Dundee @ the Hedge

[RiG]

I'll celebrate Ferguson leaving as much as I did winning the Scottish Cup and the old First Division.

A previous Chairmans decision not to sack a woefully out of his depth manager cost us our place in the Premiership. The current decision to stick with this guy (and even appoint him in the first place) might cost us our club. 

Edited July 28 by RiG

[ymip]

Ferguson is, by the proverbial country mile, THE WORST manager in the club's history. Ostracised MacGregor, Ujdur and Brooks last season, green lighted the departure of Welsh and Carson, brought in a raft of loanee jobbers and persisted with tactics which were doomed to fail. If that wasn't grounds enough to dislike the guy he didn't even have the decency to engage with Dorran, Ridgers, Esson and co when they were dumped.  The outcome of his hapless reign is well documented and the catalyst for the current sh1tshow. 

A narcissistic, nepotistic drain on our resources who has no apparent raport with either his players or the fans. Get him gone.

[CaleyCiuin]

15 minutes ago, ymip said:

Ferguson is, by the proverbial country mile, THE WORST manager in the club's history. Ostracised MacGregor, Ujdur and Brooks last season, green lighted the departure of Welsh and Carson, brought in a raft of loanee jobbers and persisted with tactics which were doomed to fail. If that wasn't grounds enough to dislike the guy he didn't even have the decency to engage with Dorran, Ridgers, Esson and co when they were dumped.  The outcome of his hapless reign is well documented and the catalyst for the current sh1tshow. 

A narcissistic, nepotistic drain on our resources who has no apparent raport with either his players or the fans. Get him gone.

I agree with all you say there. Adding that he also had the audacity to give a contract to his son, who Forfar said was not good enough for them!!!

[+DoofersDad]

I was kicking a ball around with grandchildren yesterday.  I'm 70 and the grandson is 7 and I reckon we both showed more ability than Ferguson junior.  Here's a thought.  Get us both signed up and we could maybe change the club's name to Seventy7 FC?

[+Tree]

2 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

Here's a thought.  Get us both signed up and we could maybe change the club's name to Seventy7 FC?

Worrying close to Sevco

[Eagle4Caley]

23 hours ago, RiG said:

I'll celebrate Ferguson leaving as much as I did winning the Scottish Cup and the old First Division.

A previous Chairmans decision not to sack a woefully out of his depth manager cost us our place in the Premiership. The current decision to stick with this guy (and even appoint him in the first place) might cost us our club. 

Just for the sake of discussion

If we think back a year, there were plenty of fans, who were gunning for Billy Dodds, because of his annoying knack of going on long runs without winning, and I suspect an annoying interview manner. A Cup Final appearance v a failed league campaign was not the season we wanted. I went to Airdrie away late August and he got plenty of abuse. Yet he was capable of galvanising  a team to recover and go on winning runs [usually when he had enough fit players] and but for injuries might have won the play-offs [?] in 2022. Not sure the playing style delighted too many fans ... but in my time probably only Butcher, Hughes [albeit briefly, before tiki-taki] and even briefer, Neil McCann [the best Manager we never had?] have come close to playing the football that kept fans happy. So in the end fans got what they wanted. Dodds out Ferguson in, and the briefest of honeymoon's, before it all went t#ts up

Now we know the true, parlous state of the clubs finances, which must have been a factor in recruitment, I wonder if given the option fans would turn back the clock a year and decide to back Dodds? A tricky call given the run he was on when he got sacked

[RiG]

51 minutes ago, Eagle4Caley said:

Just for the sake of discussion

If we think back a year, there were plenty of fans, who were gunning for Billy Dodds, because of his annoying knack of going on long runs without winning, and I suspect an annoying interview manner. A Cup Final appearance v a failed league campaign was not the season we wanted. I went to Airdrie away late August and he got plenty of abuse. Yet he was capable of galvanising  a team to recover and go on winning runs [usually when he had enough fit players] and but for injuries might have won the play-offs [?] in 2022. Not sure the playing style delighted too many fans ... but in my time probably only Butcher, Hughes [albeit briefly, before tiki-taki] and even briefer, Neil McCann [the best Manager we never had?] have come close to playing the football that kept fans happy. So in the end fans got what they wanted. Dodds out Ferguson in, and the briefest of honeymoon's, before it all went t#ts up

