The Cove

[Scotty]

Talking of hunting animals, does Canada still allow the clubbing of thousands of seal cubs to death every year? I will make a point of seeing the cove, though I will not change my stance on the Japanese government as I do not agree with their 'whaling for scientific purposes' policy. It's interesting the way in which they have tried to sweep the cove under the carpet. Because they allow this to happen and allow whaling, so long as they do, I boycott ever going on holiday to Japan. This also applies to the Faroes and Iceland (the latter a place I would really like to visit).

Yes, Canada still allows a seal "hunt" every year and it too draws international condemnation. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/05/f-seal-hunt.html

T6NY - Watching the Cove will re-inforce your opinion rather than change it ! However, it does seem a little bit of a shame as in the movie they do give a little bit of balance by showing the Town/City of Taiji where this is taking place and where the officials, and fishermen try to use intimidatory tactics to keep their shame a secret, and they also show rank and file members of the public in Tokyo who have no idea that this is going on ... just like we didnt before this movie!

Not seen it yet. are the dolphins herded into this cove before slaughter and where is it set?How many of you who eat tuna ensure its come from dolphin friendly fisheries?

Alex, it is set in Taiji, Japan and yes, you pretty much have it correct. They are herded into a cove on one day and the next morning some of the Dolphins have a "lucky escape" by being chosen to be exported to Dolphinariums worldwide (and locally). The rest of the dolphins are then driven into a small inlet in the cove which is surrounded on 3 sides by hills and is invisible to the casual observer (The area is officially a "national park" but is barricaded and razor-wired). It is in this small inlet that they are slaughtered. It is called Drive Hunting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_drive_hunting

re:Tuna - I always try to make sure it is ! but after this movie, I may even give Tuna up entirely, certainly going to ask my doc for a mercury level test at my next physical because I do eat a fair amount of it in my sandwiches and salads and stuff.

Taking the morality out of things for a minute, has anyone on here ever eaten dolphin? I haven't but I bet it's lovely.

Please do !!! Then get yourself tested for Mercury poisoning. Seriously Renegade, watch the movie and you would not have even thought of posting that.

TtotheOtotheM: If Ric O'Barry is indeed your uncle then mad respect to him. I swam with (captive) Dolphins in Cuba a couple of years ago and it was an amazing experience, you really can feel how intelligent and self-aware that they are. This is something that makes the movie even harder to watch for me.

Having watched the movie, swimming with dolphins will well and truly have been a once in a lifetime experience for me as I will no longer entertain the idea nor recommend it to people I know. In fact I will use "The Cove" as a reason or tool to show people why they should not do it. Much like Ric O' Barry started by capturing the animals for things like the Flipper series and Seaworld and then went in completely the opposite direction when "Kathy" died, this movie has done the same for me.

If and when I go back to Cuba (or anywhere else that has dolphins you can swim with), I will no longer entertain the idea of doing so. The Cuban dolphins seemed to be fine, they were located in huge pens several miles offshore that appeared to be purpose built rather than being housed in small tanks in a dolphinarium or such like but the bottom line is that they were still captive. I will also be boycotting any facilities like Seaworld or any other aquarium or dolphinarium that may be in any areas we visit on holiday in the future.

Please people, watch this movie .... it may change your outlook too !

[TopSix]

I've e-mailed the Faroese govt tonight to let them know that we won't be travelling to the islands in the summer on the basis of the grind. (I'd been looking at a cruise which will call in at the Faroe Islands.) I've always been confused at the Faroese (and other nations such as the Japanese) carrying out whaling. I recall having a discussion at university with a Faroese girl who defended whaling. The crux of her argument was that the whale meat is (as Scotty's just said) very high in mercury. Therefore they can't eat a lot of it! I still find her point of view even today to be bizarre.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Alex MacLeod
Comment re Renegades team selections deleted as it has absolutely no bearing on this discussion and could be construed as victimisation.

[Alex MacLeod]

faroe Islanders do indeed kill whales. Not only for food but for oil and warmth. As do the Icelanders and Greenlanders. They also kill seals for the same purpose. eastern Asians eat dog. French eat horse. Should we, who eat cow pig and sheep, have a right to tell them what they can or cant eat. It is a very difficult one. What we see as being cuddly animals others see as food.

Its not the killing of the animals that gets to me. Its the way its done. The northern islanders take what they need, and do so humanely. The east asians take what they can and do so by mass slaughter. There is a difference TSNY

Edited March 22, 2010 by Alex MacLeod

[TopSix]

Completely disagree with you Alex in regard to the manner in which these sentient mammals are slaughtered by men plunging axes in to their heads. You could hardly compare this to the process of animal slaughter in the UK where animals are stunned first. Oh, and Renegade's 'joke' about this are about as funny as his team choices. Since you deleted it.

