Free Professional Provision

[caley100]

:thumb04:

[Joonya]

I am really liking the formal information you are putting forward to the club and agree with BillyShears that we could do with slightly more detail in their, yet perhaps no to the extent mentioned, as all points will no doubt be elaberated on during any up and coming meetings with the club.

May I also suggest that we have a list of personel who would be able to attend any meetings on a regular basis. If we had 3-5 people at meetings, we would get more of a view point whilst also missing very little off any minutes that may be taken for the 'boardroom banta' correspondence.

These people would also be a new voice who can perhaps in time work with the trust, supporters club and ICT themselves to push all communications and the club further. I for one would be willing.

[CaleyD]

Free or reduced price tickets to local schools.

The Supporters' Trust have bought some season tickets, which we use to give away to local schools and/or youth clubs and associations. We piloted it for half season tickets last season and following it's success we have continued with it. If you know any youth groups or organisations who might be interested in attending a game, give mairi a shout as she looks after the bookings we have

No disrespect intended Laura, and its a commendable idea, but don't you think the club should be doing this rather than the trust ... Perhaps instead of making you buy them, the club should be giving you a certain quantity of free child/youth season tickets which you can manage and allocate to those who might need/want them

Can't disagree Scotty, your not the first to suggest we should get them free of charge if we take on the management of them, but it was down to the fact that it wasn't happening that we introduced the pilot last season. We did negotiate a bit of a 'deal' on this years tickets. At the end of the day it's just a different way of putting pennies in the ICT pot. We are trying to tie in some other things to enhance the experience for the groups and just hope that a few of them drag parents along in years to come.

LG, you're already aware that I find it absolutely appalling that the club charge the Trust for these tickets and that not only should you be getting them for free, but you should be getting more than the amount you have at present.

My Nieces and Nephews come home from school regularly with information about things that Ross C*unty are doing for kids in relation to football and it feels like they could have free tickets to go there for just about every home game if they so desired. Add to that the fact that when my sister stayed in Pumpgate Court, my Niece and her friends would be welcomed in to watch Clach (so long as they behaved) on a Satruday afternoon without having to part with a penny.

ICT are supposed to be the most senior, professional club in the area and your lucky if the kids come home with one piece of information a year about what's going on at TCS, or what kids initiatives are being run by us etc.

We have 2500 to 3000+ empty seats for every home game, so surely it would do no harm for the club to be giving away a 1000 tickets every fortnight to primary schools and offering ?5 tickets or something to secondary schools.....and every now and again you not only give the kids a free ticket, but you give them an adult ticket to go along with it (subject to entry for both adult and child together to reduce the number of people who will try and abuse it).

Granted, we'd probably take a hit on the number of season tickets sold to children, but surely the adults attending and the revenue from other areas would/could go a large way towards offsetting that. Even if it cost the club money in the early years they are capturing full paying adult fans for the future.....not to mention all those kids who are in the habit of going to see ICT now wanting parents to buy tickets for cup matches and the like.

Offer similar incentives in the Away end also. How often have ICT fans not travelled to a game because they have kids to look after and taking them to away days is far too expensive? It works both ways, and as I was getting at above, it's better to have a bum in a seat and make even ?1 from them than it is to have an empty seat which is bringing you nothing.

In fact, what ever happened to the U12's Passport Scheme or whatever it was? I seem to remember that being well received, yet I've not heard anything more about it.

Whilst I'm on a wee rant....there's nothing that bothers me more than when making a suggestion you get the "do other clubs do that?", or "what do other clubs do?" response. I don't give a flying fig what other clubs do, it's what we do that's important. Not only are we in a unique situation due to geography, but every now and again I wouldn't mind seeing us taking the initiative on something instead of following on the coat tails of others.

[Joonya]

Whilst I'm on a wee rant....there's nothing that bothers me more than when making a suggestion you get the "do other clubs do that?", or "what do other clubs do?" response. I don't give a flying fig what other clubs do, it's what we do that's important. Not only are we in a unique situation due to geography, but every now and again I wouldn't mind seeing us taking the initiative on something instead of following on the coat tails of others.

