Disappointed in Butcher?.

[Johnboy]

Seems blindingly obvious to me that one manager had his team well and truly fired up for yesterday's game, and the other one didn't.

[acharacleoracle]

We didn't bin Mihadjuks, he was here on loan and it would have cost as money to sign him as he was and is under contract.

I doubt his Latvian home club had been willing to let him go, he came on a lot at ICT. Anyhow their old coach that didn't fancy him changed. New coach heard good things, and was keen to give him more of a chance..

We have had to make huge cuts as a result of going down, all our new signings have had to come too us on a free. Where is Butcher too look?? He has contacts in the English game... so that is where he looked...

What standard of Scottish players do you propose to get on a free?. These English guys are at least coming from a better level than the Scottish third, you can see they are not rugby players and have some technical ability, they have been coached full time and had the facilitys of bigger clubs than ICT...

So Butcher used his contacts in the English game to source his players, as Scotland assistant coach and with Malpas as his assistant at ICT, surely they have enough contacts in the Scottish game to source a couple of players from the reported 300 unemployed Scottish players currently available all on free terms?.

As for standard we were convincingly beaten by a team Scots yesterday who played with a great deal more technical ability than we did, and just to rub salt in one goal was scored by an ex ICT player.

[acharacleoracle]

butcher needs to have faith in the local talent which is coming through shinnie,park,sutherland,ross etc in the games i have seen they seem to show a lot more passion ,hunger and will to win than our so called senior players

Agreed.

[RiG]

Thats the spirit RiG blame the fans for another p1sh performance :024:

I'm not blaming the fans for the performance. I've accepted that County were the better team and we were poor on the match day thread. However the crowd have a part to play and yet again they were lacking preferring instead to boo and chastise instead of getting behind the guys. Some of the stuff coming from the North Stand yesterday was cringeworthy.

[Sorted]

Posted a detailed rant on the Matchday Thread when I came home from the game and an in agreement with the man from Loch Shiel.

After an evening on line studying TB and MM's managerial records and good sleep, I am more convinced than ever we are now under the guidance of a totally inept management team. Great players they were but as bosses, their pedigree stinks. I will happily discuss with anyone who is prepared to do their homework and come back to me with a different conclusion but whether it be Brentford, Oz, Coventry, Swindon, Sunderland, Scotland, Motherwell (in MM's case) or anywhere else the dynamic duo have served they make Brewster and Thomson look like Clough and Taylor!

Not speaking out after the event, said so at the time of appointment.

So where are we now? Dispatched good young Scottish talent like Vigurs and Woods for the sake of washers or managerial misjudgement and replaced them with third rate English pub league players who revel when play Stranraer or Coatbridge but disappear when they meet a half decfent team, playing the most inept footballer in the country at left back and leaving an established Canadian international on the bench, training without a manager all week as he pisses off to do his real job and all this at a level way below where we have been for the past years.

How TB gets the level of adoration he rceives from some of our support is beyond me! The captain of our greatest international rivals and one half of the OF, he is treated like a God by some. Dressing up in bandages FFS! Maybe that says more about some of our support and their "proper team".

Never mind though, TB always says we are a great support, presses all the right media buttons, speaks confidently and articulately as an after dinner speaker, has heaps of caps and a particularly nice one for matchday. The fact he can't tell LDZ isn't a footballer is of no concern!

We are in for a very long season of struggle no doubt. In the First Division not the SPL. But none of it is TB's fault is it!

[izzy]

Thats the spirit RiG blame the fans for another p1sh performance :024:

I'm not blaming the fans for the performance. I've accepted that County were the better team and we were poor on the match day thread. However the crowd have a part to play and yet again they were lacking preferring instead to boo and chastise instead of getting behind the guys. Some of the stuff coming from the North Stand yesterday was cringeworthy.

However bad the support was in the north stand the support in the main stand will take a lot of beating where two ICT fans stood up and cheered Vigurs as he left the park , which led to them almost coming to blows with a true ICT supporter.Shocking behaviour. All teams have off days so for God sake lets support our team when they need it most. Just a pity our first bad game of season had to be against R C. Have faith.

