Here It Is.....

[CaleyD]

Just incase anyone was having trouble finding it!!!

[Sorted]

Good man CD, glad someone found it.

Now, the $64 million dollar question - When do we press it?

Interesting to see if it's the same rules of engagement for this boss as it has been for his predecessor. Shoes off by now surely? Articles in the paper from the Trust? Public meetings anyone?

No. Won't be a witch hunt this time.

And the difference is?

Because as far as this poster can see, there is none...............

Maybe people have realised that the way we treated Brewster was appalling and that no matter what, Butcher deserves to be treated with more respect. Either that or they are just **** scared of him!

[caleyboy]

IMO it's too early to panic and sacking a manager is too easy. I don't think the problem lies with the manager's ability, it goes deeper than that. Any manager is only as good as his staff and the budget he has dictates the quality he can buy/pay for. Our problem lies with our power brokers - they enjoy the power but either won't or cant afford to bring this Premier League Team up to a Premier League Club. It really is a very simple case, we either find the financial backing to give the manager a chance at this level or we all accept that we just can't sustain our position. OBTW, ?250k will just cove the cracks!

[CaleyD]

I posted the image with tongue in cheek. Any decision driven by panic is never a good idea...regardless of the situation or outcome being sought.

[TopSix]

Can a mod re-name this this thread "there's it". Just to keep things grammatically correct (in Inverneeshan).

[Yngwie]

Interesting to see if it's the same rules of engagement for this boss as it has been for his predecessor. Shoes off by now surely? Articles in the paper from the Trust? Public meetings anyone?

No. Won't be a witch hunt this time.

And the difference is?

Because as far as this poster can see, there is none...............

Really?

[PullMyFinger]

Good man CD, glad someone found it.

Now, the $64 million dollar question - When do we press it?

Interesting to see if it's the same rules of engagement for this boss as it has been for his predecessor. Shoes off by now surely? Articles in the paper from the Trust? Public meetings anyone?

No. Won't be a witch hunt this time.

And the difference is?

Because as far as this poster can see, there is none...............

Maybe people have realised that the way we treated Brewster was appalling and that no matter what, Butcher deserves to be treated with more respect. Either that or they are just **** scared of him!

Whilst there are some similarities, it is different by a country mile.

Brewster wasn't fit enough to play for us but found himself playing again immediately when he was shown the door.

Brewster had us stranded at the bottom of the league.

Terry and Mo have the makings of a great team here, this is a building season and there's no way we'll be in a relegation fight come February. You can quote me on that.

[ICTPaisley]

Good man CD, glad someone found it.

Now, the $64 million dollar question - When do we press it?

Interesting to see if it's the same rules of engagement for this boss as it has been for his predecessor. Shoes off by now surely? Articles in the paper from the Trust? Public meetings anyone?

No. Won't be a witch hunt this time.

And the difference is?

Because as far as this poster can see, there is none...............

Maybe people have realised that the way we treated Brewster was appalling and that no matter what, Butcher deserves to be treated with more respect. Either that or they are just **** scared of him!

Terry and Mo have the makings of a great team here, this is a building season and there's no way we'll be in a relegation fight come February. You can quote me on that.

What exactly have they built if this is a building season? The only thing i can see is short term contracts and even shorter loans.

[Scotty]

What exactly have they built if this is a building season? The only thing i can see is short term contracts and even shorter loans.

Unfortunately, thats the nature of the beast ... we can only spend what we make (and a little bit on top of that if the accounts are anything to go by) and what we make does not allow for longer term contracts with signing on fees that reflect the length of longer terms, nor does it allow us to shop for "proven" players on higher wages, instead we are looking for raw or untapped talent and hoping they will come good ....

And as for short term loans, lets put that one right into context ... the two most recent loans were short because they were to cover for injuries - expected to be of 3-4 months duration - that occurred right at the start of the season before the window was closed. Its a gamble, of course it is, but if Hayes, Cox, Hogg, Tudur-Jones etc etc etc all come back around December/January then the wisdom of a short term loan may well be seen ... the wage bill is precarious in terms of making the books balance and a short term loan means we can send the player back if our other players recover in time. Conversely, the loans could also be extended if that doesnt happen. In my mind, thats actually quite astute rather than foolish.

The biggest mistake made, and yes I believe it was a huge mistake, and have said it a dozen times in other threads, was getting rid of Grant and Russell. They could still have done a job for us this season (and beyond) and TB does have to live with that one.... but that in itself is not a sacking offence !

I do still believe it will click well before the season is over but I have to admit to being concerned. I dont like us sitting at the bottom, but we are not adrift like we were the last time. There are only two wins separating 6th spot and 12th so I am not hitting the panic button (yet). I respect the right of others to be concerned, or even to think its time for a change, its a valid argument given our league position ... but I respectfully disagree. And I disagree not because my head is up my @rse or in the sand, but because I have a different opinion

PS -- heard Terry has followed CaleyD around the stadium replacing his button with these ones ....

[PullMyFinger]

Terry and Mo have the makings of a great team here, this is a building season and there's no way we'll be in a relegation fight come February. You can quote me on that.

What exactly have they built if this is a building season? The only thing i can see is short term contracts and even shorter loans.

There's a foundation of players who can and do play football on the ground. At the moment we have a few important players out. When they come back into the team they can and will build on that foundation. I was critical of Brewster, even attending the ST meeting to make my views known but there's no way I can criticise what Tel and Mo are trying to do here. The only way is up.