Your idea seems great on paper Don, and if the club started this scheme for 'smaller' games such as Hamilton, Killie & Montherwell, then we shall surely see a return when you consider people would purchase items on the day (catering, Programmes)

Even starting off as small as 500 free child tickets, they could set the adult prices as between ?5 or ?10 say. The 500 or so children mentioned would need to be from local primary schools, or even those who once had season tickets and now dont due to finacial restraints.

[Scotty]

In fact, what ever happened to the U12's Passport Scheme or whatever it was? I seem to remember that being well received, yet I've not heard anything more about it.

It was an SPL initiative that died .... no blame on ICT for that one.

[CaleyD]

I know, and I wasn't blaming the club. I was just using it to show that these things can be well received....although pointless if you don't continue them.

Just because the SPL initiative died, it doesn't mean we (or any club) should give up on the idea behind it. As I said, it would be nice if we showed some of our own initiative from time to time...if it worked and was bringing in more Away fans, then let's facilitate it ourselves and not rely on the SPL or anyone else to do it.

[CaleyD]

Jnr, whilst I am all for doing the things I mentioned to increase bums on seats and possibly improve revenue streams I do realise, and so must others, that some things won't bring an instant surge in profits/disposable funds for the club.

In fact, many of these initiatives would doubtlessly cost the club money in the short (even medium) term. Let's use the catering as an example. The club (as far as I know) simply rent the space for a flat fee, so increased pie sales wouldn't be money straight in the clubs pocket. What does happen though is that with more people coming through the gates and more people spending money at the serveries, the value of those catering pitches increases. So when the contract/lease comes up for renewal and the club put it out to tender, they can command a higher rental income.

Whilst the fans should understand that these things need to be taken into account, the club also need to be confident that the fans will support the efforts long term and make them viable.

That's where I think this "void" between club and fans is doing damage....fans are losing/have lost faith in the club to be delivering on certain things, and the club don't appreciate that if they do things in a certain way and get fans to buy in to their position then together it can be made to work.

It's something I come back to time and again, but when I was working with Change Management at RBS the most important thing in any relationship between a business and it's customers during periods of change and adjustment was to Manage Expectations.

Maybe we have it all wrong and if you sit down and put the figures together then it doesn't make sense over the short, medium or long term....but when you have so many people saying the same thing and making the same ideas then their comes a point where you have to sit down and do the figures and make the case one way or the other. You can liken the fans of a team to kids if you want, you know the annoying stage they go through where everytime you refuse them something or tell them know the only response you get is "Why?"....there's only so many times you can dismiss them with a "Because I said so" before you have to sit down and actually explain the reasons "Why" so as they will stop pestering you. And, as anyone who has kids, grandkids, nieces, nephews or whatever around will tell you, every now and then you'll get one little smart erse among them who disproves your reasons and makes a case for themselves that you just can't ignore.

In short, it all comes back to communication. The more the club and fans communicate, the better the understanding will be and the more likely fans will be to accept "Why" some things are as they are, and from time to time the fans will surprise the club by coming up with something which makes perfect sense.

[billyshears]

Quote from Caley D

"Whilst I'm on a wee rant....there's nothing that bothers me more than when making a suggestion you get the "do other clubs do that?", or "what do other clubs do?" response. I don't give a flying fig what other clubs do, it's what we do that's important. Not only are we in a unique situation due to geography, but every now and again I wouldn't mind seeing us taking the initiative on something instead of following on the coat tails of others."

Interesting that you start your post citing examples from County and Clach, considering you "don't give a flying fig what other clubs do"!

Also is it really a case of "so many people saying the same thing" or is it just a few people saying the same things over and over again? In the short time I have been on this site I have posted on 2 threads and on both more than half of the posts (47 out of 90) come from just 4 people (and how many of those 4 are season ticket holders?)

I know that pretty much everyone on here has the club's best interests at heart, but to suggest that those in charge at the TCS don't is nuts. The difference is that the board and senior management live or die (not literally!) by their actions. It is easy to rattle away on our keyboards knowing that we can make sweeping statements and generalisations, without having to back them up with facts and figures, all under a veil of relative anonymity.

