Rangers go into administration

[CaleyD]

So why is everyone second guessing what they may or may not do? Had Rangers not gone into admin but instead had cut there budgets to manage their affairs and as a result finished bottom of the league would Sky have pulled out? Would there be such argument to ensure Rangers stayed in the league? Would the rules have been changed to ensure they couldnt be relegated? Many people are trying to make supposition fact but the truth is in the first four words in the last line of your comment above. No official Sky statement.

I suspect that just as nobody every thought Rangers or Celtic would go bust (too big to fail syndrome) nobody ever contemplated a scenario where they might get relegated and, yes, we would be facing a situation where things were being changed to keep them in the league for the exact same reasons as we are seeing it now. As I pointed out elsewhere, a situation for which the foundations were laid when the SPL were formed and which, aside from county and ourselves, 10 members of the SPL were founder members of that.

Emmm....you were the one trying to put forward a supposition as a fact, so not sure what point you are trying to make.

The point I've been trying to make now seems to have dawned on you though....without a commitment from Sky (and others) one way or the other, then clubs have to work on a worst case scenario. At best, they can make no more than a judgement call.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Still can't see how sky could pull out completely when they still have contractual obligations to provide feeds to other networks for next season.

[CaleyD]

Hibs now confirmed as a definite "No" vote - http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20120624/club-statement_2262950_2821039

That makes it 3 and a half.

[PaderbornCaley]

Hibs have officially stated that they will say no?

[Oddquine]

So basically, SPL Clubs have been relying on playing 3rd-11th fiddle to the OF for eternity and have based their incomes, not on what they make as football clubs through their own efforts, and regarding what they get from being in the SPL as a bonus for as long as they are in the SPL, but on what the OF has allowed them to have to keep them on board their self-launched ship of fools? And the problems are not as much with one or both of the OF going..but the fact that most of the rest of the SPL live above their own means all the time and can't afford to lose either of them?

Any way we can get the OF, both of them, deported to anywhere else in the world as undesirable elements in Scottish football, and get back to the reality that we have far too many professional/semi-professional football clubs for the numbers of punters living in Scotland to support in the manner they have grown to feel they deserve, partly because too many of us are OF glory hunters and not real football supporters, so don't take any notice of local teams? Even the SFA has refused to bite that bullet with no effort to reduce the number of clubs in the divisions in their current self-serving "revamp". Can't see a lot of difference between the various governing bodies of football in Scotland dickering round the edges of what suits them on the assumption that any change is useful change and UK Governments doing the same with the benefits system in the UK. Neither do forward thinking at all.

What we need is either a short-term fix to allow us time to work out the best way to do sensible and pragmatic, so we don't live eternally in a situation in which football success can only mean threads like this turning up with regular monotony (and I'm not convinced the current SFA "offer" will do that as it is too short term time-wise)...or a whole revamp of SFA, SPL and SFL rules so that there are laid down, immutable and fair penalties for every possible transgression which could possibly, conceivably ever occur..but that would assume that self-interested clubs can see past the end of their self-interested "there but for the grace of god go I tomorrow" noses and do thinking about the best thing for Scottish football and not with the aim of perpetuating their own club's position within it

Will be reading any response from here .

[FoolPhysio]

http://www.rangersme...oard&Itemid=531

Nice one!

What a load of P***H

Both hilarious and pathetic at the same time!

It's the comments below that are most illuminating - apart from one sad bleat at the start, basically everyone else is ripping into this "open letter" and calling it what it is. A refusal to accept responsibility and to blame everyone else for their current and future woes.

Thankfully it seems this clown is NOT representative of the vast majority of Rangers fans. And I echo earlier comments that I feel sorry for them, the ordinary supporter, who is having to watch what they thought was a strong and proud team to be humiliated and pilloried.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Now if what is being reported is correct a deal has been done with the suits at the SFL....

But if you read the different views there are many who don't want them in Division 1 for obvious reasons. Then there are those who are giving the reasons why they should not be in Division 3 (ground safety, policing costs etc). Happy compromise Division 2?

