Catch 22

[Guest birdog]

"Catch-22 is a term coined by Joseph Heller in his novel Catch-22, describing a set of rules, regulations or procedures, or situation which presents the illusion of choice while preventing any real choice. In probability theory, it refers to a situation in which multiple probabilistic events exist, and the desirable outcome results from the confluence of these events, but there is zero probability of this happening as they are mutually exclusive."- Quoted from wikipedia.

As fans we have been spoiled in that our club have spent the last five seasons rubbing shoulders with the best in our country, now we are back in the second string of teams and we don't like it.

We have no right to expect to be one of the elite but we do want it. To become and stay one of the elite we need to invest money into the team, money which we cannot afford unless we wish to run the risk of becoming the next Livingston, Gretna or Clyde. Catch 22.

As fans some of us are getting frustrated that we are meeting teams who we previously considered below us and not getting the results or performances which we desire to see from the guys pulling on ICT colours, these frustrations boil over and and projected vocally towards the team, having an adverse affect on the standard of football on the pitch. Catch 22.

Some of our fans feel that these frustrations are unmerited and take it upon themselves to berate their fellow fans, the latter group of fans become even more frustrated and since the former set do not have the guile to confront the latter at the match nor to raise their voice in support of the team spreading good vibes the latter pass their bigger frustrations on to the team creating worse performances. Catch 22.

Which of these situations can be changed?

The guys at the match can stop being so negative in their vocal support. This is hard given the passion with which they follow the team, at least they are doing something

The team could perform to their best negating the need for fans to be frustrated at the team's inability to beat a newly promoted division two side who have not added to their squad or a third division side who on current form (a point used on this forum to create an illusion of how well we are doing) sit second bottom of the lowest division in the senior set-up.

Those who sit on their hands and say nothing, contribute little in vocal support and come to the anonymity of a web forum to berate their fellow fans (who do make an effort on matchday, when it matters) could save all their emotions which they expel into their keyboards and use that on matchdays to create a better more appropriate atmosphere during the match.

Which is it going to be guys? Are we going to all blame each other for the teams poor performance?

Let's stop with blaming each other, at the end of the day the guys who can actually make a difference are the ones on the pitch. They are professional footballers if they cannot react to the crowd's mood (negative or positive) to improve their performance then they are missing a very important attribute if they wish to progress in their chosen career. We are not paid to perform for the team they are paid to perform for us.

All these calls for an end to negativity, we are all as negative as each other we are just projecting it in different directions, some at the team (who should be beating a side of second division standard players) and others at their fellow fans. First it was the Caley and Thistle divide, now it's the noisy and quite divide. I am beginning to doubt the ability of our fans to unite.

Edited August 17, 2009 by birdog

[Hearach]

I DO make an effort on match day - both at home and away to support the team by singing/ clapping etc. I am certainly not in favour of sitting on hands and saying nothing/ showing no emotion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and mine is that I saw a lot of promise in the side on Saturday and that is why I applauded an effort at the end which, once everyone gels together, should stand us in good stead to win the league. They had just better get it together sooner rather than later.

[caleyrule]

Good post but people sometimes people i feel forget some people just want to watch the match and not take part in songs and people are entitled to this

[Guest birdog]

Good post but people sometimes people i feel forget some people just want to watch the match and not take part in songs and people are entitled to this

True but surely if they do not want to take part in crowd interaction then that negates their right to criticise those who do, if they don't like what they hear then they could do something about it when they are at the match instead of doing it from behind a pseudonym on the internet where respect for their viewpoint will be reduced.

[caleyrule]

Good post but people sometimes people i feel forget some people just want to watch the match and not take part in songs and people are entitled to this

True but surely if they do not want to take part in crowd interaction then that negates their right to criticise those who do, if they don't like what they hear then they could do something about it when they are at the match instead of doing it from behind a pseudonym on the internet where respect for their viewpoint will be reduced.

I agree with you i sit in the main stand and try to make some noise but this season there seems to be a little more noise coming for the main stand for the simple reason a lot less business people at the ground seems to be more actual fans sitting in the main stand now

[Yngwie]

I like the idea of using famous literary works to analyse the situation at our club. War and Peace anyone?

[+Wanderer]

I like the idea of using famous literary works to analyse the situation at our club. War and Peace anyone?

Nonsense...despite the Hard Times of late I have Great Expectations for Sense and Sensibility to prevail!

[FortressICT]

Catch 22 - Tinchy Stryders new album?

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

caleyrule have you ever considered using punctuation marks ? I find your posts really hard to follow at times .

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Apologies for being pedantic but catch 22 is a paradoxical rule that has no solution.

