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How all the unionists on here can defend the union when all its might and dirty tricks are being employed to smear our First Minister and to keep us in our place is beyond me.

 

A claim has ben made that Ms Sturgeon would prefer a Tory win, which has been denied by Ms Sturgeon. That claim could only constitute a "smear" if it had been deliberately and maliciously made in the knowledge that it is incorrect.

However there is no proof one way or the other - unless, of course, dougiedanger has some marvellous inside track which he exclusively shares with Nicola Sturgeon.

What can be said with certainty is that the SNP has made the fact of a Tory government since 2010 the cornerstone of its campaigning strategy. This is the way Nationalist parties tend to operate - they identify a group or an individual, or both, as an object of resentment and hate, and rally support based on the dislike which it has created.

The SNP's hardy annual here used to be The English but that latterly started losing them votes so they switched to the nearest available equivalent, the Tories.

This kind of technique tends to work best among (let me choose my euphemism carefully) the less politically literate among the electorate and the SNP has benefited hugely from their Tory Bogeyman tactics in this neck of the woods. Given the past success of this strategy, and given also that a new Tory government may also hold an EU Referendum which might give the SNP the opportunity to start shouting for a second one here, I would suggest that the SNP has far more to gain from a Tory government than from a Labour one.

Now I'm not saying that this is proof one way or another of the original claim since it is merely circumstantial evidence, albeit fairly compelling.

However there is one thing that you can be sure of. In deciding which govenment it prefers from May 7th, one consideration which the SNP will definitely not make is the good of the electorate. The SNP's choice will be based solely on the only policy it has ever had.

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Again the reports are inaccurate. Two well known individuals who have made a habit of following Jim Murphy and rudely and very vocally disrupting his meetings who were until yesterday among the 114,00

Achtung! I actually find it hilarious listening to to the British nationalists continually bleating about the referendum, which they won FFS, and how it's all the SNP are interested in. It goes s

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Excuse me if I don't exactly feel sorry for Ms Sturgeon over the leaked memo when the person who benefits most from it is Ms Sturgeon herself.  As for Sturgeon being smeared by the might of the unionists!  Get real!  it is Milliband who is being smeared from what the memo alleges she has said and he fell straight into the trap by attacking her rather than simply dismissing it as tittle tattle.  After all, since when has Red Ed  believed everything that's published in the Telegraph!  Meanwhile, Sturgeon can complain about dirty tricks and deny the allegations when we all know that even if it was not what she said, it is what she believes.  And if asked whether she would rather have a Tory Government than a Labour one she has enough nouce about her to give a more statesmanlike response and say that the SNP will work with whatever Government the electorate chooses.  Similarly she will not be drawn into comments on Milliband's suitability for PM and will again say that is for the electorate to decide.

 

The fall out from the affair certainly proves that what she is alleged to have said about Milliband not being Prime Ministerial material is true.  It also provides her with the opportunity to repeat the plea to Milliband to lock Cameron out of Downing street - a statement that is presumably meant to give the lie to the other part of the alleged French confession.  It also allows her to play the sympathy card.  It's a win, win situation for her.

 

But as with other things, there is a world of difference between Sturgeon's words and her actions.  The only way to lock Cameron out of Downing street is to have a Labour Government and the best way of securing that would be not to stand in seats where Labour MPs could be elected.  That was never going to happen and it's not going to happen now even though SNP success makes a Tory Government more likely. The truth is, as we all now, the SNP would rather have Cameron in Downing street so that they can oppose the UK Government rather than being pressured into some kind of support for a Labour led UK Government.

 

As for little boxes, I think you will find it is the Scottish Nuts who want to retreat to their own little box rather than cooperate and share with others in a bigger box.