I always believed that the SFL1 scenario was always going to be on the cards and all that was going to be needed was the paperwork and agreements to allow it to happen. I might not agree with it but it looks like that is what will now happen....

So who is going to replace them and more importantly what is the detail behind the SFL deal that was made (and what will the new SPL deal look like - I suspect not much will change for ICT as SPL and SFL1 games will become part of an expanded TV package with additional monies going to the SFL teams).

But maybe just maybe ICT may get some increased revenue out of this whole sorry debacle.

[bdu98196]

Allowing a Newco company into the SFL 1 is a cop out if it happens and shows the Scottish football to be spineless, if thats deemed to be an acceptable situation then why do we have promotion & relegation as each season we should just have votes to allow teams into any league. Fact is Rangers (OldCo) no longer exist so cannot be demoted by a division, the Newco is just that so how can they enter in any position thats not the bottom tier. On this basis what is preventing any other SFL or non-league team applying for direct entry to SFL 1, thus eliminating the need to win promotion from SFL 2 & 3.

The whole situation reeks. If they are allowing the Newco into SFL 1 then they may as well let them into the SPL - what is the precedent here now if another SPL club goes into liquidation, do they also get to become a Newco and only become demoted one division, or is this indeed a 'special' case and everyone else is back to SPL 3.

Allowing Newco into SFL 1 only partially addresses the ethics and integrity issues this scenario has raised and while seeing sanctions taken would mean fans continue to support the SPL, there will still be some who feel this isnt enough (currently I'm still deciding), or perhaps will boycott when Newco are back in the SPL after only 12 months abscence - they need to be away for the maximum duration IMO (which is 3 years based on going into SFL 3).

[CaleyD]

No deal has been done, and any suggestions to that effect are just more media hype/spin.

Aside from anything else, those who met do not have the power to agree such a deal and if you cut all the BS from the reports and look at what are directly attributable quotes, then all that has been agreed is that they will continue to look at league restructuring....hardly "news" let alone a breaking story.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

CD I would tend to agree with you but we know how from small acorns oak trees grow especially with today's spin doctors and a willing media that will support it. To stretch the analogy to breaking point the seed has been planted. This SFL1 solution I believe (and as bdu98196 stated it 'reeks') is what both the SPL and SFL suits want and their challenge is how do they achieve it in less than four weeks....and whether we believe it or not their next step is to get the SFL clubs on board. The dilema that Scottish Football has got itself into is because of a lack of clear direction when the current events took shape and historically planning for such an event and more so when the probability of such an outcome became more likely. Whatever solution is eventually realised there will still be a large percentage unhappy whether it is SPL fans, SFL fans, club chairmen etc etc.

This is no different from other businesses going through harsh times as it means sacrifices and compromises are going to have to be made. Unfortunately those leading scottish football at the different levels have to date shown that they do not have the ability to do so either individually or collectively.

[Yngwie]

With it now seeming inevitable that Rangers will be an SFL side, at best, I wonder if more of their squad will now reject the TUPE transfer to Newco and make themselves free agents?

[RiG]

Saint Johnstone have said no as well now!

http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitemsdetail.php?param=2060

[Alex MacLeod]

Wonder if they'll manage to put a squad together that can get them promotion

[CaleyD]

Be lucky to get a squad together to compete at ANY level....if you were a player, would you want to be "tainted"!!!

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

A new experience for Rangers fans next season - the Challenge Cup. Seemingly they will still get at least one derby with a revamped Glasgow Cup. As you say now the challenge is to get a team to be able to play in them but I am sure there are several who will take the plunge. A certain Mr Black may now be just the type of player that they will be looking at.

[Alex MacLeod]

Can you honestly see Blackie as a div 3 player? Remember this is a guy who, according to Levien, can be an International player if he sorts his moments of madness out. Not going to get a look in in the lower leagues.

[Charles Bannerman]

A new experience for Rangers fans next season - the Challenge Cup.

So what would have to happen here if Brand New Rangersco were to be elected into the SFL? They would need to go into the South/ West section of the Ramsdens Cup while Dundee or Dunfermline went out of the North/ East section into the SPL, resulting in the need to switch one team from SW to NE.

