Sign in to follow this  
IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER

Autumnal Aspirations

Recommended Posts

Well if you beat a fairly buoyant St Jones Town, fashion a worthy draw at Aberdire and come from behind to grab another well deserved point against the Champions elect the remainder of September and October should hold no fears. Dundee, Sevco, Killie and the Jam Tarts at home and only two away trips to Hamilton and Muvversmell. I would take 13-14 points from that lot. Interesting quote from Foran yesterday was that his main man management task was to keep the players who are not getting a regular game happy. I think that should be a bonus as I cant remember such competition for starting places for many a year and with people on the bench quite capable of fitting in. That of course means that everybody has to maintain a level of performance to ensure that they keep their places whilst the others have to be ready to take their chances. The back five basically now picks itself. There is lots of scope to change things in midfield and hopefully to play teams to fit in with the opposition we are playing against. I feel that pushing Draper forward was a masterstroke as it allows both he and Tansey to play their own games instead of vying against each other. Lets just hope that the last three games are not just lifting ourselves against the better teams and we can show the psyche to dominate some of the "lesser" teams. This is a great opportunity to cement ourselves in the top six and provide early breathing space from the anxieties of a relegation battle. And what a feckin difference from the shocking display in Embra. :cheer01:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last year we seemed to do better against the top six and struggled against the weaker teams.  I think this was due to the fact that Hughes' stultifying football philosophy meant that the weaker teams would let us have the ball, make it difficult for us to pass the ball through them and the squeeze us and look to capitalise on mistakes when they came.  The better teams would play a more open game which gave us opportunities for counter attacking and a bit more time on the ball.

Rather than sit off the packed defences of the weaker teams, this year we will be constantly taking them on; pulling them wide, trying to slice through them and shooting on sight rather than patiently waiting for an opportunity to present itself.  I agree with IHE that there is a much better balance in the squad, we have competition for places and options to vary the play according to the situation.  I think we should do better against the poorer sides this season and we should be seeing some really exciting games.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, finmack said:

Bigger crowds to support our team

Agree on that one finmack!  Poor crowd yesterday after a great performance against the champions the previous week, after all the excuses of boring football under John Hughes you can't say that now.  Even a few hundred more would be a start.

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks as if the folks will come out to the big matches, such as the Celtic game, but are reluctant to spend the money for the "lesser" matches week in week out?

With the team now performing admirably what other reason can there be for not showing up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah yesterdays crowd was a real shame especially after the impressive performances of late. Is it all down to cost? I don't think so. The appeal of these games has worn off and there is always something else that a lot of would be attendees would rather be doing than going to the ground to watch a game (that's their prerogative of course). Look at the Celtic game the other week. The North Stand didn't seem any busier than usual really. I think for a lot of folk in Inverness they simply don't have the disposable income after paying for things like rent, mortgages etc to be able to afford to go to every game. Wages can't be that high in the city given the main employers. Really hope we see crowds coming back. The players certainly deserve more folk to be coming along to see them but sadly going to see ICT isn't a priority for most of the city as the club, for whatever reason, just don't have a strong place in their hearts. Inverness just isn't a football place. it's not like say Aberdeen or Edinburgh where you know there's a game on when Aberdeen or Hearts or Hibs play. If you were in Inverness when we play at home you'd barely know there was a game on. Sadly I just don't see it ever changing.

Edited by RiG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If general revenue is not high, whereas wages are higher than the club would hope, then the financial situation within the club can't be balanced. And so reducing prices may be a stiff challenge that the prudent Board may be very reluctant to implement but what other course is available to them. All things considered it does seem as if the club in general is trying very hard to promote the club by various means already, so....?

Personally, I think that the club has few options other than to reduce prices for a specific period of at least 6 weeks, which will hopefully increase the crowd numbers thus exposing new fans to seeing how interesting the product on the park is. Otherwise, if they don't come to games, how will they ever become dedicated fans? And so, as the rule of business thumb is in similar situations more often than not, reduce prices an/or give incentives to get them in the door otherwise they may not become regular clients.