 

It is also amusing to hear the oft quoted nonsense about there being little difference between Labour and the Tories.  It seems to be a bit of a theme with the Nationalists be they SNP or UKIP

Jim??? Jim Murphy??? is that you? Im pretty sure it is? #ScratchedRecord

 

What?  Is Jim Murphy also saying that Ed Milliband is not Prime Ministerial Material? :amazed:

 

But just as an aside, why are we hearing so much from Nicola Sturgeon in anycase?  She's not even a candidate in this election.  Do the SNP not have anyone who actually is a candidate who is capable of speaking to the media?  For instance, why can't we hear a bit more from Angus Robertson who, after all, is actually the leader of the SNP Parliamentary Party at Westminster.  To be fair, he is also quite good!

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Jim and Ed are hardly best mates. Jim possibly thinks that Ed isn't prime minister material. But then what do I know? I can't read minds like some folk on here.

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For instance, why can't we hear a bit more from Angus Robertson who, after all, is actually the leader of the SNP Parliamentary Party at Westminster. 

Angus Robertson?

Are you sure about that DD?

I was sure it was Alex Salmond.

Just based on the various Westminster deals he's been saying he'd be prepared to do with people, like.....

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It's great that the young people are waking up to the workings of the Westminster government and that the numbers of compliant, subservient unionists is dwindling by the day. 

 

What a great future we have to look forward to, a confident, young but ancient nation engaged with the wider world, and free finally from those who would limit and constrain us. :smile:

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Charles outlines clearly why having a Tory Government suits the SNP.  Allow me to outline why it would not suit them to have Labour in power.  Miliband has been pressured to confirming that there will be no coalition with the SNP so at least the SNP will not have the offer of one to juggle with.  But if Cameron can't form a Government then the SNP will still have to choose between 2 courses of action in response to Miliband trying to form a Government.   

 

First option is to give broad support on most issues in order to keep Labour in power and, as Sturgeon puts it, lock the Tories out of Downing street.  This should work as long as Labour don't push the replacement of Trident which most Labour supporters don't want in any case.  The danger for the SNP in this is that Scotland might do rather well out of such an arrangement.  Labour desperately needs voter support in Scotland and by giving a good deal to Scotland's working class Labour will win back a lot of the voters who turned to the SNP in the referendum.

 

The second option is to offer issue by issue support but not actually deliver it.  This would likely end with Miliband losing a vote of confidence thereby forcing a 2nd election.  That is a dangerous strategy because whilst it may deliver the preferred Tory Government, voters who actually want what is best for Scotland will not take kindly to the SNP sabotaging an opportunity to get a good deal for Scotland and voters might again return to supporting Labour.  It would bring back echoes of the SNP's shameful  refusal to support Callaghan in a vote of no-confidence in 1979 with the result that Thatcher swept to power instead.

 

It's all very well to state glibly that you don't care whether Labour or the Tories get in, but the fact of the matter is that the outcome of the election will have a major bearing on the likelihood of independence in the foreseeable future.  With a Tory Government there will likely be an end to the favourable funding for Scotland under the Barnett formula, rising discontent and support for independence in Scotland.  Frankly I doubt the Tories would be too bothered if the next Scottish Government called for a second referendum and Scotland became independent.  Let's face it, the English Tories didn't exactly do much to support the Better Together campaign in the referendum.  Indepence for Scotland would mean the Tories would have an absolute majority in the the rUK for some years.

 

The scenario with a labour Government would be very different.  For the reasons stated above labour are desparate to retain the union would exploit the opportunity to win back support in Scotland.  This may well result in the SNP not having enough support in the next Scottish parliament to request a referendum and not winning it even if there was one.

 

Sturgeon can keep repeating that she wants David Cameron locked out of Downing street but surely there is nobody left who actually believes her?

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For instance, why can't we hear a bit more from Angus Robertson who, after all, is actually the leader of the SNP Parliamentary Party at Westminster. 

Angus Robertson?

Are you sure about that DD?

I was sure it was Alex Salmond.

Just based on the various Westminster deals he's been saying he'd be prepared to do with people, like.....

 

Yes, I'm sure.  Salmond hasn't been an MP since 2010.  One gets the impression that he is simply assuming that he will be elected in May and that when he does, his annointment as Parliamentary leader will be a mere formality - such is the arrogance of the man.