Geographically the most obvious candidates would seem to be Livi or Stenhousemuir so what do the SFL do? Completely redraw the first round or give Rangers these clubs' draws away to Annan or Stranraer?

Remember, the Ramsdens Cup starts on July 28th - four weeks Saturday, or 24 days after the SPL's formal vote - so there's a whole lot of detail to be sorted out in a very limited time in a large number of ways. Also, is this a long enough time for any attempt by the SFA to overhaul the entire show?

And on the subject of a vacancy arising in the SFL due to Dundee or Dunfermline going up, what does the SFL do? Does it simply have a quick vote Yea or Nay solely on Rangers gettng into the Third Division or does it also give other potential candidates the opportunity to apply for the vacant place?

Might a better idea not be for Son of Rangers to take a year completely out of football to give them the chance to sort out player contracts and to allow the relevant Governing Bodies time to sort out what on earth to do while the 2012-13 season gets under way cleanly for the rest of the clubs?

Even that would presumably mean Division 3 going ahead with nine clubs and the Division 1 and 2 playoff final losers also getting promotion to these leagues.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[Yngwie]

Might a better idea not be for Son of Rangers to take a year completely out of football to give them the chance to sort out player contracts and to allow the relevant Governing Bodies time to sort out what on earth to do while the 2012-13 season gets under way cleanly for the rest of the clubs?

Given that they have players under contract (as well as all the other employees) how would they avoid going bust again?

All I can think is that they could travel around playing exhibition matches like the Harlem Globetrotters. Except they'd be the Govan Taxdodgers. And they wouldn't get near the 'hoops'.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Can you honestly see Blackie as a div 3 player? Remember this is a guy who, according to Levien, can be an International player if he sorts his moments of madness out. Not going to get a look in in the lower leagues.

Nope - but if they are in SFL1 then yes and I think there will be no shortage of others who are out of contract either who may look at it as an opportunity.

[bdu98196]

So if my understanding is correct - publically against Newco

Hearts, Hibs, D Utd, Dons, ICT, St J

Teams who have yet to 'decide'

Motherwell, Kille, St M, Ross County, Celtic

Excluding Ross County as they are only just promoted and joining the SPL board etc - that looks like a 'west coast mafia' all sticking together? Will we assume that these will now obstain as this means they wont be the villians in the eyes of Newco fans and think it will appease the fans of other clubs who will not carry out their threat to boycott as there is not a 'No' vote made?

Or am I reading too much into this too early on?

[Yngwie]

Given that they can't now influence the outcome, I think you are right that some of those clubs will abstain in order to minimise the upset caused to fans from either side of the debate. I hope the splinters are very uncomfortable.

[Yngwie]

With Rangers now having to apply to the SFL as their only option, I wonder if Albion, Berwick, Stenny, Stranraer and Brechin have long enough memories to remember Rangers' 1964 ploy to reform the league without them?

http://www.londonhea.../1964052601.htm

"It is a proposal for dissolution coupled with an agreement that immediately afterwards the league will reform itself under the same guise...." This approach is clearly embedded in the Rangers strategy handbook!

[Mantis - note that in 1964 they are referred to as Glasgow Rangers.]

Edited June 26, 2012 by Yngwie

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Digressing briefly - I have a signed team sheet from the 70's when Urquhart was at Rangers and it clearly says Glasgow Rangers on the letter head (and a nice raised sketch of the old Ibrox main stand) - maybe there has always been something going on....

Returning to topic - now it appears the SFL clubs knifes are out for them also....

Edited June 26, 2012 by Tichy_Blacks_Back

[StockholmSyndrome]

Returning to topic - now it appears the SFL clubs knifes are out for them also....

I wouldn't be at all surprised. I think there'd be a tremendous amount of resentment if they were simply allowed to walk into Division 1. I think even if they apply for admittance to the SFL it's not going to be an easy process for them... hopefully.

[ICTRoughi]

Steven Davis and Allan McGregor the next two to walk away.