[Alex MacLeod]

300 unemployed players..........that'll be 300 not good enough for even the juniors?

Not so long ago our managers were being chastised for looking no further than the Scottish lower leagues for players. Those we let go went because they wanted more than we could pay them or because they didn't show the drive and commitment required.

Dundee brought in a load of players and where are they? A point above us and not at the top. Our problem is not the players ability. Our problem is that too many times the team goes out and doesn't play. That is why Brewster went and there were all sorts of rumours about him losing the dressing room. When the team comes out of the tunnel its only they who can dictate the game. If they choose not to do the basics they get humped. There has to be some reason for this, and someone suggested the fans, and it has to be fixed. I dont know the reason nor how to fix it but considering the same often happened under Christie and Brewster its hard to blame Butcher.

[kiltarlity]

The club have brought this on themselves to some extent, the "bounce back into the SPL line"... which has given some fans totally unrealistic expectations...

They have done this because it's what these kind of fans want to hear ! It sells season tickets!

However history shows that it's a near impossible goal, it takes time to build a new team and thats where we are at present.

If we had money perhaps we could buy a team of experienced players and do this but he don't.... The first is a competitive league with only one promotion slot, their are teams in this league that are stronger than us at the moment. fact!! cos they have been rebuilding for a few years.

Sorry you guys couldn't see this, having your bubble burst in such a cruel way by County... must be hard to take.

Edited August 30, 2009 by kiltarlity

[tm4tj]

Butcher picked the players. He has brought in half a dozen guys this year. I am not a big fan of some of these players as they don't appear to have the toughness required when the going gets tough. Yesterdays game saw us out thought and out played by a County side who were better prepared for the battle. Now for the life of me, I don't believe the players deliberately set out to play rubbish. Were they playing to the managers plan? If so, what was that plan? As far as I could make out we had no width. That seemed a strange decision when Eagle and Hayes should have been ripping into the County defenders. We had no ball winners in the midfield, Cox was surprisingly subdued, while Stratford and Sanchez are afraid to go into any sort of challenge. We don't need fairies in the middle, we need a ball winner and a creator, yesterday we had neither on the park. Foran failed to deliver, Rooney did what he does best, hits the keeper with the ball when he is one on one. Some of these things are outwith the managers responsibility, but the way we set out our stall was surely his remit and therein lies the problem.

Terry is a marvelous PR man, and he must have said something naughty to them at half time, but it was too little too late. By half time Lionel was shot to pieces, our solid backline was looking fragile and County exposed us for what we were.

The opening post asked the question regarding his signings. I am not so sure after witnessing that debacle yesterday that they are right for this league. Get some Highlanders back in there and get stuck in. I wonder also is the Scotland job having any effect on his day job.

[DanielMacBean]

absolutely disgusted in the result today. absolute joke

[DornochCaley]

We talk about the players not being used to SFL type football....Well i dont think that Butcher is used to SFL type football.

[acharacleoracle]

Posted a detailed rant on the Matchday Thread when I came home from the game and an in agreement with the man from Loch Shiel.

After an evening on line studying TB and MM's managerial records and good sleep, I am more convinced than ever we are now under the guidance of a totally inept management team. Great players they were but as bosses, their pedigree stinks. I will happily discuss with anyone who is prepared to do their homework and come back to me with a different conclusion but whether it be Brentford, Oz, Coventry, Swindon, Sunderland, Scotland, Motherwell (in MM's case) or anywhere else the dynamic duo have served they make Brewster and Thomson look like Clough and Taylor!

Not speaking out after the event, said so at the time of appointment.

So where are we now? Dispatched good young Scottish talent like Vigurs and Woods for the sake of washers or managerial misjudgement and replaced them with third rate English pub league players who revel when play Stranraer or Coatbridge but disappear when they meet a half decfent team, playing the most inept footballer in the country at left back and leaving an established Canadian international on the bench, training without a manager all week as he pisses off to do his real job and all this at a level way below where we have been for the past years.