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For instance, why can't we hear a bit more from Angus Robertson who, after all, is actually the leader of the SNP Parliamentary Party at Westminster. 

Angus Robertson?

Are you sure about that DD?

I was sure it was Alex Salmond.

Just based on the various Westminster deals he's been saying he'd be prepared to do with people, like.....

 

Yes, I'm sure.  Salmond hasn't been an MP since 2010.  One gets the impression that he is simply assuming that he will be elected in May and that when he does, his annointment as Parliamentary leader will be a mere formality - such is the arrogance of the man.

 

My point precisely DD. The last time I looked, Nicola Sturgeon was leader of the SNP and Angus Robertson, until last week's dissolution of Parliament, was its leader at Westminster.

However over the last several weeks we have received one pronouncement after another from this failed former leader as to what the he will and won't do post election in the event of a hung parliament.

I'm sure much of this is about publicising the much ridiculed "Mein Banff" but the man's ego is simply of monstrous proportions.

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One never fails to enjoy the extraordinary lack of irony tangled up in the web of state spun bullshit which straddles our airwaves and graces our TV and phone screens each day. Apparently the way the nationalists operate is that "they identify a group, or an individual, or both, as an object of resentment and hate, and rally support based on the dislike it has created".... don't choke on your incredulity there SNP voters, we have a unionist here (someone who would have supported Better Together, one of the most negative campaigns in political history) espousing about a perceived moral deficit in the SNPs approach to politics. Should we pull him out of his bunker of ignorance and dust off the poor wee lambs dirt of naivety?? 

 

What the SNP are, are a political party which has to operate against a panoply of parties that blur in to one when thinking about the media mechanics of these isles. With the arrival of 'The National' newspaper (conveniently after the referendum) the SNPs beliefs are still only wholly ratified by one daily paper (and the Heralds Sunday edition). Have a look at the "memo-gate" debacle and you will see the ridiculous lack of balance here, NUMEROUS UK wide editions splashing leader stories about a story.... which isn't even a story. What it is, is a way of trying to temper the enormous popularity of the SNP and in particular, it's leader who had a winning performance in the Leaders Debate. Dirty tricks is what you have to resort to when your policies and the democratic tools at your disposal are failing dramatically. We saw it during the referendum with the email leak to RBS from a civil servant and we are seeing it again with Sturgeon as the target. The SNP may have the complete power and collusion of the British state and its media machine behind them, but they have the support of the majority of Scottish people who are FAR too tired of the Conservatives and 'The Conservatives-lite' to fall for their insipid, brazen and predictable bouts of Machiavellianism. To save Scottish Labour, the party would have had to head towards the left, but of course it couldn't do that, with the Tories having to pander to middle England, Labour in Westminster had to do the same, and who tells Scottish Labour what to do?? London, remember :) So what they did was put Jim Murphy in charge, a man who would cite the same institutions and think tanks of Liam Fox as his friends and a man who is a complete and utter anathema to the electorate.

 

So sit back and enjoy this SNP people. You can nearly hear the drip of the tears of irrelevance as the views of the unionists are bandied about here. Let them do that tired and painfully unfunny tactic at using Nazi associations with the SNP, like 1930s German politics has anything to do with 2015 Scotland? The referendum showed that those despicable fascist organisations came out in support of the Union...... See, there's that irony again :) Let them batter away at pointless non-issues like this recent Sturgeon episode, the real important stuff is who wins the most seats, and with every attack on an already very popular leader, the votes for what her party represents will continue to rise like it's enormous membership. Scotland, come May 8th, will be going a rather lovely shade of yellow and remember, for every Unionist that cries foul about the SNP having a big say in Westminster, their NO vote has allowed them to be there for years to come :)    

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Excuse me if I don't exactly feel sorry for Ms Sturgeon over the leaked memo when the person who benefits most from it is Ms Sturgeon herself.  As for Sturgeon being smeared by the might of the unionists!  Get real!  it is Milliband who is being smeared from what the memo alleges she has said and he fell straight into the trap by attacking her rather than simply dismissing it as tittle tattle.  After all, since when has Red Ed  believed everything that's published in the Telegraph!  Meanwhile, Sturgeon can complain about dirty tricks and deny the allegations when we all know that even if it was not what she said, it is what she believes.  And if asked whether she would rather have a Tory Government than a Labour one she has enough nouce about her to give a more statesmanlike response and say that the SNP will work with whatever Government the electorate chooses.  Similarly she will not be drawn into comments on Milliband's suitability for PM and will again say that is for the electorate to decide.