From my pensioners' point of view and converting pounds into Canadian dollars, at this point I could not afford to attend every week because the cost of living is very high as it seems to be in Scotland.. House prices now in Vancouver are  utterly ridiculous, groceries going higher and higher every week and so on. Money also has to be set aside monthly to cover such items as insurance for two cars, home insurance again up this year and now $600 extra per year for earthquake insurance which is separate from the home payment with us living in the Pacific North West where the "BIG ONE" is expected any day, and very high property taxes also have to be set aside on a monthly basis. Not to mention this does not cover future expense requirements such as a holiday or roof renewals and  general repairs etc.

So I sincerely believe it's a money issue as much as anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Attendences dropping below 3,000 is a real shame and hopefully they'll pick up. It certainly won't be helping the financial side of things. 

I was procrastinating the other day and read a report from a game in 2007 were we beat Dunfermline at home to confirm their relegation (interestingly that De Vries lad who plays for Celtic was in goals and had a shocker... I digress). The attendance for the game was between 6-7,000. I'm not sure if that's a one off but how can our attendences have dropped so much from then until now, especially seeing as we're a far better side than we were. My guess is part of the answer is that the novelty of being in the SPL has worn off, amongst other factors. 

Here's the report if anyone's interested: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/6645249.stm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RiG said:

Yeah yesterdays crowd was a real shame especially after the impressive performances of late. Is it all down to cost? I don't think so. The appeal of these games has worn off and there is always something else that a lot of would be attendees would rather be doing than going to the ground to watch a game (that's their prerogative of course). Look at the Celtic game the other week. The North Stand didn't seem any busier than usual really. I think for a lot of folk in Inverness they simply don't have the disposable income after paying for things like rent, mortgages etc to be able to afford to go to every game. Wages can't be that high in the city given the main employers. Really hope we see crowds coming back. The players certainly deserve more folk to be coming along to see them but sadly going to see ICT isn't a priority for most of the city as the club, for whatever reason, just don't have a strong place in their hearts. Inverness just isn't a football place. it's not like say Aberdeen or Edinburgh where you know there's a game on when Aberdeen or Hearts or Hibs play. If you were in Inverness when we play at home you'd barely know there was a game on. Sadly I just don't see it ever changing.

That is nonsense, the town supported 3-4 clubs for over a hundred years, it is just that, for various reasons, the new club has never managed to energize people sufficiently, indeed it attracts hostility and indifference as much as enthusiasm and dedication.

  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With under 12s going free for any game in any stand, it certainly is a big carrot to dangle in front of fans for a long return investment and it's up to the support to bring along the kids/ grandkids/ relations/ neighbours FOC.

That's a long term investment, certainly nothing wrong with looking after the ageing support too in the interim, after all they seem to be the cash rich ones these days especially with the easing of the private pension rules and you can't really fault what's going on, on the pitch.

Edited by 12th Man
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm genuinely curious about what RiG means about people knowing there's a game on if it's in Aberdeen or Edinburgh but not in Inverness? DD is correct in saying that Inverness had 3-4 clubs for over 100 years, and he is also probably right in saying that the "new" club needs to energise people more. However the comparison between the 100+ years in the Highland League and what has transpired since isn't a completely valid one for two reasons.

Firstly, habits have changed in a world which has gone from watching football in a ground being one of a very limited number of leisure activities to it having a huge number of counter attractions, not the least of which is watching football on a TV. Then there's football's economics of the madhouse where players are paid way above their realistic market value which forces ticket prices way up which further contributes to these changes in habit. At ICT you can add a cold, not very accessible stadium (which was still the best site on offer at the time) as a further contributor to the current Perfect Storm scenario.

Then secondly there's the fact that, compared with the last days of Thistle and Caley in the Highland League, around five times as many people come to the Caledonian Stadium than collectively attended Kingsmills and Telford Street. Highland League revisionists with rose coloured spectacles will of course tell you that these grounds used to be regularly stowed out but the reality is that, by the early 90s, this most certainly wasn't the case. I would therefore suggest that Inverness is possibly MORE of a football place now than it previously was, certainly during its latter, mundane Highland League days. Look also at Grant Street now, which is lucky to get 200 if that.

