Investment

[+snorbens_caleyman]

With a surgeon and a vet there, the question remains - why do we always have so many injuries? 

And, as I said earlier, what do they know about running businesses of the scale of Caley Thistle?

I also note that Thomas is "Interim" Chairman, which probably means that he - and the others? - will be offski once Mr Phygital takes over.

[IBM]

34 minutes ago, Scotty said:

 

Totally agree Scotty it’s not looking good!

[STFU]

On 7/27/2024 at 9:21 AM, STFU said:

You may want to google Panos Thomas and his involvement with Watford.

Zealandism is going to have a field day.

[big cherly]

This takeover looks like it’s a done deal. However whilst S7V may have secured the 51% to control the club there are a number of serious questions regarding what money is forthcoming and when. How sound (clean) is any Jersey finance?
Is Gardener now ‘back in the game’ or do we have a leave date. What plans they intend to release regarding the land and what is ICTFC getting 250k ? Is the council on board and have they been submitted anything by the new Board?

Through in a mass of unhappy fans, it’s like a disaster unfolding in front of our eyes

I know the ST issued a ‘welcome announcement’ however in the absence of any serious information from the club or THC on the due diligence and ‘soundness’ of the takeover, can the ST issue a similar note requesting the club address the fans concerns. 
Does it need a rebellion again by the fans for the ST to act? 

Or if they are fully behind the new regime irrespective of the concerns raised, come and fully endorse them in a statement. 

Edited July 31 by big cherly

[dougiedanger]

The ST will have had another whiff of the blazer and the boardroom vol au vents.

The gullibility of the support has allowed things to get to this sorry state.

[Robert]

5 hours ago, big cherly said:

This takeover looks like it’s a done deal. However whilst S7V may have secured the 51% to control the club there are a number of serious questions regarding what money is forthcoming and when. How sound (clean) is any Jersey finance?
Is Gardener now ‘back in the game’ or do we have a leave date. What plans they intend to release regarding the land and what is ICTFC getting 250k ? Is the council on board and have they been submitted anything by the new Board?

Through in a mass of unhappy fans, it’s like a disaster unfolding in front of our eyes

I know the ST issued a ‘welcome announcement’ however in the absence of any serious information from the club or THC on the due diligence and ‘soundness’ of the takeover, can the ST issue a similar note requesting the club address the fans concerns. 
Does it need a rebellion again by the fans for the ST to act? 

Or if they are fully behind the new regime irrespective of the concerns raised, come and fully endorse them in a statement. 

You may have seen it if you are a member, but the ST has shared the text of a letter it sent to Ketan Makwana along with the reply received, in which he has committed to meeting members of the ST Board. He also said that, on the club’s advice, he has done an exclusive media interview.  

[+Fraz]

I'm sure the in house interview with Ketan will be probing and ask all the hard questions fans want answers to.

[STFU]

I imagine it will be as probing as the post match interviews with the manager.

Am I right in saying the stadium announcer is a journalist and has done these exclusive interviews/articles previously?

[Achfary]

Based on Alan Savage's comments, the appointment of Panos as interim Chairman, and the extremely questionable status of Seventy7Ventures, there is certainly more to this than meets the eye. 

The 'deal', as Alan Savage alludes to, could potentially be in-kind as another poster said, whereby carrots from Jersey might have been offered to issue new shares and relinquish others, to cross that majority threshold with minimal financial outlay. 

The next question would be: Why be so accommodating?.  The only real asset/attraction that ICT has is its prime real estate. And the key word is prime.  It is worth several millions, more in the right property asset/real estate developer's hands.  

Given the STV reported Highland Council 2022 borrowing exceeded £1.1bn, with loan charges of £80m, and John O' Groats Journal reported earlier this year that Highland Council needs to plug a gap of £113m across the next three years just to meet its basic obligations. I imagine nothing is sacred to balance the books.

Ketan thanked (central) Highland Council and I am still unsure as to what there was to thank.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Achfary - it is true that  THC has a funding problem but how do you think a private company can get around the long established principles behind Scotland's Common Good rules? Common Good Funds are not there to bail Councils out of financial black holes.

'The Highland Council, as trustees of the Inverness Common Good Fund and landlords, need to approve the lease transfer but Mr Rae said he was confident that this would not be a sticking point, given Tulloch’s support for the transfer.'

'Millions of pounds in rent payments collected from businesses on Common Good Land (the historic burghs of Scotland) make up the Common Good Funds which are used for projects that benefit communities.'

Any lease transfer that did not benefit the football club would surely not be approved? Makwana will not be familiar with the law of Scotland and any contact he has had with THC will have been with officials who would have no doubt highlighted the requirement of any lease transfer to benefit communities.

[Starscape]

9 hours ago, Fraz said:

I'm sure the in house interview with Ketan will be probing and ask all the hard questions fans want answers to.

So, Ketan, are you excited to get started? It's been your ambition to be a football club owner. Are you happy you achieved that? Do you want the fans to get behind the team?

