how competitive they are with each other at any particular time.

So we look forward to next season's unprededented scenario!!!!

Edited April 24, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[lukemackay]

County are the team I grew up dispizing as a caley jags fan. So I'm guessing it's I generation thing. I talk to older fans and they don't seem to hold the same hatred of them as myself or my mates.

Never liked them and never will.

[Proctor]

Thanks guys, I have posted a version of this on the Jailend as well

Edited April 24, 2012 by Proctor

[SMEE]

Proctor.....id imagine County fans viewed Caley differently than Caley Viewed County. Given that we were the biggest town in the Region and also Caley were the scalp to claim out of any team in the league. Be intresting to see what they say

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

There may be a limited repsonse because most of them cant read and most of them will be scared off by the word "university".

[dougal]

From my experience of older County fans they did indeed have rivalry with all three Inverness sides but they always classed Caledonian Fc as their main rivals and the team they wanted to beat most

My mate from work who is a dungweller even stated while he hated Caledonian Fc he fully respected them whereas he doesnt hate ICT he merely pities us

Caledonian, Clach and Elgin were the big teams pre merger the likes of County and Thistle were total *****

Dougal

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

My mate from work who is a dungweller even stated while he hated Caledonian Fc he fully respected them whereas he doesnt hate ICT he merely pities us :lol:

Dougal and Charlie B - feckin hilarious peas in a pod.

IHE - Discuss :lol:

[Charles Bannerman]

Caledonian, Clach and Elgin were the big teams pre merger the likes of County and Thistle were total *****

Interesting though that of the five teams Doogie mentions there, County and Elgin were the most successful and indeed only Clach - who were heading towards their first bankruptcy - were less successful than Caley in the immediate "pre merger" years.

But I'm not going to rise to the bait with the statistics.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[Proctor]

Thanks everyone. When I posted this on the Jailend I re-phrased it slightly to ask if there was a game pre/post merger that sticks out in peoples minds. Since the merger is there a game in particular that stands out?

[tm4tj]

Oh I'm sure they might just mention the 1-5 hammering or the even worse in my opinion the 1-3 a couple of seasons ago, August 2009 when they ripped us a new one. Good luck with your project and maybe you could blog some of it on here Proctor, or possibly even an article, would be a good precursor for the coming season.

Let me know.

[Proctor]

Its going to take the form of a magazine feature as its a journalism course I am doing.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

A bit like a Life Support Machine editorial then ?

[SMEE]

Caledonian, Clach and Elgin were the big teams pre merger the likes of County and Thistle were total *****

Not for many many years before the Merger they were'nt. From what i remember (bearing in mind i have a terrible memory) but Huntly were the team of the moment and had been for a good few seasons. Even County had had more recent sucsess than Caley, Clach and Elgin Sh1tty. If i recall corectly, Caley hadnt done much for the last 4-5 seasons they were in the Highland league.

Edited April 26, 2012 by SMEE

[Charles Bannerman]

Caledonian, Clach and Elgin were the big teams pre merger the likes of County and Thistle were total *****

Not for many many years before the Merger they were'nt. From what i remember (bearing in mind i have a terrible memory) but Huntly were the team of the moment and had been for a good few seasons. Even County had had more recent sucsess than Caley, Clach and Elgin Sh1tty. If i recall corectly, Caley hadnt done much for the last 4-5 seasons they were in the Highland league.

SMEE... your memory isn't as bad as you think! You are absolutely correct. Let me fill in a little detail.

The last Highland League "major" (ie League, Q Cup, League Cup) that Caley ever won was the League title in April 1988. After that they won very little at all until the North Cup in their last few weeks as a team in April 1994 (which was why Jags fans - who already had the Inverness Cup - used to sing "what's it like to win *&%£ all?" at the Caley fans.)

However in that intervening six year period when Caley were doing very little:-

* Jags won the Q Cup, beating Caley (at Telford Street no less!) 3-0 in a final replay in November 1988.

* Elgin had two great seasons under Pele 1988-90 and at one popint had all the trophies on their shelf.

* Ross County won back to back League titles in 91 and 92 because (WHISPER IT) Caley bottled it big time on both occasions.

* In the Inverness teams' last season 93-94 Huntly won the League title, marking a lengthy period of pre eminence in Highland League football started off by Pele until 1995 and continued by other managers - albeit latterly without Caley, Jags and County to have to contend with.