[Guest]

faroe Islanders do indeed kill whales. Not only for food but for oil and warmth. As do the Icelanders and Greenlanders. They also kill seals for the same purpose. eastern Asians eat dog. French eat horse. Should we, who eat cow pig and sheep, have a right to tell them what they can or cant eat. It is a very difficult one. What we see as being cuddly animals others see as food.

Its not the killing of the animals that gets to me. Its the way its done. The northern islanders take what they need, and do so humanely. The east asians take what they can and do so by mass slaughter. There is a difference TSNY

Some very good points made there Alex and whilst my personal opinion is very much on the side of what Scotty and others have written here I would be a total hypocrite if I did not keep an open mind on the subject.

Previous generations of my family on my mother's side were whalers, went to the sea to earn a living as a direct result of the highland clearances and through time whaling became a good source of income for Highland seafarers but the whaling back then led to the decline in numbers of these magnificent beasts. Whale oil was so much in demand for western civilisation's advancement that we almost took every single one of them from the sea. Now, because of the western world's greed and relentless pursuit of power and advancement other countries are suffering in that they have had sanctions placed upon their own traditional hunting. We have a duty to protect the species of this planet but we also have a duty to protect the cultures of the world.

I don't know if I have seen the documentary mentioned in the first post but I have definitely seen a programme which at least touched upon this and have read articles on this slaughter. I will admit that I was emotionally repulsed at what was happening but our own culture is not squeaky clean by any measure.

I recently watched a few episodes of a documentary series called "whale wars" I expected to side with the environmentalists who were trying to disrupt the Japanese whaling fleet but as a seaman I found myself hating them and the tactics they were deploying, their blatant disrespect for human life on the sea hundreds of miles from safety of land was disgusting. In one episode the Japanese had lost a man overboard and the whale watchers who had a helicopter aboard their vessel seemed to be, at first, happy about the situation. As the severity of the situation was realised their attitude did alter but all they did was ask the Japanese captain if he would like any assistance, this was rejected however I would have expected them to have launched their helicopter immediately and done everything within their power to help find the lost soul, who was never recovered. Another tactic they were deploying was lengths of rope designed to foul the propellers of the whaling ships, who act in accordance with international law, this would mean disabling the ship in waters where there were icebergs and extreme weather conditions putting the lives of the whole crew in jeopardy, thankfully they failed.

I am still very open minded on this issue, we have nearly wiped out the world's stock of sea mammals but cultures all over the planet depend on the sea for survival. There must be some kind of balance which can be reached somehow. At the moment I am with Scotty on the specific nature of the annual slaughter of dolphins mentioned in the original post but I have to admit that until I see this documentary and acquaint myself better with the story of the people who carry out this hunt then I cannot fully commit myself to taking any action whether it only be signing a petition to put pressure on those who do it or something more, there are always more than one side to any story. Scotty you have however given me the motivation to look out for this film and further investigate.

[PullMyFinger]

faroe Islanders do indeed kill whales. Not only for food but for oil and warmth. As do the Icelanders and Greenlanders. They also kill seals for the same purpose. eastern Asians eat dog. French eat horse. Should we, who eat cow pig and sheep, have a right to tell them what they can or cant eat. It is a very difficult one. What we see as being cuddly animals others see as food.

Its not the killing of the animals that gets to me. Its the way its done. The northern islanders take what they need, and do so humanely. The east asians take what they can and do so by mass slaughter. There is a difference TSNY

Food politics is always a controversial subject, making the slaughter more humane will put up prices and many would lose their income. I agree with Alex that we shouldn't be critical of other cultures about their practices unless we are changing our own (battery chickens, etc.) and only then by discussion instead of worldwide condemnation through propaganda. The domestication of these beautiful animals does more harm to the species than an annual cull.

[Oz647]

faroe Islanders do indeed kill whales. Not only for food but for oil and warmth. As do the Icelanders and Greenlanders. They also kill seals for the same purpose. eastern Asians eat dog. French eat horse. Should we, who eat cow pig and sheep, have a right to tell them what they can or cant eat. It is a very difficult one. What we see as being cuddly animals others see as food.