Can't wait.

[+snorbens_caleyman]

26 minutes ago, Starscape said:

So, Ketan, are you excited to get started? It's been your ambition to be a football club owner. Are you happy you achieved that? Do you want the fans to get behind the team?

How often will we see you at matches?

[STFU]

1 hour ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

Any lease transfer that did not benefit the football club would surely not be approved? Makwana will not be familiar with the law of Scotland and any contact he has had with THC will have been with officials who would have no doubt highlighted the requirement of any lease transfer to benefit communities.

It has nothing to do with whether or not it benefits the club it has to do with whether or not it benefits the common good fund under any prescribed conditions.

People forget the club is a commercial entity.  There is nothing to stop the cgf looking at other commercial entities to pay them the rent on the land subject to any required planning consents etc.

[+snorbens_caleyman]

8 minutes ago, STFU said:

It has nothing to do with whether or not it benefits the club it has to do with whether or not it benefits the common good fund under any prescribed conditions.

People forget the club is a commercial entity.  There is nothing to stop the cgf looking at other commercial entities to pay them the rent on the land subject to any required planning consents etc.

That's more or less what I was thinking.  What was the status of the land before the stadium was built?  Apart from having a traveller camp on it.

That reminds me, does Makwana know that his club comes with a curse on it?

[Satan]

59 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

That's more or less what I was thinking.  What was the status of the land before the stadium was built?  Apart from having a traveller camp on it.

Useless bit of reclaimed land with no access road.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

18 minutes ago, STFU said:

There is nothing to stop the cgf looking at other commercial entities to pay them the rent on the land subject to any required planning consents etc.

Have you read the lease? Are you certain the Council did not apply strict conditions? Apologies if you have checked this. 

[STFU]

2 hours ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

Have you read the lease? Are you certain the Council did not apply strict conditions? Apologies if you have checked this. 

I'm talking about cgf policy.  Go have a read as they're on public record.

[Scotty]

15 hours ago, Robert said:

You may have seen it if you are a member, but the ST has shared the text of a letter it sent to Ketan Makwana along with the reply received, in which he has committed to meeting members of the ST Board. He also said that, on the club’s advice, he has done an exclusive media interview.  

Sorry Robert - the response is nonsense. Its pat you on the head stuff and telling the ST to go away so that SG might consider inviting you to the party. My question there is why SG is still at the party? He was supposed to go home a long time ago!  

 

12 hours ago, Achfary said:

Based on Alan Savage's comments, the appointment of Panos as interim Chairman, and the extremely questionable status of Seventy7Ventures, there is certainly more to this than meets the eye. 

The 'deal', as Alan Savage alludes to, could potentially be in-kind as another poster said, whereby carrots from Jersey might have been offered to issue new shares and relinquish others, to cross that majority threshold with minimal financial outlay. 

The next question would be: Why be so accommodating?.  The only real asset/attraction that ICT has is its prime real estate. And the key word is prime.  It is worth several millions, more in the right property asset/real estate developer's hands.  

Given the STV reported Highland Council 2022 borrowing exceeded £1.1bn, with loan charges of £80m, and John O' Groats Journal reported earlier this year that Highland Council needs to plug a gap of £113m across the next three years just to meet its basic obligations. I imagine nothing is sacred to balance the books.

Ketan thanked (central) Highland Council and I am still unsure as to what there was to thank.

The land is key here. I hope I am wrong, but I cant help feeling that the club is something to run down and make extinct so that everything on that site can be bulldozed and the remainder of the 99-year lease flipped to someone for loads of money based on the designation within the freeport area*. A freeport area, close to major transit hubs, sea lanes and an airport. 

The Jersey connection makes it intriguing. Who is the shadow behind the front man? Is it someone local to Inverness, or known to the club who quietly wants their hand on the land but to remain faceless for fear of personal or business reprisal? or as speculated elsewhere, is it someone who wants to remain in the background for other reasons. Its all too murky and sketchy for me. Even if things are on the up-and-up then will any of this pass the sniff test with the SFA/UEFA for the owner to be fit to run a club?  

 

*I was corrected on another thread about the stadium not being on freeport land. This appears to be correct, but reading the freeport website, it also makes reference to another area "joining" the consortium. With all the corporate doublespeak floating around right now, is it not outside the realms of possibility that the consortium could add more members?   

Edited August 1 by Scotty
added context about freeport.

[Achfary]

5 hours ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

Achfary - it is true that  THC has a funding problem but how do you think a private company can get around the long established principles behind Scotland's Common Good rules? Common Good Funds are not there to bail Councils out of financial black holes.

As Trustees, the Highland Council have leased East Longman / Caledonian Thistle Football Ground Site out for 99 years, and designated it as 'inalienable' so yes on the face of it, it cannot be altered.

However, what would happen if the club (this board/future board/CEO), for one reason or another, no longer were able/willing to uphold the lease and opted-out?  