We have a choice which you alluded to - we need a singing section at home - we have one away from home.

[buckett]

It's much simpler than that.

Scottish football teams fall into just 5 categories:

1. There's the super-rich teams (Rangers and Celtic) who will always play in the SPL.

2. There's the big teams (eg Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd., Aberdeen, generally from cities of 100,000+ population) who will normally play in the SPL, however, the occasional crisis may see them relegated to Division 1.

3 And the quite big teams - that's us folks, along with the likes of Falkirk, Dunfermline, St. Johnstone, generally from towns/catchment areas of 50,000 - 100,000, which will frequently flit from SPL to Division 1 and back - the SPL/Div.1 bias being generally dependant on the size of the town/catchment area.

4. The medium teams - pop./catchment area 20,000 - 50,000 - division 1 or 2 (see above)

5. The wee teams - Division 2 and 3 with maybe the very occasional foray into division 1.

Sorry folks, but that's the rules - don't wish to appear negative or anything, but no amount of singing or shouting is going to change that! :)

[caleyrule]

caleyrule have you ever considered using punctuation marks ? I find your posts really hard to follow at times .

People are actually reading my posts :) , yeah sorry just noticed it myself, and yeah i will start using punctuation marks.

[Johnboy]

Let's stop with blaming each other, at the end of the day the guys who can actually make a difference are the ones on the pitch. They are professional footballers if they cannot react to the crowd's mood (negative or positive) to improve their performance then they are missing a very important attribute if they wish to progress in their chosen career. We are not paid to perform for the team they are paid to perform for us.

Well said Birdog...

If only TB and MM could assemble a team that could play a bit of football, win a few games, and entertain the supporters at the same time, there wouldn't be any need for all these threads about how negative our supporters are.

[Guest WynessLegend]

Let's stop with blaming each other, at the end of the day the guys who can actually make a difference are the ones on the pitch. They are professional footballers if they cannot react to the crowd's mood (negative or positive) to improve their performance then they are missing a very important attribute if they wish to progress in their chosen career. We are not paid to perform for the team they are paid to perform for us.

Well said Birdog...

If only TB and MM could assemble a team that could play a bit of football, win a few games, and entertain the supporters at the same time, there wouldn't be any need for all these threads about how negative our supporters are.

Yeah, sack them both.

Two league games in and we're still taking part in all cup competitions and sitting joint top of the league.

What the feck are they playing at!

Come on Butcher - sort this mess out!

[PullMyFinger]

Well they did get us relegated and they've both got form for that so I say sack the board.

[DornochJAGGIE]

Good post Birdog. People are getting too frustrated with the team. The season has just started, there is still everything to play for.. There is alot of new faces in the team and it will take them a while to gell. The SFL is alot harder than most will expect it to be. Lets get behind the team and stop with all this negativity on the forum.

[DornochCaley]

Good post Birdog. People are getting too frustrated with the team. The season has just started, there is still everything to play for.. There is alot of new faces in the team and it will take them a while to gell. The SFL is alot harder than most will expect it to be. Lets get behind the team and stop with all this negativity on the forum.

:D If i remember rightly, and considering you sat beside me i do. You were one of the ones booing and shouting at the team on Saturday :P

[Sorted]

After Saturday, it is clear once and for all that many of our fans are the OF of the North. Symptoms have been there for a number of years but it is clear that this is now the full blown virus. Divine right to success, more abuse of own players/management than the opposition, ridiculous expectations about who we should have at our club, ridiculous demands that the club should do this or that and most of all the obvious pleasure it gives many when they have the opportunity to show it!!

Never gone to a game hoping my team fails but I think, in fact pretty certain now, that there are some who look forward to an afternoon of abuse for failure more than the chance to applaud success. That's when you know ur truly OF'd. Ask Alex McLeish or Gordon Strachan.

[Jay_7]

Well they did get us relegated and they've both got form for that so I say sack the board.

I believe that Italian chap Massone is looking for a new club to pump full of monopoly money in return for a chairmanship.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Buckett--where HAVE you been. ? Delightful surprise to read your always diverse thoughts.

Personally speaking I think that ICT should put all our players on drugs, increasing with the difficulty of the match in so far as expectations of defeating the opposition is concerned, then TB should really get in a total lather issuing instructions to players to thrash the opposition teams within an inch of their lives--10-0 would be good on average, developing relentless frenetic attack after attack, hopefully until one or all of the players collapses or collapse depending on the number of players left on the park at any definable time.......

Then the fan base who will never be satisfied can at least be less semi-permanently not satisfied than usual.

The point being that the task of satisfying everyone is never going to be achieved. So what is the point of this and similar threads? A fan is a fan is a fan.. B)