How TB gets the level of adoration he rceives from some of our support is beyond me! The captain of our greatest international rivals and one half of the OF, he is treated like a God by some. Dressing up in bandages FFS! Maybe that says more about some of our support and their "proper team".

Never mind though, TB always says we are a great support, presses all the right media buttons, speaks confidently and articulately as an after dinner speaker, has heaps of caps and a particularly nice one for matchday. The fact he can't tell LDZ isn't a footballer is of no concern!

We are in for a very long season of struggle no doubt. In the First Division not the SPL. But none of it is TB's fault is it!

Well said that man.

[acharacleoracle]

Butcher picked the players. He has brought in half a dozen guys this year. I am not a big fan of some of these players as they don't appear to have the toughness required when the going gets tough. Yesterdays game saw us out thought and out played by a County side who were better prepared for the battle. Now for the life of me, I don't believe the players deliberately set out to play rubbish. Were they playing to the managers plan? If so, what was that plan? As far as I could make out we had no width. That seemed a strange decision when Eagle and Hayes should have been ripping into the County defenders. We had no ball winners in the midfield, Cox was surprisingly subdued, while Stratford and Sanchez are afraid to go into any sort of challenge. We don't need fairies in the middle, we need a ball winner and a creator, yesterday we had neither on the park. Foran failed to deliver, Rooney did what he does best, hits the keeper with the ball when he is one on one. Some of these things are outwith the managers responsibility, but the way we set out our stall was surely his remit and therein lies the problem.

Terry is a marvelous PR man, and he must have said something naughty to them at half time, but it was too little too late. By half time Lionel was shot to pieces, our solid backline was looking fragile and County exposed us for what we were.

The opening post asked the question regarding his signings. I am not so sure after witnessing that debacle yesterday that they are right for this league. Get some Highlanders back in there and get stuck in. I wonder also is the Scotland job having any effect on his day job.

Yes indeed, get the Highlanders back in. The SFL will never be a display of pure football, its grunt and grind.

The Scotland job was mentioned in Butchers post match comments, he won't be around much this week at ICT and will leave Malpas to report on any reaction to yesterdays match. Not exactly hands on then.

[DornochCaley]

Posted a detailed rant on the Matchday Thread when I came home from the game and an in agreement with the man from Loch Shiel.

After an evening on line studying TB and MM's managerial records and good sleep, I am more convinced than ever we are now under the guidance of a totally inept management team. Great players they were but as bosses, their pedigree stinks. I will happily discuss with anyone who is prepared to do their homework and come back to me with a different conclusion but whether it be Brentford, Oz, Coventry, Swindon, Sunderland, Scotland, Motherwell (in MM's case) or anywhere else the dynamic duo have served they make Brewster and Thomson look like Clough and Taylor!

Not speaking out after the event, said so at the time of appointment.

So where are we now? Dispatched good young Scottish talent like Vigurs and Woods for the sake of washers or managerial misjudgement and replaced them with third rate English pub league players who revel when play Stranraer or Coatbridge but disappear when they meet a half decfent team, playing the most inept footballer in the country at left back and leaving an established Canadian international on the bench, training without a manager all week as he pisses off to do his real job and all this at a level way below where we have been for the past years.

How TB gets the level of adoration he rceives from some of our support is beyond me! The captain of our greatest international rivals and one half of the OF, he is treated like a God by some. Dressing up in bandages FFS! Maybe that says more about some of our support and their "proper team".

Never mind though, TB always says we are a great support, presses all the right media buttons, speaks confidently and articulately as an after dinner speaker, has heaps of caps and a particularly nice one for matchday. The fact he can't tell LDZ isn't a footballer is of no concern!

We are in for a very long season of struggle no doubt. In the First Division not the SPL. But none of it is TB's fault is it!

Totally agree

[Fanoffooty]

The club have brought this on themselves to some extent, the "bounce back into the SPL line"... which has given some fans totally unrealistic expectations...