I applaud the likes of Scotty, Caley D, Gringo Jr, IHE et al. who are willing to stand up in front of the board and present our case, but as I have said before, be prepared to have your ideas taken apart and scrutinised. Most of the board are wealthy, successful businessmen and these guys didn't get where they are today (to paraphrase CJ! - you probably won't get it if you are under 35) by giving anything away. These guys want solid numbers, not "if you spend this money on that, we're pretty sure it will increase ticket sales" and I've a feeling I know what the response to a suggestion of giving away 1000 tickets to to some of the quieter games would be.

If the 4 aforementioned forumists (I think I may have just made up a word!) truly reprensent the opinions of the 4000+ regular fans, fair play. I would suggest, however that you trawl these pages for someone who may offer a slightly different perspective. From what I have read so far, 5th Stand, often offers a bit of balance to many of these discussions.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of the ideas on here seem pretty sound, but Caley D cites the importance of managing expectations and as with things like the re-instatement of the Boardroom Banter, we should take things 1 step at a time, and not expect things to improve overnight. In this regard I believe we should be entering into something like this with 1 specific change (maybe 2 at a push) we want to see taking place (make it reasonable, realistic and achievable) and concentrate our efforts on making a case that the board will have difficulty refusing. Discussing 6 items would mean not going into detail in any of them. If you get half a dozen or so people giving their opinions the limited time you have will run away from you.

[PullMyFinger]

Don't get me wrong, a lot of the ideas on here seem pretty sound, but Caley D cites the importance of managing expectations and as with things like the re-instatement of the Boardroom Banter, we should take things 1 step at a time, and not expect things to improve overnight. In this regard I believe we should be entering into something like this with 1 specific change (maybe 2 at a push) we want to see taking place (make it reasonable, realistic and achievable) and concentrate our efforts on making a case that the board will have difficulty refusing. Discussing 6 items would mean not going into detail in any of them. If you get half a dozen or so people giving their opinions the limited time you have will run away from you.

I think that's what IHE's standing agenda is about, identify areas for improvements, prioritise them and take the top few to the board with solutions. They should be Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic and Timebound. Hang on SMART? Maybe IHE shouldn't be in the loop.

[CaleyD]

Quote from Caley D

"Whilst I'm on a wee rant....there's nothing that bothers me more than when making a suggestion you get the "do other clubs do that?", or "what do other clubs do?" response. I don't give a flying fig what other clubs do, it's what we do that's important. Not only are we in a unique situation due to geography, but every now and again I wouldn't mind seeing us taking the initiative on something instead of following on the coat tails of others."

Interesting that you start your post citing examples from County and Clach, considering you "don't give a flying fig what other clubs do"!

The point I was getting at, and perhaps I should have worded it better, was that whilst it's fine to look at what other clubs are doing to get ideas, just because they don't do it doesn't mean it's non-starter. Also, when someone puts an idea forward, the first response shouldn't be "Do other clubs do it?".

From my own personal experience in dealing with the club on several things, both recently and a few years back, that was/is the typical response. All that says to me is "Here we have a person who isn't confident operating in the field they are in, and isn't confident in making decisions based on their own knowledge and understanding of things."

If you ask a fireman to put out a fire, you expect him to know how to do it, you don't expect him to phone up the fire station in the next city to see what they do.

When I was in communication with the club last season about the problems arising from what fans saw as over zealous stewarding and I asked that the club consider some kind of handbook or communication explaining the rules, where they come from and why they are in place, the first response I got was something along the lines of "Well I'm not sure it's necessary as other clubs don't do it".

That's the kind of thing I am getting at and the response I would have been expecting was, "ok, let's look to see if there's a need, and if so, then let's look to see what we can do, and perhaps we can have a look to see if there's a succesful solution being used by another club."

I know that pretty much everyone on here has the club's best interests at heart, but to suggest that those in charge at the TCS don't is nuts. The difference is that the board and senior management live or die (not literally!) by their actions. It is easy to rattle away on our keyboards knowing that we can make sweeping statements and generalisations, without having to back them up with facts and figures, all under a veil of relative anonymity.

I applaud the likes of Scotty, Caley D, Gringo Jr, IHE et al. who are willing to stand up in front of the board and present our case, but as I have said before, be prepared to have your ideas taken apart and scrutinised. Most of the board are wealthy, successful businessmen and these guys didn't get where they are today (to paraphrase CJ! - you probably won't get it if you are under 35) by giving anything away. These guys want solid numbers, not "if you spend this money on that, we're pretty sure it will increase ticket sales" and I've a feeling I know what the response to a suggestion of giving away 1000 tickets to to some of the quieter games would be.