I think that one component of the "crowds" issue is that, against all these factors such as TV, ticket prices etc etc, the population and economy of the inner Moray Firth simply isn't big enough to sustain comfortably two Premiership clubs and the kind of crowds you would realistically need to make them good going concerns. And I don't actually see a solution to this because there is NO WAY that any combination of forces between ICT and Ross County is ever going to take place. However this also is a problem right across Scottish football. For instance they are mob handed in the Angus area with Forfar, Brechin, Montrose, Arbroath etc. Meanwhile Dundee, even with the Thompson millions on one side, clearly struggles to sustain two Premiership clubs and indeed has barely done so for the last decade. But again, that's not very likely to change as Scottish demographics continueto be unable to support the number of clubs competing for resources - especially when two of them, artificially inflated by West Central Scotland's religious, political and social problems, suck in such a disproportionate slice of these said resources.

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bannerman surreptitiously calls for a ICT and Tinkerville merger. Presumably the vote will be rigged at the Munlochy Community Centre. :laugh:

I would say that one reason that it never looks like a game is on in Inverness is the placement of the ground for the away support. Many Supporters buses stop en route to Sneck (Aviemore) and then motor directly to the ground. Car drivers are probably of the same ilk. The traditional Rail support are the only ones seen down town.

Lets face it though - after the glory season we significantly disappointed last season. It is early doors and the only way to attract more attenders is by winning and entertaining at the same time. For us that is a massive task, But as I attempted to emphasise in the opening post we really do look to have the potential with the current squad. Teams are taking points off each other and put together a wee winning streak and you get attention and you get the "cant be bothered" stay away fans coming back. I was looking for 13-14. Well that is three in the bag and the signs are that we could realistically gain that cache of points if not more.

And I may as well bite on the pre-merger stuff. In the days of the 70's there were mini-crowds when entertaining the likes of Rothes, Lossiemouth etc. but there were crowds well in excess of the TCS average for many games. Those were the days when Caley and Thistle were the "wee teams" of the predominant Old Firm support. On many match days they turned out to watch their local team. It is not all about a small number of diehards. If your parents and your close family have an original affiliation to a "big" team from that area you will undoubtedly be influenced and the merger will be derided and mocked.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ever informative poster HibeeJibee on P & B has posted the average crowds for ICT over the seasons (direct C n P):

1994-95 ... 1,276 ... (tier 4)
1995-96 ... 1,579 ... (tier 4)
1996-97 ... 2,495 ... (tier 4 - promoted)
1997-98 ... 1,762 ... (tier 3)
1998-99 ... 2,168 ... (tier 3 - promoted)
1999-00 ... 2,282 ... (tier 2)
2000-01 ... 2,133 ... (tier 2)
2001-02 ... 2,046 ... (tier 2)
2002-03 ... 2,182 ... (tier 2)
2003-04 ... 2,375 ... (tier 2 - promoted)
2004-05 ... 4,067
2005-06 ... 5,061
2006-07 ... 4,879
2007-08 ... 4,753
2008-09 ... 4,457 ... (relegated)
2009-10 ... 3,509 ... (tier 2 - promoted)
2010-11 ... 4,526
2011-12 ... 4,023
2012-13 ... 4,038
2013-14 ... 3,558
2014-15 ... 3,733
2015-16 ... 3,754
2016-17 ... 3,970 so far

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, lightwelter said:

Attendences dropping below 3,000 is a real shame and hopefully they'll pick up. It certainly won't be helping the financial side of things. 

I was procrastinating the other day and read a report from a game in 2007 were we beat Dunfermline at home to confirm their relegation (interestingly that De Vries lad who plays for Celtic was in goals and had a shocker... I digress). The attendance for the game was between 6-7,000. I'm not sure if that's a one off but how can our attendences have dropped so much from then until now, especially seeing as we're a far better side than we were. My guess is part of the answer is that the novelty of being in the SPL has worn off, amongst other factors. 

Here's the report if anyone's interested: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/6645249.stm

That Dunfermline game was a highly organised concerted effort by Dunfermline to get a big support behind their team in the fight against the drop. The crowd was 6464 and the South stand was chocka.

In recent years folks disposable finances have taken a bit hit and the spare money just isnt there for many. Personally I still support the club with player sponsorship but I have to be very selective as to what home games I attend. Train fares continue to rise as do costs of food and beverage for a day out + entry cost. Three or four years ago I'd think nothing of blowing £100 - £150 on a day trip to Sneck for a match. Sometimes I'd add cost of overnight stay if midweek game. Now circummstances have changed I have to be more frugal.