* And for God sake CLACH, not long back from the jaws of the receiver, even managed to put Caley out of the Inverness Cup at Telford Street in 1993 on the famous night of the Comet End Bus!

So we do really have to wonder if Doogie has got a serious case of retrospective vision through rose coloured spectacles, or simply whether he has been borrowing too many delusions of past glories from Aberdeen fans.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[Scotty]

Thanks everyone. When I posted this on the Jailend I re-phrased it slightly to ask if there was a game pre/post merger that sticks out in peoples minds. Since the merger is there a game in particular that stands out?

18/11/2000 for me ..... County 0-3 ICT and Alex Bone with not one, not two, but three Red Cards !!!! Some time later, I asked Charlie what he had said to Bone to make him lose the plot and punch him and although he wouldnt answer at the time, he revealed much later that it was quite mundane and he had just asked him the score

Official Report from Ian Broadfoot:

A classic Highland derby and a convincing win for Caley Thistle. County finished with nine men and were always chasing the game. The visitors’ goals came from a Dennis Wyness brace and one from man-of-the-match Mike Teasdale.

The game was played at a furious pace and Caley Thistle nearly took the lead in 10 minutes. Martin Bavidge sent over a cross from the right and Wyness headed over the bar. From the corner Bobby Mann seemed to head home with Nicky Walker beaten but it was cleared off the line by Eddie Cunnington. Five minutes later at the other end Jim Calder tipped over a Brian Irvine header. Just after the half hour mark John Fraser ran in on Calder but his shot was blocked by the ‘keeper. In 35 minutes a Darren Henderson angled lob beat Calder but came back off the post and was cleared. A minute later David Bagan sent Teasdale clear down the right and he ran on before hitting a low ball into the box. Wyness swept it past Walker from 8 yards to give the visitors the lead.

In 56 minutes Charlie Christie passed to Teasdale who this time ran down the left. From just inside the box he sent in a curling lob which deceived Walker totally and ended up in the back of the net. On the hour mark Caley Thistle got a fright when Calder completely missed a pass back and the ball slid past the post for a corner. In 63 minutes Darren Henderson followed through on Calder after the ‘keeper had saved the ball and he was sent off for a second yellow card. The third goal was again set up for Wyness by Teasdale. Wyness was closed down by two players but somehow squeezed the ball past Walker from 15 yards.

In 74 minutes frustration in the County ranks surfaced when Alex Bone received a second yellow card after a foul on Christie. Words were exchanged and Bone seemed to punch Christie. Bone’s reaction led to a second red in the referee’s room after the match then incredibly he received a third for further protests. County were now down and out and it was only a question of whether Caley Thistle would score more. Wyness tried hard for his hat trick and had three good shots in the last 10 minutes – two over the bar and one well saved by Walker. A first-class performance by Caley Thistle and a well deserved win.

[Charles Bannerman]

Thanks everyone. When I posted this on the Jailend I re-phrased it slightly to ask if there was a game pre/post merger that sticks out in peoples minds. Since the merger is there a game in particular that stands out?

18/11/2000 for me ..... County 0-3 ICT and Alex Bone with not one, not two, but three Red Cards !!!! Some time later, I asked Charlie what he had said to Bone to make him lose the plot and punch him and although he wouldnt answer at the time, he revealed much later that it was quite mundane and he had just asked him the score

Yes I was REALLY disappointed that Alex wasn't a member of the County Legends team at the Testimonial!

[ymip]

Dearest Charles, For a supposedly impartial journalist your somewhat jaundiced view of Caley's undoubted pre-eminence in the Highland League is rather disappointing. If we take the period 1980 to 1994 (fourteen season) we can see the reality of who was top dog in HL circles in technicolor detail:

Caley: 4 titles, 7 times runners-up, finished higher than Thistle 11 times, finished higher than County 11 times

Thistle: 1 title, nil runners-up, finished higher than Caley 3 times, finished higher than County 8 times

County: 2 titles, nil runners-up, finsihed higher than Caley 3 times, finished higher than Thistle 6 times.

The statistics speak for themselves; Caley were ALWAYS the dominant force, the Jags were also rans and apart from their back-to-back titles County were a flash-in-the-pan irrelevance.

For me Caley's bitter rivals were Elgin - end of story. Peterhed and Buckie had their moments but there was very little hostility towards the Jags because they weren't really in our league. Having said all that I loved our trips to Kingsmills - great days.

Edited April 26, 2012 by ymip