I don't think it's so much that those on the board don't have the clubs best interests at heart, I just think that they've lost sight of the importance of the fans. I also think that a lot of what they do, and how they do it alienates fans to a greater or lesser extent. You only have to look back a week to see the Chairman in the press and on TV listing Sponsors and Advertisers as "the lifeblood of this club"...with the fans only being added to that statement afterwards when it went to press.

Without Sponsors, Advertisers etc then the club might not be what it is today, but without fans then you don't have a club at all....tell me, which is most important, and why should fans accept it when they are portrayed as an after thought, or a necessary evil?

As to putting forward proposals, I've been there, done that and bought the t-shirt. I've lost count of the number of times I've put together proper, structured proposals to the club on things. And again, in my experience, they are either ignored totally or taken from you and then quietly passed off as someone else work by the time they get upstairs.

Electronic Ticketing System, Club Mascot, Merchandising Ideas, New Telephone System...that's just 4 that I can come away with of the top of my head that all happened in the last 4 (ish) years where I did extensive work on the preperation of proposals and ideas and someone else has taken the credit....I could probably go through my e.mails and files and find another dozen things which have either never been answered or might have passed under my radar and gone into place.

When the club were busy during the summer leading up to and the first season in the SPL, they were happy enough to have fans like me running merchandise over to the Eastgate for them, covering in the shop, running of posters for things and doing the grunt work for many other things. Then when your perceived as surplus to requirements....bam, your gone without so much as a thank you.

I used to stand in the stadium and watch "hangers on" getting given freebies for this that and the next right left and centre. Not because of what they did for the club, but because of who they were. Inever so much as took a free ticket for a game from the club for all I did, yet when I had ticket problems for a game against C*unty (I had tickets, they just weren;t the ones I had bought and paid for) and I asked for it to be sorted, I was basically told "tough luck".

The club know exatly who I am so there's no veil of anonymity here, relative or otherwise and I would welcome even the opportunity to sit down and talk over my concerns in a proper manner. It's not been for the want of asking, and I even approached Alan Savage and Grassa at the Fans Forum about the whole Brewster/Warnock thing and said to them that me ranting in the forum about things and them getting p*ssed off at the stuff thats said doesn't do anyone any good and ask would they be willing to have a proper meeting. The agreed....but I'm still waiting!!!

If the 4 aforementioned forumists (I think I may have just made up a word!) truly reprensent the opinions of the 4000+ regular fans, fair play. I would suggest, however that you trawl these pages for someone who may offer a slightly different perspective. From what I have read so far, 5th Stand, often offers a bit of balance to many of these discussions.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of the ideas on here seem pretty sound, but Caley D cites the importance of managing expectations and as with things like the re-instatement of the Boardroom Banter, we should take things 1 step at a time, and not expect things to improve overnight. In this regard I believe we should be entering into something like this with 1 specific change (maybe 2 at a push) we want to see taking place (make it reasonable, realistic and achievable) and concentrate our efforts on making a case that the board will have difficulty refusing. Discussing 6 items would mean not going into detail in any of them. If you get half a dozen or so people giving their opinions the limited time you have will run away from you.

On that last point we will agree. I think we're a million miles away from Set Agendas and Fans sitting down round a table with the Club and thrashing out ideas and suggestions and people need to realise that whilst talk of a return of the "Boardroom Banter" is a positive step, it is just that....a step. Right now I'd be happy with the club acknowledging fans concerns on certain things and producing even the briefest forms of newsletter/regular communication on what's going on the moment. From there it can be taken forward and looked at as becoming more of a two-way thing.

To try and do everything at once is a recipe for disaster and an end to things before they have a proper chance to get off the ground.

Not all fans are "highly succesful businessmen", but we're not all so wet behind the ears and gullible as you might think. Treat us with a bit of respect when it comes to things and you might just find you get a bit of that back.