 

The fall out from the affair certainly proves that what she is alleged to have said about Milliband not being Prime Ministerial material is true.  It also provides her with the opportunity to repeat the plea to Milliband to lock Cameron out of Downing street - a statement that is presumably meant to give the lie to the other part of the alleged French confession.  It also allows her to play the sympathy card.  It's a win, win situation for her.

 

But as with other things, there is a world of difference between Sturgeon's words and her actions.  The only way to lock Cameron out of Downing street is to have a Labour Government and the best way of securing that would be not to stand in seats where Labour MPs could be elected.  That was never going to happen and it's not going to happen now even though SNP success makes a Tory Government more likely. The truth is, as we all now, the SNP would rather have Cameron in Downing street so that they can oppose the UK Government rather than being pressured into some kind of support for a Labour led UK Government.

 

As for little boxes, I think you will find it is the Scottish Nuts who want to retreat to their own little box rather than cooperate and share with others in a bigger box.

 

It is also amusing to hear the oft quoted nonsense about there being little difference between Labour and the Tories.  It seems to be a bit of a theme with the Nationalists be they SNP or UKIP

Jim??? Jim Murphy??? is that you? Im pretty sure it is? #ScratchedRecord

 

What?  Is Jim Murphy also saying that Ed Milliband is not Prime Ministerial Material? :amazed:

 

But just as an aside, why are we hearing so much from Nicola Sturgeon in anycase?  She's not even a candidate in this election.  Do the SNP not have anyone who actually is a candidate who is capable of speaking to the media?  For instance, why can't we hear a bit more from Angus Robertson who, after all, is actually the leader of the SNP Parliamentary Party at Westminster.  To be fair, he is also quite good!

 

Best ask him that...i just find it interesting that you pretty much quote the point he has been making over and over and over and over for months on end, rather than focus on what his party are going to do for the people, 

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One never fails ................................. for years to come :)    

Oh well, despite Dingwall's resident Nationalist Nutter having this morning reached "200 days and still no new powers" with his/her daily window sign update, it still seems that these chaps from "the 44.7" are still a tad prickly about 18.9.14. and remain up to the oxters in classic nationalistic "stabbed in the back" conspiracy theories.

I wonder if Oddquine's "Like" was on the basis of the post's ongoing cultivation of resentment and grievance, or its verbosity... or both.

Look folks... you've had the Referendum you were so desperate to hold and most of us have returned to things in life which really matter, so it would be good to focus instead on the big ticket items like Foreign Policy, Defence, Immigration and the Economy which is what May 7th is intended to sort out.

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most of us have returned to things in life which really matter, so it would be good to focus instead on the big ticket items like Foreign Policy, Defence, Immigration and the Economy which is what May 7th is intended to sort out.

 

If you could pass this information on to the foreign office, Whitehall and the London media at large please Mr Bannerman, then we will not have to saturate the GE debate with irrelevant, cack-handed smear campaigns and instead talk about such things

 

The reason these topics are not being discussed is because these happen to be the areas where the Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems are losing to the SNP, hence the SNPs massive lead in the polls

 

It seems these chaps who ensured we remain as part of the UK don't like the steady erosion of the trusty two party dominance. Using terms like "nutter" indicates that certain people still fall in to the radar range of your venom, it would be good if you could focus on figuring out how in former solid Labour constituencies, which are now lost to the SNP, they can win that ideological battle, instead of worrying about random people who are free to believe what they wish

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 to saturate the GE debate with irrelevant, cack-handed smear campaigns and instead talk about such things

 

 

 former solid Labour constituencies, which are now lost to the SNP,

 

By pure conicidence, I've just been watching a bit of "Carry On Cleo" which has just finished on ITV3 and never fails to remind me of the Nationalists.