They have done this because it's what these kind of fans want to hear ! It sells season tickets!

However history shows that it's a near impossible goal, it takes time to build a new team and thats where we are at present.

If we had money perhaps we could buy a team of experienced players and do this but he don't.... The first is a competitive league with only one promotion slot, their are teams in this league that are stronger than us at the moment. fact!! cos they have been rebuilding for a few years.

Sorry you guys couldn't see this, having your bubble burst in such a cruel way by County... must be hard to take.

B) Well said and yes expectations have become too high , we've not got the team we had in previous seasons , just look at Scotsport on a monday night & see the X ICT players now in the SPL , its hard to think they were all with us at one time . :025:

[Guest birdog]

:026: :025: Well said and yes expectations have become too high , we've not got the team we had in previous seasons , just look at Scotsport on a monday night & see the X ICT players now in the SPL , its hard to think they were all with us at one time . :(

These players, the Ex-ICT, now SPL players is it at all possible we have not replaced these players it is down to the fact that we have not had the managers capable of seeing the talent that is in front of them, whether it be local youngsters fighting their way through or seasoned, skill full, professionals released at the wrong time?

I don't really want to enter this debate further until 8th November, yes I do have some expectations maybe they are too high but I have been used to watching an SPL side who had some class in it, that class was there and left without our management teams replacing it or trying to retain it. I don't think I am expecting too much when I say that I expect ICT to be within 3 points of the top of the table on November the 8th, if not then my support for the current management structure will be reassessed.

[CaleyD]

I'm not disappoint in Butcher at all. and I'm a long way from thinking his appointment was a mistake or that any consideration should be given to replacing him.

Look at just how fecked up this team was when he took over and how he managed to lift them and at least give us a fighting chance of survival last season. He then had to do the job all over again to lift the guys after relegation whilst working with a signing remit that made wages available but gave him nothing for signing fees meaning he had to find players for free.

This is one bad game, and the fact that (given all of the above) we've managed to put together a squad who have managed to compete with Dunfermline, Ayr and Dundee is not bad going IMO.

What we witnessed yesterday is what Brewster was dishing up week after week and yet we have the very same people who were insistent that we give Brewster chance after chance now hitting the panic button and asking for Butchers head?

I think that (some) of the moaning has more to do with sending some kind of misguided "get it up you" message to those who supported the sacking of Brewster than it is about what Butcher is or is not doing....it's as if some so called fans are almost willing disaster upon us this season to prove some kind of point!!!

[Guest birdog]

I'm not disappoint in Butcher at all. and I'm a long way from thinking his appointment was a mistake or that any consideration should be given to replacing him.

Look at just how fecked up this team was when he took over and how he managed to lift them and at least give us a fighting chance of survival last season. He then had to do the job all over again to lift the guys after relegation whilst working with a signing remit that made wages available but gave him nothing for signing fees meaning he had to find players for free.

This is one bad game, and the fact that (given all of the above) we've managed to put together a squad who have managed to compete with Dunfermline, Ayr and Dundee is not bad going IMO.

What we witnessed yesterday is what Brewster was dishing up week after week and yet we have the very same people who were insistent that we give Brewster chance after chance now hitting the panic button and asking for Butchers head?

I think that (some) of the moaning has more to do with sending some kind of misguided "get it up you" message to those who supported the sacking of Brewster than it is about what Butcher is or is not doing....it's as if some so called fans are almost willing disaster upon us this season to prove some kind of point!!!

I get that feeling too but if, in the past and when we were a far less attractive team to sign for, we could find players of a quality which saw us battle through the leagues to a seat at the top table then why can't we do it now? We are an ex-SPL side looking to bounce back, why are there no Robsons, Rankins, Blacks or Cowies wanting to put themselves in the shop window? I believe they are out there, I believe we even had a couple at the club until the end of last season but they were released to make way for others who are not showing much worth at this time. 8th of November, that will be when we know if Butcher has the mix right. Until then I am right behind the man and his team, by then they should know each other and the division well enough to do the job in hand.