[Scotty]

I applaud the likes of Scotty, Caley D, Gringo Jr, IHE et al. who are willing to stand up in front of the board and present our case, but as I have said before, be prepared to have your ideas taken apart and scrutinised. Most of the board are wealthy, successful businessmen and these guys didn't get where they are today (to paraphrase CJ! - you probably won't get it if you are under 35) by giving anything away. These guys want solid numbers, not "if you spend this money on that, we're pretty sure it will increase ticket sales" and I've a feeling I know what the response to a suggestion of giving away 1000 tickets to to some of the quieter games would be.

I have always been prepared to have my ideas scrutinised, taken apart and modified or rejected .... it happened all the time when I was doing the last set of BB articles and some of the ideas we suggest or questions we ask this time will likely have the same fate .... The main point is re-establishing the dialogue as far as I am concerned. The rest will follow if we can get that right.

I think I have also tried to 'manage expectations' in some of my recent posts (as has IHE) by mentioning that we should walk before we run and that we should not expect every single thing to be answered as some things simply cannot be. I think it has also been made clear that people should expect a few answers that say "NO" and most have said that is acceptable if there is a 'because' sentence added to the end of it.

[PS: i get the reference .... but remember that CJ ended up working for RP !!]

As for the 4 people not being ST holders .... I assume you mean myself, IHE, Gringo Jnr and Caley D .... I dont think any of us have to be to have the best interests of the club at heart or make sensible suggestions !!! I actually was one for a number of years before I moved over here (as well as a shareholder and centenary club member) and would still be one if I was living in Inverness. By the end of this year I will have travelled 14,000 miles to see a total of 3 hours of football .... IHE is also a frequent traveler and Gringo Jnr moved up here to be closer to the team so the yardstick should not necessarily be that you have a ST.

Anyhoo .... not wanting to get too confrontational with you as I think we are basically saying similar things and your suggestions are also pretty good. The format will obviously be a work in progress right up to and beyond the meeting with GB and I am sure the club will also have an idea how they want it to work .... between us, hopefully we come up with a workable solution that everyone can be happy with.

[PullMyFinger]

When I was in communication with the club last season about the problems arising from what fans saw as over zealous stewarding and I asked that the club consider some kind of handbook or communication explaining the rules, where they come from and why they are in place, the first response I got was something along the lines of "Well I'm not sure it's necessary as other clubs don't do it".

That's the kind of thing I am getting at and the response I would have been expecting was, "ok, let's look to see if there's a need, and if so, then let's look to see what we can do, and perhaps we can have a look to see if there's a succesful solution being used by another club."

Do the security companies not have a "code of conduct"? I'm sure the Security Industry Authority must have, might be worth having a look at. Maybe the Club could/should look into it?

I don't think it's so much that those on the board don't have the clubs best interests at heart, I just think that they've lost sight of the importance of the fans. I also think that a lot of what they do, and how they do it alienates fans to a greater or lesser extent. You only have to look back a week to see the Chairman in the press and on TV listing Sponsors and Advertisers as "the lifeblood of this club"...with the fans only being added to that statement afterwards when it went to press.

Without Sponsors, Advertisers etc then the club might not be what it is today, but without fans then you don't have a club at all....tell me, which is most important, and why should fans accept it when they are portrayed as an after thought, or a necessary evil?

Have you considered the possibility that the chairman regards the fans as part of the club?

As to putting forward proposals, I've been there, done that and bought the t-shirt. I've lost count of the number of times I've put together proper, structured proposals to the club on things. And again, in my experience, they are either ignored totally or taken from you and then quietly passed off as someone else work by the time they get upstairs.

Electronic Ticketing System, Club Mascot, Merchandising Ideas, New Telephone System...that's just 4 that I can come away with of the top of my head that all happened in the last 4 (ish) years where I did extensive work on the preperation of proposals and ideas and someone else has taken the credit....I could probably go through my e.mails and files and find another dozen things which have either never been answered or might have passed under my radar and gone into place.

ICT's first ever glory hunter?

When the club were busy during the summer leading up to and the first season in the SPL, they were happy enough to have fans like me running merchandise over to the Eastgate for them, covering in the shop, running of posters for things and doing the grunt work for many other things. Then when your perceived as surplus to requirements....bam, your gone without so much as a thank you.