That would return it to the trustees, potentially allow for Trustees to get a court order for the land to be designated 'alienable' (sold), or if not, more easily re-lease out.

They key for the land is that is serves promotion or improvement of economic development or regeneration, health or social and environmental well-being.  Economic development can be widely interpreted!

Basically, as long as this board/future board/CEO ensures that the lease continues to serve its original purpose/can serve its original purpose/doesn't choose an alternative location/doesn't give it up, we're golden!

Fools (gold) rush in, where angels fear to tread!

[STFU]

There's no value in the lease to anyone other than the club and cgf.

If the club default on the rent the lease is cancelled.

Even If transferred to another entity the restriction on use/purpose remains. If the club goes out of existence then the leaseholder is still liable for rent.

If the other entity wants change of use the cgf just need refuse and keep collecting the rent.  The other entity is then paying for something they can't use and are likely to give it up.  The cgf are then free to do a deal with highest bidder and keep all proceeds for themselves.

[+snorbens_caleyman]

30 minutes ago, Scotty said:

... I cant help feeling that the club is something to run down and make extinct so that everything on that site can be bulldozed and the remainder of the 99-year lease flipped to someone for loads of money based on the designation within the freeport area. A freeport area, close to major transit hubs, sea lanes and an airport.

That's basically how I feel about it, too.  But, regardless of whether the ground is in the freeport area or not, I still have a nagging question.  If that's what he (or his backers) want to do, why take over a loss-making football club with a stadium that would have to be rebuilt or bulldozed? 

There's plenty of empty land to the south-east with the same geographical advantages, apart from not having such a nice view of the bridge.   Surely he could persuade the Council to make some of that available.  Would it cost that much to instal new infrastructure - roads, water/sewage, power, etc?  Would it really be cheaper to redevelop the stadium than start from scratch?

I note that Hayes and Yeading FC is in west London, very close to the M4 running east-west, and very close to Heathrow airport.  Extremely useful if you wanted to develop a new business other than the football club.

Anyone know which other clubs - there should be five more - he has (supposedly) failed to take over?

Edited August 1 by snorbens_caleyman
correction

[Scotty]

7 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

That's basically how I feel about it, too.  But, regardless of whether the ground is in the freeport area or not, I still have a nagging question.  If that's what he (or his backers) want to do, why take over a loss-making football club with a stadium that would have to be rebuilt or bulldozed? 

Even if not in the Freeport area, then going by the map, it is pretty close to two parts that are in the area. The HC and the Freeport Consortium both show a wide area where "benefits will be felt" which basically involved someone with a compass drawing a big circle that encompassed Inverness, Cromarty, and Ardersier (which joined later than the screenshot below). I am assuming that the "benefits felt" comment was what our CEO latched onto previously and stated it would bring big benefits to the club without being able to expand on the details.  

 

7 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

There's plenty of empty land to the south-east with the same geographical advantages, apart from not having such a nice view of the bridge.   Surely he could persuade the Council to make some of that available.  Would it cost that much to instal new infrastructure - roads, water/sewage, power, etc?  Would it really be cheaper to redevelop the stadium than start from scratch?

I note that Hayes and Yeading FC is in west London, very close to the M4 running east-west, and very close to Heathrow airport.  Extremely useful if you wanted to develop a new business other than the football club.

Anyone know which other clubs - there should be five more - he has (supposedly) failed to take over?

But it would not allow him to check off one of the things on his bucket list "owning a football club" however briefly, or however tenuously on paper. 

[forthefanssubstack]

5 hours ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

How often will we see you at matches?

Not on Saturday, that’s for sure

[Achfary]

28 minutes ago, STFU said:

There's no value in the lease to anyone other than the club and cgf.

Would a new lessee / owner generate more revenue for Highland Council were they to lease / own the land?  

The typical yield is about 7% to CGF, but how much does Highland Council benefit from ICT being the lessee?  How much does ICT as lessee develop the Highland economy?

I may be landing a red herring, but Ketan tying up with a huge Jersey-based wealth management conglomerate just seemed like serendipity, until he thanked Highland Council.

[bdu98196]

Other than the 2k fans (a percentage of whom no longer even reside in the HC area) would there actually be any real objections if it went to public consultation within the city for a change of use especially if its bringing higher incomes to the council?

Its prime industrial land with direct links to the A9 avoiding any traffic through built up areas, easy access to the harbour avoiding urban areas. With GEG expanding in Nigg and ongoing works at Ardisier port there isnt many prime coastal locations with the direct infrastructure (for others that want into that space) - also is additional land around the stadium open for deals (traveler site/HC yards etc) through Highland Council?

Throw potential Free port expansion, and terms such venture capitalists with the existing board members signing over shares (which you would assume have caveats) and back slapping for the Highland Council, I think the bigger concern will be which geographical location will we be playing at in a few years and where will HC allow a smaller, low cost ICT hub to be built (if the club even exists which I'm not sure many of the stakeholders involved will even care about if the returns are significant)