Its not the killing of the animals that gets to me. Its the way its done. The northern islanders take what they need, and do so humanely. The east asians take what they can and do so by mass slaughter. There is a difference TSNY

Essentially I agree with Alex on this in regards to food but you have to remember that cows, sheep pigs etc are bred for food purposes and are slaughtered humanely. Whales dolphins etc are not and therefore run the risk of becoming extinct. Also they are not killed humanely in any shape or form. I can live with the islanders killing for food, oil and warmth if there is no reasonable alternative but the japanese methods, amount and reasoning of killing is out of order

Edited because I use big words in the wrong places.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Oz647

[Guest]

Essentially I agree with Alex on this in regards to food but you have to remember that cows, sheep pigs etc are bred for food purposes and are slaughtered humanely. Whales dolphins etc are not and therefore run the risk of becoming extinct. Also they are not killed humanely in any shape or form. I can live with the islanders killing for food, oil and warmth if there is no reasonable alternative but the japanese methods, amount and reasoning of killing is out of order

Edited because I use big words in the wrong places.

This post makes a lot of sense but can I ask you one question? Did the magnificent catfish in your avatar go back into the water?

[Yngwie]

you have to remember that cows, sheep pigs etc are bred for food purposes and are slaughtered humanely. Whales dolphins etc are not and therefore run the risk of becoming extinct.

Would dolphin farms be the answer then?

It's a horrible thought, yet most of us accept it for other mammals.........

[PullMyFinger]

you have to remember that cows, sheep pigs etc are bred for food purposes and are slaughtered humanely. Whales dolphins etc are not and therefore run the risk of becoming extinct.

Would dolphin farms be the answer then?

It's a horrible thought, yet most of us accept it for other mammals.........

Soi they can entertain us for the day and feed us at night? Dolphins would not breed sufficiently in captivity to make this practical anyway.

[Renegade]

I've e-mailed the Faroese govt tonight to let them know that we won't be travelling to the islands in the summer on the basis of the grind. (I'd been looking at a cruise which will call in at the Faroe Islands.) I've always been confused at the Faroese (and other nations such as the Japanese) carrying out whaling. I recall having a discussion at university with a Faroese girl who defended whaling. The crux of her argument was that the whale meat is (as Scotty's just said) very high in mercury. Therefore they can't eat a lot of it! I still find her point of view even today to be bizarre.

Well I'm sure there'll be a few tears in Torshavn tonight!

[TopSix]

you have to remember that cows, sheep pigs etc are bred for food purposes and are slaughtered humanely. Whales dolphins etc are not and therefore run the risk of becoming extinct.

Would dolphin farms be the answer then?

It's a horrible thought, yet most of us accept it for other mammals.........

A thought provoking point. Personally it's the brutal manner in which the the dolphins are dispatched of which I take issue with. Also so few of us have seen the workings of an abbatoir that many people don't think twice about the meat we consume. I found the BBC3 series kill it, cook it, eat it difficult to watch in places but didn't feel it struck home insofar as I didn't see the process first hand. I'll certainly keep an eye out for The Cove. And I still think Renegades joke is as bizarre as his team selections.

[Renegade]

Taking the morality out of things for a minute, has anyone on here ever eaten dolphin? I haven't but I bet it's lovely.

Please do !!! Then get yourself tested for Mercury poisoning. Seriously Renegade, watch the movie and you would not have even thought of posting that.

you have to remember that cows, sheep pigs etc are bred for food purposes and are slaughtered humanely. Whales dolphins etc are not and therefore run the risk of becoming extinct.

Would dolphin farms be the answer then?

It's a horrible thought, yet most of us accept it for other mammals.........

A thought provoking point. Personally it's the brutal manner in which the the dolphins are dispatched of which I take issue with. Also so few of us have seen the workings of an abbatoir that many people don't think twice about the meat we consume. I found the BBC3 series kill it, cook it, eat it difficult to watch in places but didn't feel it struck home insofar as I didn't see the process first hand. I'll certainly keep an eye out for The Cove. And I still think Renegades joke is as bizarre as his team selections.

Maybe farming whales for consumption wouldn't be a bad idea. It would probably mean that whale numbers would go up, they wouldn't be killed so "inhumanely" and the Greeny-Anti-Whaling-Save-the-Rainforest lot wouldn't have much to complain about (as well as some yummy yummy burgers!)

And on the T6NS other bit. Didn't you start a thread a while back calling for me to be banned over some trivial matter? Says a lot about you really...

[Scotty]

Maybe farming whales for consumption wouldn't be a bad idea. It would probably mean that whale numbers would go up, they wouldn't be killed so "inhumanely" and the Greeny-Anti-Whaling-Save-the-Rainforest lot wouldn't have much to complain about (as well as some yummy yummy burgers!)

You really are quite ignorant arent you ! You dont know me so please dont pigeon-hole me into any all encompassing stereotypical activist group you choose to be derisory about. why dont you watch the film and come back and have an informed discussion.