Thankyou, CaleyD! :thumb04:

To try and do everything at once is a recipe for disaster and an end to things before they have a proper chance to get off the ground.

Not all fans are "highly succesful businessmen", but we're not all so wet behind the ears and gullible as you might think. Treat us with a bit of respect when it comes to things and you might just find you get a bit of that back.

Agreed.

[Alex MacLeod]

5thstand either works for BP (S.M.A.R.T) :thumb04: or he reads a lot of 'how to be a manager' books ;)

billyshears sounds like he could be pretty close to the Board at ICT :018:

Both, however, put across very valid and sensible points.

We are still a very young club. We are reaching the end of our childhood, have learned a lot along the way, but know there's still a difficult road in front of us.

A club of this size cannot be expected to give away hundreds of tickets. They could, however, subsidise the trusts initiative. As suggested a 'two for one' would be a step in the right direction. Nor can they be expected to wave a magic wand and solve everybody's complaints.

There are a number of issues that people would like to see being addressed, and I'm sure there are people at the club who would also like them sorted just as much as the complainants would, but those things dont happen overnight.

We see stewarding as an issue simply because we never had to comply with the SPL rules in the early years of our climb. In the lower leagues standing was the norm. I would like to see, in the interim, stewards being instructed to use common sense. In other words, if fans are standing and singing but not infringing on anyone else then let them be. If others are being affected by the standing then take the necessary action. In the long term I'd like to see club and supporters lobbying the SPL to relax some of the stupid rules they have in place.

I would like to see improvements to the policing and exiting of carparks. It really p*sses me of having to go left out of the carpark when I want onto the A9.

I'd like to see the club make some effort to allow flags and banners to be displayed. (Especially the BENI one )

I'd like to be able to go, on the half time whistle, for refreshments and be back in my seat before the second half begins.

I could go on and on but I'm a realist. I know that to get anything done I have to walk before I can run. The first thing is to build dialogue. To create openness and honesty on both sides and to trust each other. Get that right and the rest falls into place.

Like Gringo Jnr I would be prepared now and again to give some of my time to keeping the dialogue alive. I'm sure Scotty will get the ball rolling and I'm sure, with hard work and patience we can all have a part to play in taking this club through its puberty stage and into adulthood.

No doubt one or two will make the comment that Alex MacLeod is siding with the club. And thats there opinion but just to put the record straight Alex MacLeod only sides with reality. Pie in the sky will not satiate my hunger.

[PullMyFinger]

5thstand either works for BP (S.M.A.R.T) :thumb04: or he reads a lot of 'how to be a manager' books :018:

No cigar this time.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

In my experience with dealing with senior management, you are more likely to get co-operation if the points you are making are reasonably detailed and can suggest your own positive desired outcome.

Hope this helps.

DOH I started off with - Here is a draft letter of proposal folks - We evidently have to agree on the initial items for discussion and some suggestion pertaining to each as well - what do ya think ?

And in the letter I added - We also intend to support any concerns raised with constructive suggestions on how we feel that the identified issues can be alleviated or lessened. We intend to do likewise in regard to any suggestion made to make improvements in aspects of the clubs profile and reputation in the local community.

I left the feckin points blank - so that they could be debated and free fer peeple - like you - to put down their comments.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I am moving the feckin letter on to another thread - feel free to have a rant or a rave on here but keep to the point on the other feckin thread.

Good points from 5th Stand and the aging rigger tho.

[billyshears]

billyshears sounds like he could be pretty close to the Board at ICT :thumb04:

No cigar from me either, friend! Just trying to balance the discussion by attempting to see things from their side. I was, in a past life, a middle manager and therefore am well versed in seeing it from both angles.

It also sounds like Hell hath no fury like a Caley D scorned . Sorry if that's a little insensitive, Don, it certainly sounds like you got a raw deal. However, as has been mentioned here before, I imagine there are those at the club who do read these pages and the tone of your threads will not see their attitude toward you change. Take a leaf out of Scotty's book, he too was pushed aside when no longer needed, but he just rolls with it and rises above it (and relaxes in his hammock). In the past few years and into the future there will be a turnover in personnel in charge of the club and I'm sure you'll get a fresh start at some point. Also you mention that there at least 4 things that the club have instigated at your suggestion, surely that is a good thing, I thought one of the main gripes here was that the club don't take any of these things on board - I'm confused!