Many folk are in similar financial positions and are not following their teams to away games. My guesstimate from TV was that maybe 150 - 200 Dundee fans travelled on saturday whereas in the past that would have been 400-500 at least. The cost of the day out has gone up but wages have stayed stagnant so travelling fans are choosing to stay at home.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, lightwelter said:

Attendences dropping below 3,000 is a real shame and hopefully they'll pick up. It certainly won't be helping the financial side of things. 

I was procrastinating the other day and read a report from a game in 2007 were we beat Dunfermline at home to confirm their relegation (interestingly that De Vries lad who plays for Celtic was in goals and had a shocker... I digress). The attendance for the game was between 6-7,000. I'm not sure if that's a one off but how can our attendences have dropped so much from then until now, especially seeing as we're a far better side than we were. My guess is part of the answer is that the novelty of being in the SPL has worn off, amongst other factors. 

Here's the report if anyone's interested: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/6645249.stm

The crowd for that game was higher than usual given the significance of it. Crowds will often spike when there is more at stake like our final game of the season against Falkirk when about 7,000 folk came along. The earlier league game attracted just over 3,000. I remember we had a large crowd for a more run of the mill game against Hibs over the Christmas period one season (possibly 05-06) which was quite unusual. Sadly, as you say, the novelty has long worn off for a lot of folk. We used to get about 4,000 - 4,500 against Killie now if we get over 3,000 we're probably doing well.

10 hours ago, dougiedanger said:

That is nonsense, the town supported 3-4 clubs for over a hundred years, it is just that, for various reasons, the new club has never managed to energize people sufficiently, indeed it attracts hostility and indifference as much as enthusiasm and dedication.

The days of Inverness having 3 - 4 football clubs is mostly before my time so I can only really base my experience on ICT but when Saturday comes along the place just doesn't feel like there is a football match on that day. I'm not expecting banners and scarves flying all over the place like in the lead up to the Scottish Cup Final but whenever I'm walking around Inverness on a home match day there seems to be a distinct lack of 'presence' of any ICT fans, strips, scarves etc. In places like Aberdeen and Edinburgh you almost always see folk out and about on game days with club colours. Just doesn't seem to be the same in Inverness. Maybe it's an age thing with the club I don't know.

You could well be on to something in saying that the club just doesn't energise folk sufficiently. Certainly seems that way but I'm not too sure what else they can do. Cutting ticket prices has been discussed before but halving the prices won't necessarily lead to a doubling of crowds to make it worth it. Does seem that we have lost a good number of fans over the years looking at those average crowd figures.

Edited by RiG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The drop off in average crowd figures has more to do with a reduction in the number of visiting fans than anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The absence of The Rangers, Hibs and Hearts from the top flight will also have affected our average gates.  Not just because they are clubs who always bring a good following, but because they attract more home support to the game than the likes of Hamilton and Kilmarnock do.  With The Rangers having made it to the top division this will probably result in our average home gates being up.this season.

I'm not sure that the state of folk's disposable incomes is too much of a factor though.  Clearly for some individuals it will be, but in general spending has remained very buoyant, and if the continued growth in places to eat and drink in Inverness is anything to go by, a lot of people have enough cash to go and watch a game of footy once in a while.  It's just that they choose not to.

Even on a like for like basis I accept CaleyD's point that there is a drop in away support (most notably from OTB) to some extent.  There are also other factors for individual games such as weather, significance of the game, any promotions etc. What is difficult is to know how the various different factors affect the gates and therefore to judge any specific trend.  But I do think there is little doubt that the level of home support has been dropping over the years.

It remains to be seen if the new regime will produce a noticeable increase in gates.  On the back of losing our first 3 games, the game against St J attracted about 750 fewer fans than the corresponding game last season.  The crowd for the Celtic game was 100 up on last year whilst Saturday's game was very slightly down on the corresponding game last year, although, in line with Don's comments, the Dundee away support seemed to be much less than I would have expected.  Unfortunately, the club appears to be unwilling to release figures for numbers coming through the away turnstiles.