 

"Infamy, infamy.... they've all got it infamy!" :lol:

 

As I've explained many times, the Labour Party in Scotland is largely the architect of its own demise. This goes back to the pre-1997 era when the party vacated the Socialist agenda to make themselves electable and hence get rid of the Tories, of whom we had had 16 years thanks directly to the SNP in 1979.

However some longstanding electoral habits die hard and it took a further decade of Labour complacency plus the loss and non-relacement of credible Scottish Labour politicians like Donald Dewar and John Smith for many traditional Labour voters go get  fed up with the party they had supported for generations.

Credit must go to the SNP for spotting this vacuum and moving with indecent speed to become a "Socialist" party in order to occupy the political ground vacated by Labour and eventually claim these votes through vacuous promises.

However these people will eventually realise that they are simply SNP ballot box fodder and that the SNP cares only about one thing in the world.... and that isn't improving the lot of the working  and non-working classes.

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I wouldn't say the surge in support for SNP will decide the outcome so much as the slow, painful demise of the party for the working man. Remember them? The party built from the blood, sweat and blisters of the UK's shipbuilders, steelworkers, miners.....oh wait!! there's none of them left now. And very soon there won't be a Labour party.

And good riddance - they sold out out long ago. There is only one party which represents working Scots and they are set for a landslide despite the nonsense that CB and his unionist chums are coming out with.

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And the old garbage that it was the snp that brought in Thatcher. We'd had the winter of discontent, Labour refused to back devolution which the Scots voted for, prompting Callaghan to call them turkeys voting for Christmas. On top of this the Labour government only had months before they had to call an election they were never going to win anyway.But don't let minor details like that and the fact that the SNP on their own couldn't bring the government down, get in the way of some childish dig at them.

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Smear campaign against Sturgeon?  Pull the other one!  The person who this episode smears is Miliband and the person who comes out of it in the best light is Sturgeon.  The SNP couldn't have engineered better publicity if they had set it up themselves!

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Smear campaign against Sturgeon?  Pull the other one!  The person who this episode smears is Miliband and the person who comes out of it in the best light is Sturgeon.  The SNP couldn't have engineered better publicity if they had set it up themselves!

They don't need to all the other parties are doing it for them :crazy:

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Smear campaign against Sturgeon?  Pull the other one!  The person who this episode smears is Miliband and the person who comes out of it in the best light is Sturgeon.  The SNP couldn't have engineered better publicity if they had set it up themselves!

They don't need to all the other parties are doing it for them :crazy:

 

Dead right! There is little doubt that the SNP will come out well on top in Scotland on May 7th, largely because of the complete lack of a credible challenge from any of the other parties.

They talk a load of disingeunous bollox mind you.... but a lot of people see it as more plausible disingenuous bollox than the other parties.

 

It's going to be interesting to see who emerges as SNP Westminster leader after the election. Another term for Angus Robertson who, as someone else said, hasn't done too badly, or Alex Salmond, should the good people of Gordon have the exceedingly bad taste to inflict him on us all?

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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Jim and Ed are hardly best mates. Jim possibly thinks that Ed isn't prime minister material. But then what do I know? I can't read minds like some folk on here.

You may well be right.  Had to laugh during tonight's STV Scottish leaders' debate when Murphy laid into Sturgeon telling her that she might get away with what she'd just said down South but she won't get away with it in Scotland.  It seemed to be a not too subtle dig at the ineffectiveness of Miliband during the 7 up debate the other day.  (7 up - lots of gas but little substance).

 

Is it just me but or do others think that Miliband seems to have been spending far too much time watching Tony Blair videos of how to be Smarmy on prime time TV?  Murphy is far more natural and I have to say I rather liked his more old fashioned shoot from the hip style.

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