Regarding the stewarding. The stewards presumably follow (or attempt to follow) SPL guidelines, which themselves may or may not be available via SPL channels. Also I see them as being like referees and linesmen. We, as fans, get hacked off at perceived bias and inconsistencies, but at the end of the day they are human and apt to make mistakes and are all part of the great game.

The congestion around the stadium immediately after a match is very frustrating and I believe the police and stewards do the best they can out of a bad situation, but it could be worse. The congestion we experience in the north of Scotland is nothing compared to that down south. I always park tactically, usually ten minutes walk from the stadium but it saves me at least that when I avoid having to sit in a queue of traffic after the game.

I share your views about the half-time catering, but since this is probably farmed out to outside agencies, resolving this would involve getting them in on the discussion. Do we know which company is responsible? It may be more effective to raise our concerns directly with them, maybe suggest an express counter for those of us who just want a simple pie - I imagine a lot of the hold-ups are for those awkward beggars who are having things that need to be made to order.

[billyshears]

[PS: i get the reference .... but remember that CJ ended up working for RP !!]

Ah, but who, in our case, is Reggie? - maybe its you Scotty. Scotty for Chairman 2010!!

As for the 4 people not being ST holders .... I assume you mean myself, IHE, Gringo Jnr and Caley D .... I dont think any of us have to be to have the best interests of the club at heart or make sensible suggestions !!! I actually was one for a number of years before I moved over here (as well as a shareholder and centenary club member) and would still be one if I was living in Inverness. By the end of this year I will have travelled 14,000 miles to see a total of 3 hours of football .... IHE is also a frequent traveler and Gringo Jnr moved up here to be closer to the team so the yardstick should not necessarily be that you have a ST.

I actually didn't know whether the 4 of you were or not (although I assumed that you weren't, living in Canada and all) Its just that ST holders go to every game and will be in a good position to offer judgement on things such as stewarding, catering, car parking, club shop/ticket office, quality of play and how they may be progressing or otherwise on a week to week basis. I'm sure you'll admit yourself its difficult to get a good view of the club with the Atlantic Ocean in the way!

[CaleyD]

Nothing to be confused about. My experiences with the club as listed above all occurred at, or around, the time when we were making the transition from Div 1 to SPL.....which, IMO, was the beginning of the problems which have led things to where they are today. A bit of underhand skulduggery by some staff to win points upstairs I can cope with if the club benefits in the long run, but when added on to all the other frustrations then, yeah, itt does make my blood boil a bit.

It's a bit of a clich?, but if I didn't care so much about the club, then I wouldn't get so worked up about it. I don't claim to be any bigger, better or more passionate a fan than the next man, but there's certain things that have happened to me which perhaps give me a "unique bond" to ICT and which most may never understand, and I know for a fact that when I perceive people as doing things which are damaging the club then it does make me quite angry. Now, you're probably reading this thinking "weirdo", and I'm cool with that, just as I'm cool with your "Hell hath no fury" comment. Your not the first person to tell me these things, and you'll not be the last

I too have worked in middle management and am aware of the need to look at things from both sides. As my background is in Financial Services (primarily compliance) and Change Management, then certain things stand out a mile as being obviously "wrong" in the way the club are doing certain things and trying to spin other things....and I can also see how poorly they have managed the transition up to the SPL and all the changes that have come about and been forced upon them by that process.

I've tried the "relaxed" approach to it all, and even when people were passing my stuff off as their own etc, it never stopped me from offering the help and assistance. I had people telling me back then that I was a fool to keep on going back for more, and maybe I was. The thing is, I would go back again if I was asked too and so long as the club were benefiting then I'd maybe even put up with some of the same old chit.

In ten years when I've made my millions and retire early I'll invest in the club and put it all to rights....until then I'll keep on making my points in the hope that maybe someone might at least show me the courtesy of listening.

[billyshears]

I too have worked in middle management and am aware of the need to look at things from both sides. As my background is in Financial Services (primarily compliance) and Change Management, then certain things stand out a mile as being obviously "wrong" in the way the club are doing certain things and trying to spin other things....and I can also see how poorly they have managed the transition up to the SPL and all the changes that have come about and been forced upon them by that process.