But I genuinely do think that the way we are playing at the moment will bring people through the gates.There are large numbers of people who attend just a small number of games a year and to be honest, the way we played in the last 2 years will not have encouraged them to come back.  Things are different now,  We have had 4 home games and they have all been open, exciting games.  I know we lost to County first up but despite that, I have to admit to actually quite enjoying the game!  There has been lots of good football in all the games and it is like chalk and cheese compared to last year.  We need to get the message across to others that there is entertaining football on offer at TCS.  We may not win anything and we may not achieve top six but it's going to be fun and it's going to be exciting.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

The absence of The Rangers, Hibs and Hearts from the top flight will also have affected our average gates.  Not just because they are clubs who always bring a good following, but because they attract more home support to the game than the likes of Hamilton and Kilmarnock do.  With The Rangers having made it to the top division this will probably result in our average home gates being up.this season.

I'm not sure that the state of folk's disposable incomes is too much of a factor though.  Clearly for some individuals it will be, but in general spending has remained very buoyant, and if the continued growth in places to eat and drink in Inverness is anything to go by, a lot of people have enough cash to go and watch a game of footy once in a while.  It's just that they choose not to.

Even on a like for like basis I accept CaleyD's point that there is a drop in away support (most notably from OTB) to some extent.  There are also other factors for individual games such as weather, significance of the game, any promotions etc. What is difficult is to know how the various different factors affect the gates and therefore to judge any specific trend.  But I do think there is little doubt that the level of home support has been dropping over the years.

It remains to be seen if the new regime will produce a noticeable increase in gates.  On the back of losing our first 3 games, the game against St J attracted about 750 fewer fans than the corresponding game last season.  The crowd for the Celtic game was 100 up on last year whilst Saturday's game was very slightly down on the corresponding game last year, although, in line with Don's comments, the Dundee away support seemed to be much less than I would have expected.  Unfortunately, the club appears to be unwilling to release figures for numbers coming through the away turnstiles.

But I genuinely do think that the way we are playing at the moment will bring people through the gates.There are large numbers of people who attend just a small number of games a year and to be honest, the way we played in the last 2 years will not have encouraged them to come back.  Things are different now,  We have had 4 home games and they have all been open, exciting games.  I know we lost to County first up but despite that, I have to admit to actually quite enjoying the game!  There has been lots of good football in all the games and it is like chalk and cheese compared to last year.  We need to get the message across to others that there is entertaining football on offer at TCS.  We may not win anything and we may not achieve top six but it's going to be fun and it's going to be exciting.

 

Yes DD, I can afford to make the trip 'once in a while'. Just not every other week as I used to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, CaleyD said:

The drop off in average crowd figures has more to do with a reduction in the number of visiting fans than anything else.

Don, why don't we announce the away support like they do at Partick, Aberdeen etc? It would certainly shut up some people on P&B who like nothing more than a good crowdw**k.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Alex MacLeod said:

Train fares continue to rise as do costs of food and beverage for a day out + entry cost. Three or four years ago I'd think nothing of blowing £100 - £150 on a day trip to Sneck for a match. Sometimes I'd add cost of overnight stay if midweek game. Now circummstances have changed I have to be more frugal.

 

Alex, just a heads up from a fellow jerry * if you haven't heard about the Scotrail Club 50 offer of travel for £1 which you have to use before the end of October. I'm using it to come up for the Rangers game.

*jerryatric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still think a city like Inverness should put out a bigger support on a weekly basis, and at least 3k. How many did we have at the St. Johnstone game when we  first won promotion to the Premier League?. Me thinks 3k of them have gone missing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheMantis said:

Don, why don't we announce the away support like they do at Partick, Aberdeen etc? It would certainly shut up some people on P&B who like nothing more than a good crowdw**k.

If it was up to me I'd ban the announcing of crowd figures altogether. We're the only country I know of that is obsessed by them. As for away crowds....other than for big derby games, they're practically non existent beyond our shores. Fans abroad don't like giving opponents money. Here....we have clubs and fans organisations more intent on finding ways to line the pockets of other clubs than they do their own.

It's all very bizarre.

  • Agree 1
  • Disagree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • FB_caley_thisle_online_970x90.jpg

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.