Now we know the true, parlous state of the clubs finances, which must have been a factor in recruitment, I wonder if given the option fans would turn back the clock a year and decide to back Dodds? A tricky call given the run he was on when he got sacked

A read through the new manager thread from last year would suggest that very few fans wanted Ferguson in. He appeared from almost nowhere to take the job with the majority of the support sceptical and worried about his appointment. Equally it would seem most of the fans wanted Dodds gone as we were absolutely honking under him for the first few months of the campaign before he was binned. I would say there wasn't much evidence to suggest he could have steered us away from relegation given how things were going under his leadership. Given what has been said about Fergusons pay packet any concerns about the clubs finances didn't appear to apply to him and certainly don't appear to have been a factor in the recruitment process.

[Yngwie]

19 minutes ago, RiG said:

A read through the new manager thread from last year would suggest that very few fans wanted Ferguson in. He appeared from almost nowhere to take the job with the majority of the support sceptical and worried about his appointment. Equally it would seem most of the fans wanted Dodds gone as we were absolutely honking under him for the first few months of the campaign before he was binned. I would say there wasn't much evidence to suggest he could have steered us away from relegation given how things were going under his leadership. Given what has been said about Fergusons pay packet any concerns about the clubs finances didn't appear to apply to him and certainly don't appear to have been a factor in the recruitment process.

I remember saying at the time that whilst Ferguson had a good reputation in coaching and it was an intriguing appointment, there was no evidence that he was a good manager. One year later, there is still no evidence that he is a good manager and indeed there is mounting evidence that he is absolutely terrible.

[Eagle4Caley]

1 hour ago, Eagle4Caley said:

Just for the sake of discussion

If we think back a year, there were plenty of fans, who were gunning for Billy Dodds, because of his annoying knack of going on long runs without winning, and I suspect an annoying interview manner. A Cup Final appearance v a failed league campaign was not the season we wanted. I went to Airdrie away late August and he got plenty of abuse. Yet he was capable of galvanising  a team to recover and go on winning runs [usually when he had enough fit players] and but for injuries might have won the play-offs [?] in 2022. Not sure the playing style delighted too many fans ... but in my time probably only Butcher, Hughes [albeit briefly, before tiki-taki] and even briefer, Neil McCann [the best Manager we never had?] have come close to playing the football that kept fans happy. So in the end fans got what they wanted. Dodds out Ferguson in, and the briefest of honeymoon's, before it all went t#ts up

Now we know the true, parlous state of the clubs finances, which must have been a factor in recruitment, I wonder if given the option fans would turn back the clock a year and decide to back Dodds? A tricky call given the run he was on when he got sacked

If I re-write that bit  "So in the end fans got what they wanted. Dodds out....with Ferguson being appointed"   as I would agree that people weren't clamouring for Big Dunc, just anyone else!  That probably a more accurate reflection. 

I'd also love to understand how the likes of Greenock Morton and Queens Park with ave attendances lower that ICT can actively recruit some of our better players, when it looks like we couldn't afford it in the Championship...is it a case of a management team taking large lumps of cash out of the club as salaries?

[+DoofersDad]

On the pitch we would be no worse off if Dodds were still here but, off the pitch we would be in a better position (or less bad might be more accurate).  Dodds was paid off and Ferguson was appointed on the basis of loans.  The club assumed they were going to receive money which never materialised.

[Yngwie]

35 minutes ago, Eagle4Caley said:

I'd also love to understand how the likes of Greenock Morton and Queens Park with ave attendances lower that ICT can actively recruit some of our better players, when it looks like we couldn't afford it in the Championship...is it a case of a management team taking large lumps of cash out of the club as salaries?

