EVIDENCE GATHERING TEAM

[4ize]

Quite unbelievable...what has happened to MY club?

I was at a game in Cyprus this year where every seat had a flare for every fan to set off at the start of the game. The atmosphere was electric and fiery, very fiery and very hot n smokey! (The kids that were playing with several dozen nicked from seats were a worry I will admit but...we all got out alive.) Still, it inspired the home team to a good win.

Now, my first venture to TCS for 5 years or so and the loyal support want to send a message to the club. For the first time in my life I see an "Evidence Gathering Team" filming genuine ICT supporters with legitimate flags/banners. What f*cking control freak thought that was good PR?

Meantime upstairs at Police Control we are being scrutinised by Plod...yes guys I saw you with your binoculars.

I've been reading some weird accounts on here in the last year but I see what has been said is complete truth...we are a club in freefall.

The board is bankrupt, the stewarding is bankrupt, the security is bankrupt, the team are plain sh!te, the club shop...oh dear me, and our manager is an embarrassment...

...I used to be proud to say I'm a shareholder...

Ha!

You've not been for five years...

Thank **** for that. So we're not just looking through sh!te-tinted glasses? You do start to doubt yerself after a bit. Like Winston, I remember a time when things weren't like this, but don't let yourself get caught remembering...

[CaleyD]

I actually found the whole "Evidence Gathering Team" thing quite funny to be honest. I even shouted after them at half-time that should they find any evidence of tactical ability in the stadium then I'd be interested in them letting us know.

Seriously, it's nothing to get worked up over and I don't think the club have any right to see the footage unless it's part of police investigation into any trouble....of which their was none.

If they were there at the request of the club, then it only serves to show just how out of touch the club are with the fans, in so far as we were never likely to start ripping out seats and causing problems.....but maybe that's part of the problem, we're far too soft a touch!!!

[SMEE]

.....but maybe that's part of the problem, we're far too soft a touch!!!

I think thats not too far from the truth D! Up here...we are too scared to cause a scene or be loud, coz its not the highland way. hence why 50 fans from teams from the south can make more noise than hundreds of our fans

[TheresNoEsInBlack]

The police do this all over the place where there are big crowds... T in the Park, Rock Ness, Septic & Rangers matches down here in Glasgow, street demonstrations etc. Don't worry about it, unless you're ripping out seats in the stands! I'm guessing they're only doing it at our matches because they've got the kit and are supposed to use it. Either that or they are building a database of people's faces that use naughty sweary words at football matches.

Maybe a post on the club website by the police explaining what its all about would help folk understand.

[Scotty]

fact of the matter is that we have had CCTV at the stadium for donkey's years which is relayed to the control room upstairs. I am sure there is probably something in the terms and conditions of your ticket or season book somewhere validating its use.

The introduction of a roving team filming the crowd is worrysome, but if I am honest, it does not surprise me in the least. Football forums such as this one, P&B and many others are viewed carefully by many people, not least the authorities.

Given the amount of talk this past week about protests, banners and such like it would be ludicrous to think that much of the information did not reach the club, the Northern Constabulary and even the UK Football Policing Unit and expecting "trouble" the cameras were on hand to record it and start procedures to issue banning orders if it got out of hand. Look what happened (stewarding wise) when IHE made a couple of comments about streaking and Feb8 let his bosses know .............

In a written reply to a parliamentary question a few months ago (regarding UEFA cup final in Manchester), the SNP's Kenny Macaskill answered as follows: "Regular discussions take place between the Scottish Police Service and the National Football Intelligence Unit and reports of any adverse behaviour of football supporters at any domestic, European or international game are submitted to the National Football Intelligence Unit".

There are a few other interesting responses about football banning orders as well (about 2/3 down the page).

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business...8/wa0529.htm#22

PS: At Toronto FC games we have undercovers within the crowd scrutinising the behaviour of certain fan groups and/or targetted individuals and these guys carry guns !!!! Dont get too worked up over it ... if you have been at an ICT game your face is probably already in a database somewhere

[dead_ball_specialist]

Good to see that police resources are being used sensibly, the north stand is a hotbed of political radicalism and potential terrorist activity.

[Kirishima]

My instincts here tell me it will be used as a training video for new recruits to the Northern Constabularly. Giving them a chance to see some animated behaviour and then ask the raw recruits "How would you handle this situation" etc.

Still, not the nicest thing to be subjected to. Did they film the severe overcrowding in the South stand too?

[PullMyFinger]

My instincts here tell me it will be used as a training video for new recruits to the Northern Constabularly. Giving them a chance to see some animated behaviour and then ask the raw recruits "How would you handle this situation" etc.

Still, not the nicest thing to be subjected to. Did they film the severe overcrowding in the South stand too?

Were any Dons fans turned away at the turnstile? What would you have done in that scenario?

Is it possible that they were checking the crowd for any known troublemaking Dons fans?

Either way nothing to worry about.

[Alex MacLeod]

There's nothing sinister in this. Camera's are fitted around the stadiums of every SPL club and relayed to monitors in the match command centre. Thats the door you never get to look inside when on a stadium tour. If there is any hint of impending trouble the police will use additional camera's. Protests were well publicised on this site. The police would monitor it all. They film all such, not only to look out for any troublemakers but also, as evidence in court if any trouble does start.

[Kirishima]

5th Stand - I certainly wouldnt have put them into an overcrowded stand. The Taylor report, whether you agree with it or not, is there for a reason. If something had happened where a child had been knocked over and broke all their teeth what do you think would happen?

The flipside which i think you are talking about is that it would do more harm than good to turn them away. Not so, the safety of those inside the stadium is paramount and that was jeopordized yesterday. Whatever happens outside the stadium is each individuals responsibility, but once inside it is a collective.

How are fans going to follow orders to not stand in the steps or indeed at their seat when this kind of action is being tolerated.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Kirishima

[PullMyFinger]

I was suggesting that fans may in fact turned away and made their way to the home end and that the cameras were recording to identify any Dons fans in the home crowd in case of any trouble.

I don't believe that scenario, but I am trying to keep an open mind about the cameras.

[breachofthepeace]

In fairness to the police they will be aware of what has been posted on this forum over the last few weeks and the call for protest to take place, if they didn't do anything about it they would rightly be criticised if there was, for example, any sort of pitch invasion or other such protest so it's right that they keep an eye on things.

Furthermore they will want to be aware of who the "Troublemakers" are for away matches and other police forces who take charge of away games.

Big Brother is watching you - shame on you who believe in free speech.

What strikes me about the whole thing is how sad the situation is, could anyone have imagined things as bad as this a few years ago, or ever?

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

.....but maybe that's part of the problem, we're far too soft a touch!!!

I think thats not too far from the truth D! Up here...we are too scared to cause a scene or be loud, coz its not the highland way. hence why 50 fans from teams from the south can make more noise than hundreds of our fans

The Clach fans showed that comment to be false against Stenny the other week , maybe the old bill were scared the Clach fans would turn up at TCS yesterday .

Edited December 21, 2008 by DALNEIGHCALEY

[davie]

All are right. This was an invasion of your privacy for no good reason. If they were filming everyone in section G that includes me and I object. The guys with the banners were restrained and polite in the face of the stewards provocation, which the female with the radio claimed she was being directed to do by "control" As interventions go, it just polarised opinion even more.

It's time you slung your hook CB

[Heilandee]

Shocking thread,i can't believe what football has come to.

I haven't been to TCS this season,due in the main to an incident last season against St Mirren when ICT came back from 2 down to win 3-2 and a young and exuberant lad jumped the wall and was dragged out of the ground with his feet literally not touching the ground by heavy handed polis who went on to charge him.I remonstrated with them post match but they justified their actions as the match commander had instructed any one going onto the field should be arrested and charged.When folk like CaleyD and Mantis are scunnered it really is time for the club to sit up and take notice or i fear for the future of ICT and football in general.I personnally have had enough of being treated like a criminal purely for supporting my team( be it Dee or ICT) and wont be back in the forseeable future if at all.

[Kirishima]

I agree Davey. You dont spend 25 quid at a leisure event and expect to be filmed by police. This was obviously something that ICT allowed, and i dont think it is fair to one minute be happily munching your pie with tomato sauce over your face and slurping your Bovril and the next realise its on camera, how uncomfortable are ICT going to make the whole stadium experience be??

[TSTtiger]

quote

I think thats not too far from the truth D! Up here...we are too scared to cause a scene or be loud, coz its not the highland way. hence why 50 fans from teams from the south can make more noise than hundreds of our fans

didnt used to be the case though as all who followed highland league clubs in 70s 80s and 90s would have seen.times have changed in football across the country but dont think the ways of old are buried too far beneath the surface in most fans, but a malaise has set in. that wont continue if things dont change for the better and the board continue taking us for mugs

[clacher_holiday2]

I pressume the Trust have an opinion on the fans being filmed for no reason?

[strathyjags]

a young and exuberant lad jumped the wall and was dragged out of the ground with his feet literally not touching the ground by heavy handed polis who went on to charge him.I remonstrated with them post match but they justified their actions as the match commander had instructed any one going onto the field should be arrested and charged.

so why a season or so back when 200+ dundee utd fans invaded the pitch,and worse taunted ict fans from the front of the main stand on the pitch,none of them were arrestted?? same as any old firm fan who goes on the pitch,is it because were easy touches?

[Caley Stan]

There's nothing sinister in this. Camera's are fitted around the stadiums of every SPL club and relayed to monitors in the match command centre. Thats the door you never get to look inside when on a stadium tour. If there is any hint of impending trouble the police will use additional camera's. Protests were well publicised on this site. The police would monitor it all. They film all such, not only to look out for any troublemakers but also, as evidence in court if any trouble does start.

Sinister is exactly what this is. We can have a debate about CCTV another time maybe, but this is something different. Having a policeman pointing a camera at people while they are sitting at a football match is designed to intimidate. It's impossible to ignore and it makes the people being filmed feel like they are guilty of something. I found the whole thing disgusting and i'll be telling the club and police how i feel later in the week.

I thought the singers at the Bridge End singers were really good yesterday. We got behind the team throughout the first half and showed our feelings about the current management for a short period after the third goal went. Understandably, everyone went a bit flat after that.

We are very tolerant supporters - maybe too tolerant. The club should be thanking us for our patience and support instead of sticking cameras in our faces to try and scare us.

[PullMyFinger]

The club should be thanking us for our patience and support instead of sticking cameras in our faces to try and scare us.

They would have to acknowledge there is a problem first and that's not happening any time soon.

[Alex MacLeod]

The club would not have had any say in what the police do. Northerns finest took precautionary action believing, from information gleaned on this site, that there may be crowd trouble within the home section of the stadium. They do have the backing of the law on this. They would have filmed every area of the stands and if anything had arose the match command would have been able to say what area it started from and the video would then be used to pinpoint perpetrators.

We can blame the club for many things but not for this.

[PullMyFinger]

Orwell knew what he was talking about didn't he? We are not really free anymore.

[L_G]

I pressume the Trust have an opinion on the fans being filmed for no reason?

Clacher - your trust bashing is getting very boring. Every opportunity you have a go.

We have been very busy over the last week or so dealing with the 'Brewster' situation, but you will understand we haven't had a chance to meet to discuss this since yesterday. I'm sure it is something that will be discussed when we meet next, in fact I'll give you my assurance that I will put it on the agenda for both our board meeting and the next meeting with ICT. We will then report back once we have something to say.

We are a small board of ICT fans who do have lives outside ICT. I think we put a fair amount of time into our Trust duties and had there been a serious incident, I can assure you that our chairman DJS would be arranging a meeting with the club as we speak, but I think this one can wait until our next scheduled meeting.

This as usual is only my opinion before you start complaining about the Trust again.

[Caley Stan]

The club would not have had any say in what the police do. Northerns finest took precautionary action believing, from information gleaned on this site, that there may be crowd trouble within the home section of the stadium. They do have the backing of the law on this. They would have filmed every area of the stands and if anything had arose the match command would have been able to say what area it started from and the video would then be used to pinpoint perpetrators.

We can blame the club for many things but not for this.

I would be very surprised if there wasn't communication between the club and the police on this. Hasn't Mike Smith been known to interfere in these matters in the past?

Don't you find it strange that the police are standing, filming a relatively small group of pissed off (though ultimately peacefuly) ICT fans while at the other end of the pitch away fans can bounce around in an overcrowded stand doing pretty much whatever they want?

Are people being targeted by the police because of their opinions rather than their actions?

The whole thing is repulsive.