[PullMyFinger]

I disagree not because my head is up my @rse

Just a coincidence?

[Sorted]

Good man CD, glad someone found it.

Now, the $64 million dollar question - When do we press it?

Interesting to see if it's the same rules of engagement for this boss as it has been for his predecessor. Shoes off by now surely? Articles in the paper from the Trust? Public meetings anyone?

No. Won't be a witch hunt this time.

And the difference is?

Because as far as this poster can see, there is none...............

Maybe people have realised that the way we treated Brewster was appalling and that no matter what, Butcher deserves to be treated with more respect. Either that or they are just **** scared of him!

Whilst there are some similarities, it is different by a country mile.

Brewster wasn't fit enough to play for us but found himself playing again immediately when he was shown the door.

Brewster had us stranded at the bottom of the league.

Terry and Mo have the makings of a great team here, this is a building season and there's no way we'll be in a relegation fight come February. You can quote me on that.

Have to correct the totally inaccurate statements you make PMF.

Brewster was sacked (after an orchestrated campaign to have him removed) on 10th Jan 2009. At that point we were bottom by one point from Falkirk. As I recall we were bottom for considerably less time than we have been this period at at no point - 'stranded at the bottom of the league'.

As for the playing element, he took part in 10 games a division below the SPL. Hardly breathtaking.

Different perspective eh?

[PullMyFinger]

Okay, point taken.

I'll try again.

Butcher.....Good guy.

Brewster....W4\K.

[PullMyFinger]

We did have our longest stretch without a win having watched our team freefall from the top of the table.

[CaleyD]

For me, I think the difference is the kind of problems we're facing at present.

Brewster was, IMO, dragging a good team down whereas Butcher is trying to build.

Whilst there's fair argument that he perhaps stripped things back too far before beginning that process, I honestly believe that we are heading in the right direction. Not as fast as we all might have liked/hoped for, but the process has been more than a little hampered by injury and luck hasn't been on our side in 2 or 3 games.

I can see Butcher bringing us through this....not a vision I had when Brewster was in charge.

[Sorted]

Appreciate that CD. People have different perspectives on issues, none of which can be measured.

All I am pointing out is that if you concentrate only on what is 'measurable' then the situation at present is on a par, if not worse than January 2009.

For the record, I tend to agree with your reasoning but reach a different end conclusion. I'm as worried now as I was then.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Here is a wee clipboard to stick up in Terry's office

Dear Terry - Here is a list of things to do - give me a shout if you require clarification or a wee session

1.Self-absorbed (acts like everything is all about him or her)

2.Entitled (makes the rules; breaks the rules)

3.Demeaning (puts you down, bullyish)

4.Demanding (of whatever he or she wants)

5.Distrustful (suspicious of your motives when you?re being nice to him or her)

6.Perfectionistic (rigidly high standards ? his or her way or no way)

7.Snobbish (believes he or she is superior to you and others; gets bored easily)

8.Approval seeking (craves constant praise and recognition)

9.Unempathetic (uninterested in understanding your inner experience, or unable to do so)

10.Unremorseful (cannot offer a genuine apology)

11.Compulsive (gets overly consumed with details and minutiae)

12.Addictive (cannot let go of bad habits; uses them to self-soothe)

13.Emotionally detached (steers clear of feelings)

And finally for the dressing room - a poster and a wee aide memoire

[CaleyD]

Appreciate that CD. People have different perspectives on issues, none of which can be measured.

All I am pointing out is that if you concentrate only on what is 'measurable' then the situation at present is on a par, if not worse than January 2009.

For the record, I tend to agree with your reasoning but reach a different end conclusion. I'm as worried now as I was then.

Yeah, as someone who always used to try and apply pure logic to football I get where you are coming from and if decisions were made and opinions were formed based purely on league table and results then Butcher should be reaching to pull his coat from a shoogly peg.

Fortunately football is a far more interesting game than that and analysis and discussion goes beyond the quantifiable aspects. In fact, ICT is a club that got where it is today through factors that nobody has ever been able to put a firm finger on and say "That's the reason".

I've seen a lot more football this season than I have in the last couple (only missed 2 games) so I've been both fortunate and unfortunate enough to witness the best and worst as well as the down right unfortunate. Had that not been the case and I was basing opinion purely on results and reports then I may have been leaning more in the other direction.

It's tough to argue a case against the facts when all you have is opinion and gut feeling.

I don't think Butcher has got everything right, but I also don't think he is blind to the issues and will, when situation permits, move to rectify them. Another "immeasurable" I know...but hey...that's football.

[Sorted]

Seen much more than me then this season. Going on Saturday so fingers crossed.

For the record, I'm much happier with the sensible approach and reason shown by most in the current situation. Just slightly confused as to why it is shown to some and not others.

I was at the Hamilton game before Brewster got sacked and thought we had enough chances to win ten games. Looked secure at the back and Cerny was magnificent in goals. Granty's challenge was unecessary.

Onwards and upwards.......

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

SHOES ON

Perhaps in the case of Mr Brewster the decision was taken over a course of time (at least a feckin year IMHO)- by the way we got beat !!

[bigjohn]

Can a mod re-name this this thread "there's it". Just to keep things grammatically correct (in Inverneeshan).

[TopSix]