I'm intrigued, care to elaborate....?

I've tried the "relaxed" approach to it all, and even when people were passing my stuff off as their own etc, it never stopped me from offering the help and assistance. I had people telling me back then that I was a fool to keep on going back for more, and maybe I was. The thing is, I would go back again if I was asked too and so long as the club were benefiting then I'd maybe even put up with some of the same old chit.

Good for you! :thumb04:

In ten years when I've made my millions and retire early I'll invest in the club and put it all to rights....until then I'll keep on making my points in the hope that maybe someone might at least show me the courtesy of listening.

Hey, we're listening, bud!

[Alex MacLeod]

For the record I am not an ST holder but that does not make me any less passionate or knowledgeable about the club. I work offshore so its pointless buying an ST but I do try and get to as many games as I can when I'm on leave. Probably more away than home.

Its just that ST holders go to every game and will be in a good position to offer judgement on things such as stewarding, catering, car parking, club shop/ticket office, quality of play and how they may be progressing or otherwise on a week to week basis.

I would like to think I am as qualified as any ST holder to offer judgement on most of the above.

[PullMyFinger]

For the record I am not an ST holder but that does not make me any less passionate or knowledgeable about the club. I work offshore so its pointless buying an ST but I do try and get to as many games as I can when I'm on leave. Probably more away than home.

Its just that ST holders go to every game and will be in a good position to offer judgement on things such as stewarding, catering, car parking, club shop/ticket office, quality of play and how they may be progressing or otherwise on a week to week basis.

I would like to think I am as qualified as any ST holder to offer judgement on most of the above.

Some only manage 2 games a year, eh Scotty?

Doesn't make him any less passionate either..........though there is Toronto in the MLS.......

[billyshears]

For the record I am not an ST holder but that does not make me any less passionate or knowledgeable about the club. I work offshore so its pointless buying an ST but I do try and get to as many games as I can when I'm on leave. Probably more away than home.

Its just that ST holders go to every game and will be in a good position to offer judgement on things such as stewarding, catering, car parking, club shop/ticket office, quality of play and how they may be progressing or otherwise on a week to week basis.

I would like to think I am as qualified as any ST holder to offer judgement on most of the above.

Some only manage 2 games a year, eh Scotty?

Doesn't make him any less passionate either..........though there is Toronto in the MLS.......

I am certainly not questioning the passion of the likes of Scotty, who physically can't get to games, I am just pointing out that those who do regularly go to games at the TCS (like Alex) are perhaps better placed to give examples of bad stewarding, poorly marshalled car parks and achingly slow catering service at half-time etc.

[Joonya]

Although I see where you are coming from there, I dont think you have to go to all, or even the majority of games to see poor stewarding.

Take for example the St Mirren match that us Highland Marchers walked to the other season. My wee lad (marc), who was 7 at the time, was sitting with his feet on the back of the chair in front for much of the match, not in anyones way and certainly not causing a neusence. A steward marched from the bottom of the stand to our location at the back, tapped his feet off the chair and in a harsh tone told him to not do it. he by-passed every single youth and adult doing exactly the same without so much as a glace. To say I was angry about this is an understatement, and I even got more harsh words for even contacting St Mirren about this than I did an apology.

This incident may well have been a one off - but I doubt it. It took just one action from that steward to put me off going to st mirren again for a long time, let alone leaving marc in floods of tears till we reached Perth McDonalds en route home, and he was scared of every steward he came accross during the first few games of last season.

If this had happened in our own stadium to a home supporter, no doubt they would steer clear of future games just like I intended to steer clear of St Mirren. Even punters seeing others treated in such ways would perhaps put people off.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Mr Shears has a really good point and as I said it would probably carry a lot more clobber if remarks and comments are passed by others rather than the usual suspects. Perhaps summat in the programme describing Boardroom Banter may entice others to comment on the forum - they can have any user name and that is practically anonymised if they want to post their comments. The concerns raised have to be on behalf of the support and not the Internet minority.

Me - I go to most away games but if I come home I am usually well oiled, get a lift to the game and get somebody at the front of the queue to grab ma gash.

The only item I could comment on is the stewarding. :thumb04: