Kilmarnock -V- ICT : matchday thread

[ICTPaisley]

After seeing the highlights last night i am shocked at the 3rd goal. Was Lionel sleeping? That should be a sackable offence.

Bring back Golly and offload Lionel as soon as possible, he's had his chances and keeps on blowing them.

[MabawswaRichie]

I'm not sure how you work that out. I tend to judge my strikers on goals and since Rooney has scored more for us than Barrowman then in my book he's better.

To be fair to Barrowman, he was hardly ever played. When he was played, he was either played out of position or didn't receive the service he needs. Rooney appears to be Butchers favoured striker - but why? I'd be embarrassed of his strike ratio.

Rooney:

08/09 (SPL) - 6 goals in 36 appearances (11 starts, 25 sub) = strike rate of 16.66 %

09/10 (SFL) - 13 goals in 31 appearances (17 starts, 14 sub) = strike rate of 41.93%

Overall - 19 goals in 67 appearances (28 starts, 39 sub) = strike rate of 28.36%

Barrowman:

08/09 (SPL) - 2 goals in 33 appearances (15 starts, 18 sub) = s/r of 6.06%

09/10 (SFL) - 1 goal in 8 appearances (2 starts, 6 sub) = s/r of 12.5%

Overall - 3 goals in 41 appearances (17 starts, 24 sub) = s/r of 7.31%

That's not a strike rate, which has already been explained. A strike rate is goals per shots, not goals per games.

Edited February 7, 2010 by MabawswaRichie

[EWS]

I think you will find you are wrong.

In terms of football, the strike rate is a goals per game ratio.

If you compare shots / goals then defenders would be the best strikers in the game. I would much rather my players were at least having shots and being in the position to score goals, then not even having the chances.

Rooney has a much better strike rate then Barrowman.

Edited February 7, 2010 by EWS

[ICTPaisley]

Ridiculous to think Barrowman was a better player than Rooney for ICT. However i still don't have that "special feeling" when Rooneys on the ball like i did in the old days when Ritchie and Wyness were upfront for us in the first.

[caleymore]

Not impressed with Lionel yesterday. All tree goals came from mistakes in the left back position and his passing was very poor.

Good team performance otherwise, only wish Rooney could find a bit more pace.

Was looking to see if "Jimmy says hi to a killie pie" had been posted on UTube but cant find it, someone out there must have it..

[Renegade]

Have to laugh at some people, Lionel has a bad game and all of a sudden Golabek is Maldini and Roberto Carlos all rolled into one! Golabek has look rather mediocre in every game (bar County away) I've seen him play him in. Hopefully a new competent left back can be signed at some point, or the very promising Graeme Shinnie can step out to the plate.

[Jay_7]

So if a striker decides he will only shoot when he gets into a position where he has an open goal from 6 inches and can't miss and as a result only has one shot all season from which he scores, then by your reasoning he will have a strike rate of 100% and be the greatest striker in the world. Get real!

Preposterous extrapolation of what I have said. Have a re-read of my points and then post again.

Haha nice one,, i cannot believe that this argument is even happening, jay_7, how can you even think Barrowman is better than Rooney when he has scored the same amount of goals in one game this season than barrowman did in his 18 months here. It doesnt matter if you miss four or five chances in a game, as long as you make up for it with a goal, which Adam has been doing this season. If you look t our last 3 games, he has gained us 7 points with his winners or equallizers. I am delighted barrowman has gone. Not even good enough for our bench when he was one of our highest earners? Co*nty are welcome to him. After his hat-trick (if the first was actually his) Garry Wood will probable be kept in the squad for now.

See above. Also, care to point out where I have said that Barrowman is the better striker? I can't back that up therefore I did not say that.

Ridiculous to think Barrowman was a better player than Rooney for ICT. However i still don't have that "special feeling" when Rooneys on the ball like i did in the old days when Ritchie and Wyness were upfront for us in the first.

See above.

I find it interesting to see the number of people willing to jump on a bandwagon and just make stuff up from a post that they haven't read properly.

Anyway, after watching the highlights last night - it's pretty clear that Shinnie is the only left back we have left at the club capable of playing. With Golly out injured at the moment and Lionel, well he just plain can't play football, Shinnie can do a job for us there under the guidance of Munro. Lionel simply cannot play another game for us this season - he can't be trusted.

[ICTPaisley]

Wasn't Golly back on the bench yesterday? Could be mistaken though. He needs to start from now on until the point comes when we can no longer achieve promotion, after that maybe give Shinnie a chance to prove his worth.

Nobody is saying Golly is the left back saviour we need but he has been far better than Lionel in ALL games i've seen him play in. The simple fact is Golly is still good enough to start for us, Lionel isn't.

[davieB]

Lionel was woeful again yesterday, but in saying that....the whole defence was. There was actually very little between the teams, difference was they took their chances, we didnt. And we certainly had enough of them...Rooney in the first min, the one where it seemed to run along the line, Foran;s shot, Rooney completely missing the ball.

The problem with Lionel is, other than he's *****, that the rest of the defence gets pulled out of position far too easy when he's playing. He gets caught upfield so often, it normally results in gaping holes in the defence as one of them then has to cover for the missing left back.

Not despondent at all after yesterday, we played some good stuff, but, as with so often this season, we werent clinical enough in front of goal. And, unfortubately, they were.

[SeanSelkirk]

lionel to be fair wasnt very good but however, great singing about JC

[Caley Mad In Berks]

Have to laugh at some people, Lionel has a bad game and all of a sudden Golabek is Maldini and Roberto Carlos all rolled into one! Golabek has look rather mediocre in every game (bar County away) I've seen him play him in. Hopefully a new competent left back can be signed at some point, or the very promising Graeme Shinnie can step out to the plate.

Have to agree with you there, Renegade. I wasn't there, so don't know first hand how bad (or otherwise) Lionel was yesterday. But most people are very quick to condemn him, indeed seem to get great delight in slagging him off at the least opportunity. I've seen Golabek live on at least four occasions this season and he has ranged from OK down to absolutely shocking (Cup final in Perth for example). He is not the answer. So, I'd agree in blooding Shinnie for the rest of the season, now that our promotion chances are nil minus.

[Sorted]

Have to laugh at some people, Lionel has a bad game and all of a sudden Golabek is Maldini and Roberto Carlos all rolled into one! Golabek has look rather mediocre in every game (bar County away) I've seen him play him in. Hopefully a new competent left back can be signed at some point, or the very promising Graeme Shinnie can step out to the plate.

Have to agree with you there, Renegade. I wasn't there, so don't know first hand how bad (or otherwise) Lionel was yesterday. But most people are very quick to condemn him, indeed seem to get great delight in slagging him off at the least opportunity. I've seen Golabek live on at least four occasions this season and he has ranged from OK down to absolutely shocking (Cup final in Perth for example). He is not the answer. So, I'd agree in blooding Shinnie for the rest of the season, now that our promotion chances are nil minus.

The obvious solution was allowed to go to Hamilton as TB didn't fancy him. Hastings was, for me, by far our best left back and is now playing every week in the SPL. And as Scotty point out earlier, Imrie MOM yesterday.

Many of our bosses have made some strange decisions ranging from CB signing Barrowcash and LDZ to TB letting Vigurs/Wood go and giving LDZ a contract extension. By far the most bemusing to me (ok dropping Easson for Ike with five games to go last season comes close!) was allowing Dick to go and thinking that Golly, who hadn't featured for County for ages, could replace him.

LB causes huge problems directly and by the chaos and uncertainty that flows through the rest of the back four driven by the constant fear of disaster!

[HumbersideDude]

Not impressed with Lionel yesterday. All tree goals came from mistakes in the left back position and his passing was very poor.

Good team performance otherwise, only wish Rooney could find a bit more pace.

Was looking to see if "Jimmy says hi to a killie pie" had been posted on UTube but cant find it, someone out there must have it..

Will put something on later tonight. Will let you know.

[Kylef]

as i said, ive never been one for lionel crushing, ive seen him do some effective things, but if you were there yesterday you would know how damaging he was. woeful.

notice the people who are sticking up for him werent there yesterday. too many chances and hes not matching up to them. whereas Golabek aint maldini or whatever comparison you are making, but hes far more effective in every game i have seen him in.

[Granty24]

We were beaten today by the team that is the in form team of the SPL at the minute. What I hear is that we played very well and made a few chances so personally I have no problem with the defeat.

In the days when we were seen as giant killers we had a squad that had been together for a few seasons and who had gelled together, got on well with each other and played for each other. It will take time to build up that sort of camaraderie, workmanship. honesty and belief again but I have no doubt it will happen.

Jay_7 Rooney is joint second top scorer in the league so how can he be embarrassed with his strike rate.

In all comps this season:

Griffiths Played 27 scored 17

Rooney played 27 scored 12

Harkins played 28 scored 12

That's not a strike rate. Strike rate is number of goals scored from shots taken. I'd put money on Rooney having one of the worst goals from shots ratio in the country, never mind the league.

If thats the case then whats Barrowmans strikerate? surely worse than Rooneys

[Pele_Is_God]

If you were at the Cup final you would clearly see Golly is finished. Get Shinnie in now and give him experience.

[tm4tj]

How bad was Lionel yesterday...............probably his worst game ever for us. Constantly trying to be too clever and losing the ball, always taking one touch too many, one turn too many and probably one game too many. You had to see the game to believe it, we were all over Killie for half an hour, and then the roof caved in. First half chance for them, Esson not looking too clever at the goal as he was caught in no mans land as the ball was simply lifted over his head and into the empty net. The defenders were culpable as well as Bully never attacked the ball. Second goal just took away any hope we had. The third goal was incidental and went unnoticed by our fans as we were too busy serenading Tangoman. The young fans take a bashing some times for their choice of phrases, but yesterday they were absolutely fabulous. Best 3-0 defeat I have ever witnessed. The singing clapping and dancing overshadowed the football, and rightly so. Don't forget, we also had enough chances to win six games, but Cammy Bell was in great form, especially the save from Forans volley.

However, highlight of the day was definitely Jimmy says aye to a Killie pie.

Well done fans.

Edited February 7, 2010 by themann4thejob
spellnigging

[Jay_7]

If thats the case then whats Barrowmans strikerate? surely worse than Rooneys

Quite what you're arguing here is beyond me.

BARROWMAN NEVER GOT CHANCES!!!!

What part of that is difficult to comprehend?!

[caleyblue]

yet again tango mans got tatics spot on with too big centre forwards who caused us problems all day like when he weas at abdn lee miller did the same thought at 2-0 down tb would amke changes and killie keeper had some great saves . now to the support thanks for making the trip worthwhile was awsome wife was still singing on way up the a90 the day

[jaggie1994]

If thats the case then whats Barrowmans strikerate? surely worse than Rooneys

Quite what you're arguing here is beyond me.

BARROWMAN NEVER GOT CHANCES!!!!

What part of that is difficult to comprehend?!

He played 40 odd games and scored 3 goals iirc.

I do agree that he never got a prolonged run of games to try and get on a scoring run but even if he did I dont think he would of scored. Not because he is a bad player but because the way we play doesnt suit him.

Barrowman is not a clinical finisher. Yes he scored 29 goals for County in the second division but he needs to have 4 or 5 good chances to get 1 goal. Thats what his problem was at ICT when he played he onle ever got a max of 1 or 2 attempts. That is not enough for him. Only in the last few games of this season have we started to create lots of chances so it was never going to work out for him here.

It might not work out for him at County either but from what I have heard they do create a bucket load of chances but they dont have anybody who is willing to stand up and take one even if he misses 4 clears chances. Barrowman will do that so dont be too surprised to see him score a few goals but no matter how many goals he does score for County we cannot blame Butcher for letting him go because he would never have scored reguarly for us for the reason I gave above.

Thats the difference with Rooney. He will run after loose balls (not very quickly) he will try and hold the ball up as well. Barrowman was not as good as Rooney at those things. On top of that Rooney is the 2nd top goalscorer in the Division. When we only play 1 out and out striker it is obvious that Rooney is the man to start. He is a better player for our style of play

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

met a steward with "immovable object" written in her eyes.

I bumped into the same woman in Fannies after the match and she was in feckin tears - almost inconsolable - I had to tell her that I was actually 53 and married and unavaialble. I have to admit that I was strangely attracted as she came across like a butch version of Feb 8th.

As fer the game - we gave as good as we got for the most - the singing in the second half was a reflection of the players as when we went 3-0 down it felt that some were disinterested - bar Foran Rooney and Hayes.

BEST AWAY DAY DEFEAT EVER

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Have to laugh at some people, Lionel has a bad game and all of a sudden Golabek is Maldini and Roberto Carlos all rolled into one! Golabek has look rather mediocre in every game (bar County away) I've seen him play him in. Hopefully a new competent left back can be signed at some point, or the very promising Graeme Shinnie can step out to the plate.

Have to agree with you there, Renegade. I wasn't there, so don't know first hand how bad (or otherwise) Lionel was yesterday. But most people are very quick to condemn him, indeed seem to get great delight in slagging him off at the least opportunity. I've seen Golabek live on at least four occasions this season and he has ranged from OK down to absolutely shocking (Cup final in Perth for example). He is not the answer. So, I'd agree in blooding Shinnie for the rest of the season, now that our promotion chances are nil minus.

Lionel was poor against Partick but the only word for him yesterday was "abysmal" - a total feckin embarrasment. If you note I have kept quiet fer many games BUT : 80-90% of the time he looks a player - much better in the SFL than the SPL fer obvious reasons - BUT : He makes 2-3 glaring errors in MOST games - many of which are seized on by the opposition. He does have several positives - pace, recovery, the occasioanl skill, loyalty and committment BUT : The bottom line is that he is a BOMBSCARE - and he aint going to be any different. That is the SECOND season that he has cost us a cup progression.

Plus Granty plays soooo much poorer when he has to "babysit" Lionel.

[caleyblue]

good point if we have to look after other players how can we play our own game time tb seen sence and dropped loionel for his own good .pace alone wont help us win the title

[+DoofersDad]

If thats the case then whats Barrowmans strikerate? surely worse than Rooneys

Quite what you're arguing here is beyond me.

BARROWMAN NEVER GOT CHANCES!!!!

What part of that is difficult to comprehend?!

All of it, to be honest.

What do you mean by the fact that he never never got chances? If you mean he never got in the team, then clearly you are wrong - he played 41 matches. That's 41 chances. If you mean he didn't have any scoring opportunities then just whose fault do you think that was? Strikers have to be in the right pace at the right time, they have to react quickly to where the ball is going, they have to work to make the space for a shot and then they have to be incisive in deciding when to shoot. If Barrowman never got chances to shoot then perhaps its because he wasn't very good at these basic strikers skills.

Rooney is far from the finished article but he creates openings by his awareness and hard work. Take yesterday as an example. Early in the first half he had a shot blocked by the keeper after muscling his way past 2 defenders who should have dealt with the threat comfortably. In the same situation Barrowman would simply have given up and there would not even have been a sniff of a chance.

How about focussing your comments on players who are still here. I agree with you that Shinnie should be given a chance.

[12th Man]

If Lional was poor, did killy put 2 men on him when he had the ball, he didnt like that when County did it to him as he didnt have the time and the space to clear the ball.

When Rosco was in that position I noticed that Russel was providing a certain amount of cover and could back track and help out