[DornochJAGGIE]

I not dissapointed in Butcher some of the players hes brought in are doing well and keeping the team together at the moment.

Cox for example is a great replacement for black, him and stratford are a good partnership in the middle. Cox is strong on the ball, good at winning the ball back off the opposition. Cox has shown that he is also capible of scoring goals from midfeild too.

Hayes is a good, fast winger what we needed after morais left.

Sanchez look like a decent enough striker......ect

[TopSix]

The spectators in the North Stand were shocking yesterday. I think Butcher and Malpas will last til the end of the season. From their management point of view if they DON'T win the Scottish First then they're CVs will be a bit poor to secure alternative employment when they leave. I make this statement on the assumption that they only have this season left on their contracts?

The home spectators need to get real.

Win the league, no real cash investment, no time for new signings to gel. I can understand why people were booing yesterday but I was disappointed with people booing LDZ. Hardly encouraging from his perspective?

I think we will fare a lot better next Sunday in the cup.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

I'm not disappoint in Butcher at all. and I'm a long way from thinking his appointment was a mistake or that any consideration should be given to replacing him.

Look at just how fecked up this team was when he took over and how he managed to lift them and at least give us a fighting chance of survival last season. He then had to do the job all over again to lift the guys after relegation whilst working with a signing remit that made wages available but gave him nothing for signing fees meaning he had to find players for free.

Frankly, I am disappointed in Butcher. I was at the end of last season when I was probably in a minority by blaming him for letting safety slip through our fingers. I still maintain that when we were virtually safe with three games to go, a decent manager would have adopted tactics in the final 3 games to ensure us staying up.

I didn't agree with letting Vigurs and Wood go, replacing them with unproven players of no greater ability it would seem. As far as I can see his tactics, player aquisitition, team selection, and motivational skills still leave a lot to be desired . I hope he can prove me wrong, but his well documented track record in management doesn't fill me with confidence. I would guess that he and Maurice are costing the club considerably more than their immediate predessessors. I think they really need to step up to yhe plate quickly, to prove thet are worth it.

[tokelyisvictorious]

what a difference a week makes. if we beat partick next week everything will be rosy again.

the performance was bad, but the players know it and butcher knows it. they only need to read this forum for 2 minutes to see how much it mattered yesterday (not that you could tell with the majority of fans).

the whole brewster saga seems to have given some 'fans' on here the frame of mind that if ict don't stroll through every match then someone is to blame. Perhaps beaten by a team better on the day?

no of course not, its butchers fault, lionels fault, sanchez's fault, the fans fault, referee's fault, grantie's fault, everyones fault.

[Georgeios]

The spectators in the North Stand were shocking yesterday. I think Butcher and Malpas will last til the end of the season. From their management point of view if they DON'T win the Scottish First then they're CVs will be a bit poor to secure alternative employment when they leave. I make this statement on the assumption that they only have this season left on their contracts?

The home spectators need to get real.

Win the league, no real cash investment, no time for new signings to gel. I can understand why people were booing yesterday but I was disappointed with people booing LDZ. Hardly encouraging from his perspective?

I think we will fare a lot better next Sunday in the cup.

Of course we will, we are **** one week and fan*******tastic the next but then somthing happens... they go back to being **** again...

CaleyD, This has not been just one bad day at the office, look back over the last few weeks games cup and leauge.... we are a good team but only after a **** week before...

Edited August 30, 2009 by themann4thejob
tone the abusive posts down please

[CaleyD]

Looking over the last few weeks games (yesterday aside) I don't see any losses!!!

We've won a game we should have drawn, drawn a game we should have won and drawn a game where we probably weren't expecting much more....and we're still in both cups.

You'll forgive me if I'm struggling to see whatever point it is you're trying to make.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

http://www.ictfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Club...~893004,00.html

Three points off the top, close to second bottom, currently in two cups, a new squad blending, a team in crisis because Ross County hammered us.