There are plenty of people on here making a serious attempt at debating this subject and many valid points have been brought up, please dont drag the topic down.

[TopSix]

There's a time and place for jokes Renegade but I feel passionate about this topic. I'm also passionate about ICT and if I recall correctly the jist of my previous thread was in response to you being really negative about the teams chances of success this season. We hear enough negativity at the stadium with having to read it on here. Your post about whale farms is, I assume, written to be tongue-in-cheek but it doesn't come across like that. Getting back to the topic, have you watched any footage of the Faroese grind online? Also thanks to Scotty for creating this thread regarding The Cove. The more people who see it the better.

[Renegade]

There's a time and place for jokes Renegade but I feel passionate about this topic. I'm also passionate about ICT and if I recall correctly the jist of my previous thread was in response to you being really negative about the teams chances of success this season. We hear enough negativity at the stadium with having to read it on here.

I wasn't being negative at all, all I asked was, if ICT went down, who would go and who would stay. Well hook me up the electric chair! Just as well most posters saw your sorry attempt at getting me banned, with the hilarity it deserved.

Your post about whale farms is, I assume, written to be tongue-in-cheek but it doesn't come across like that.

Not at all.

Getting back to the topic, have you watched any footage of the Faroese grind online? Also thanks to Scotty for creating this thread regarding The Cove. The more people who see it the better.

No thanks, I also do like cows, pigs and especially little lambs. Why? Cause they taste good, but I'd rather not see the journey of field to dinner plate.

[TopSix]

Thanks for clearing that up Renegade. I thought you were joking but you're choosing to be ignorant about this issue and try to get some cheap jokes in about it. In regard to e-mailing the faroese government, if enough people do it may make them change their policy on this.

[Guest]

Renegade, TSNY any chance you guys might want to go to the playground and fight this out, please? The serious topics forum was created so that this type of schoolyard stuff could be kept elsewhere IIRC.

[Renegade]

Sorry sir. I know, I've been foolish.

And let me clarify - whaling is bad.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Renegade

[Scotty]

Renegade, TSNY any chance you guys might want to go to the playground and fight this out, please? The serious topics forum was created so that this type of schoolyard stuff could be kept elsewhere IIRC.

spoken like a true mod :D

However, I do echo the sentiment.

[Guest]

Renegade, TSNY any chance you guys might want to go to the playground and fight this out, please? The serious topics forum was created so that this type of schoolyard stuff could be kept elsewhere IIRC.

spoken like a true mod :024:

However, I do echo the sentiment.

Apologies for the backseat moderating but it was done in the spirit of the forum's self moderating atmosphere.

[ElderBoy]

Well having read Scotty's thread on this, then going and watching it, i was pretty disgusted at what the Japanese were actually doing with the dolphins and the way they killed them if they weren't good enough for a dolphinarium as scotty covered earlier in the thread, literally the water was a sea of red afterwards.

I'm sure they also talked about how they offered the fishermen the same amount of money to not capture and kill them, but they refused.

Another interesting thing was the 'IWC', which the japanese have found lots of loopholes for. Also getting bankrupt countries from the caribbean like St Kitts and paying them a lump sum to agree with there ideas for the IWC.

well worth a watch, i have to admit i was pretty shocked.

[Oz647]

Essentially I agree with Alex on this in regards to food but you have to remember that cows, sheep pigs etc are bred for food purposes and are slaughtered humanely. Whales dolphins etc are not and therefore run the risk of becoming extinct. Also they are not killed humanely in any shape or form. I can live with the islanders killing for food, oil and warmth if there is no reasonable alternative but the japanese methods, amount and reasoning of killing is out of order

Edited because I use big words in the wrong places.

This post makes a lot of sense but can I ask you one question? Did the magnificent catfish in your avatar go back into the water?

Of course it did, as do all the fish I catch apart from the odd trout which I will take for my dinner.

[Scotty]

Another interesting thing was the 'IWC', which the japanese have found lots of loopholes for. Also getting bankrupt countries from the caribbean like St Kitts and paying them a lump sum to agree with there ideas for the IWC.

Ahh yes, the Nevis "chicken house" !!! One of many similar buildings, mostly unoccupied, dotted around the Carribean and built with Japanese funds in return for favourable voting at the IWC !

Interesting to note at the end of the movie that while Dominica has resigned from the IWC, "new" countries have taken their place including Cambodia, Ecuador, Guinea-Bissau, Kiribati (a sinking set of Atolls), Laos (a land-locked country), and the Marshall Islands ... not surprisingly, each and every one of them either has Japan as a major trading partner or receives massive aid from them.

[ElderBoy]

The Faroe Islands are bad for this too. i have a few pictures i received in an email :