In part, definitely, but remember too that we incur thousands of pounds a week in paying geographical premiums and/or accommodation costs and/or relocation costs, that central belt clubs aren’t faced with.

We happily paid all that when we were living beyond our means and racking up huge losses season after season in the Championship, then reality kicked in and we had to cut costs.

[Eagle4Caley]

1 hour ago, Yngwie said:

In part, definitely, but remember too that we incur thousands of pounds a week in paying geographical premiums and/or accommodation costs and/or relocation costs, that central belt clubs aren’t faced with.

We happily paid all that when we were living beyond our means and racking up huge losses season after season in the Championship, then reality kicked in and we had to cut costs.

So I am going to pull the pin out of the grenade and metaphorically lob it....was the Kelty Hearts plan [on a financial/retention level] not a bad idea... albeit in an ideal world we would need a dual training base option for the youngsters and the day before any match, and in an even more ideal world, a hotel at one end of the ground with a floor dedicated to playing staff, [run by someone like Premier Inn, not the club!] which might address short accommodation issues, obviously would help with that suggestion if I had £10m in my back pocket...but as a long term solution ?

[Duke of Inverness]

I want DF gone also. But realistically who would want to be ICT manager just now? 

Edited July 29 by Duke of Inverness

[caley100]

Quite sad really when we could have had Calum Davidson who I'm sure would have needed less salary than Dufus.  And definitely a better manager.

[big cherly]

1 hour ago, Yngwie said:

In part, definitely, but remember too that we incur thousands of pounds a week in paying geographical premiums and/or accommodation costs and/or relocation costs, that central belt clubs aren’t faced with.

We happily paid all that when we were living beyond our means and racking up huge losses season after season in the Championship, then reality kicked in and we had to cut costs.

Yes, Kelty was visionary. What a pity those thick fans that almost unanimously backed and brought it’s downfall couldn’t see its benefits!!!!!! 
 

Edited July 29 by big cherly

[Scotty]

2 hours ago, Yngwie said:

In part, definitely, but remember too that we incur thousands of pounds a week in paying geographical premiums and/or accommodation costs and/or relocation costs, that central belt clubs aren’t faced with.  We happily paid all that when we were living beyond our means and racking up huge losses season after season in the Championship, then reality kicked in and we had to cut costs.

We should not be paying this. ever. 

Relocation costs, perhaps. subsidising accommodation costs for a few weeks or months, maybe. But not permanent arrangements for multiple people all the time, especially those on six figures who can absolutely afford to pay their own way. You want to play for ICT then like any other job normal people have, you pay your own living costs out of your wages. 

Still dont see how Kelty would have worked ... ok, you don't pay accommodation for a few incoming central belt journeymen, but you would still have to do that for the 1st team players who have established homes and family in Inverness, and who you expect to travel to Kelty to train with the rest of the first team. So there's some digs, and transportation every week regardless. I also dont buy the cost bull**** about Inverness, but - as someone who rents accomodation in Inverness reasonably regularly in the past - it depends on what you are looking at. Are you buying a 10-bed property for the club to run (as someone suggested), putting them up in guest houses (as we used to do in our lower league days), or having them take a room at an expensive hotel (or an equally expensive Air BnB). Also ... If you don't expect the Inverness based players to travel to Kelty, then you are creating a two-tier system and splitting your coaching staff also meaning you either have to hire more coaches for one or both locations. Thats before you ever think about the costs to train in two places (neither are free I assume) and the loss of team spirit by having 1/2 a team at either ends of the country. There were so many flaws or arguments you could have on both sides and with a mute board it becomes a moot point now that this Walter Mitty-esque idea has been shelved and we have moved onto the next one. 

 

31 minutes ago, Duke of Inverness said:

I want DF gone also. But realistically who would want to be ICT manager just now? 

I am sure we would be surprised at who might throw a hat into the ring. Right now, I would take someone whose credentials including winning on championship Manager. Got to be better than the tactics on display at the moment. 

[Leaky Blinder]

No manager would be an upgrade,  or if you will go with a false manager dropping us in the hole .. oh wait ..