Seasons stats

[bauhaus]

Is this the mother of all seasons for us. Since we joined the league, have we ever had so few penalties in a season, had so many sent off and suspensions over the season from bookings, and have we broken our record of scoring our oppositions goals. We know that we have never had a season to match our injuries before. Combined, it must be our hardest season.

[Northern_jaggie]

Interesting looking at attendance figures (sorry you have to click on the link)

The following are approximate average attendance figures for league home games up until the last three games of the season (so we can make this season relevant up until now). Cup games are not included although there is likely to be an of-shoot into league attendances based on a cup run.

06/07 - 4600 - Charlies season (Finished 8th)

07/08 - 4900 - Brewster era (Finished 9th)

08/09 - 4300 - Terry takes over in January (Relegated)

09/10 - 3400 - 1st division

10/11 - 4600 - Promoted (Finished 7th, best place finish)

11/12 - 4050 - This season

This is not a witch hunt people, purely a discussion about why our attendance at home this season has been so poor. It seems strange that following promotion and our best place finish for the attendance to be almost 1000 down on average compared to 07/08. This could be down to the honeymoon period??

Perhaps its as simple as not playing as good a standard of football as we used to this season, team appeal and club profile also must play a massive part.

We, as a business, need to ensure bums on seats is the criteria for betterment of the club. We need to ask ourselves why we are 850 seats a game down on average for essentially the same league position in a previous season.

Discuss.

Season 06-12.bmp

[Yngwie]

1. Not enough wins, too many defeats. Watching your team win is more appealing than watching them lose, and this is our worst season ever in terms of results.
   
2. General decline in football attendances due to drop in disposable incomes and increased travel costs. Visiting fan numbers will be down too.
   
3. Lack of quality football and entertainment at TCS.
   

I would ordinarily expect next season's season ticket sales and average crowd to drop significantly due to our recent poor form,but the attraction of derbies will limit the damage (assuming we stay up).

[CaleyD]

Interesting looking at attendance figures (sorry you have to click on the link)

The following are approximate average attendance figures for league home games up until the last three games of the season (so we can make this season relevant up until now). Cup games are not included although there is likely to be an of-shoot into league attendances based on a cup run.

06/07 - 4600 - Charlies season (Finished 8th)

07/08 - 4900 - Brewster era (Finished 9th)

08/09 - 4300 - Terry takes over in January (Relegated)

09/10 - 3400 - 1st division

10/11 - 4600 - Promoted (Finished 7th, best place finish)

11/12 - 4050 - This season

This is not a witch hunt people, purely a discussion about why our attendance at home this season has been so poor. It seems strange that following promotion and our best place finish for the attendance to be almost 1000 down on average compared to 07/08. This could be down to the honeymoon period??

Perhaps its as simple as not playing as good a standard of football as we used to this season, team appeal and club profile also must play a massive part.

We, as a business, need to ensure bums on seats is the criteria for betterment of the club. We need to ask ourselves why we are 850 seats a game down on average for essentially the same league position in a previous season.

Discuss.

"Not a witch hunt", but somehow Butcher takes over after the damage has been done to the 08/09 season and many fans were already boycotting because of Brewster....yet figures for the season get chalked up against Butcher?

[Northern_jaggie]

I did say that Terry took over in January, that’s a fact. Any reader would have questioned who was in charge prior to him and could have seen the line above. Given season tickets are sold PRIOR to the start of the season and it was clearly stated that Terry took over in January, I’m not sure how that constitutes figures for the season getting "chalked up against Butcher". It is not a witch hunt - did you miss the part about crediting him with our highest finish in the league?

It’s pretty petty to pick up on that to be honest. It was an honest question following an observation on statistics and I didn’t expect to be attacked on it. It’s a shame when someone can’t express an opinion on a forum without being targeted as having an ulterior motive.

The manager is one of a great many variables which affects attendances; it was purely a question of what is wrong and what we can do right as a club on the whole.

[CaleyD]

That wasn't an attack, it was a response based on my perception of your post.

Around 25% of our crowds are walk up/pay at the gate....so whilst season ticket holders making the decision to stay away after having purchased will not reflect in the figures, there's still ample scope for damage to be done to the average.

What's more, plenty of people were hacked off with Brewster from the previous season and that would have had an impact on Season Ticket sales for 08/09.

From there, obviously the relegation took it's toll and least season would have seen a bit of a bounce following on from the promotion season. This year will have suffered partly from losing some of those who got caught up in the excitement of the promotion...think that was going to be inevitable unless we had done something extraordinary last season.

I was at a meeting/workshop last night about the production of a Scottish Football Fans Charter which is being looked at from the ground up. Everyone in the room was asked to list their good and bad experiences and results/performance on the pitch came a fair way down the list of things that spoil the matchday experience. I am therefore less inclined to attach so much of the blame for dwindling crowds to results/performance.

If you accept that last point then you have to start looking at what does turn people off...what makes the matchday experience a good one and keeps people coming back? The answer to that is different for different groups of people. Anything from being treated poorly by staff/stewards (poor customer service) to lack of craic/banter could go down on that list.

As fans there's little we can do (directly) about the product on the pitch, but we probably can do something about the other stuff....but only if we are willing to put a bit of effort in to get something back from it. Last night is a good example, only the Supporters Trust and CLAN had made the effort to get people to attend the workshop. The ICT Supporters Club were a no show and C*unty couldn't bothered sending anyone either.

Not a go at you, or anyone other specific person, but the opportunities are there for fans to influence and effect positive change, but it seems they are willing to do no more than rant on a forum and hope that others will pick up the work and do everything on their behalf. Until that starts to change then we don't have a strong platform from which to complain about what is happening.

[Scotty]

This is not a witch hunt people, purely a discussion about why our attendance at home this season has been so poor. It seems strange that following promotion and our best place finish for the attendance to be almost 1000 down on average compared to 07/08. This could be down to the honeymoon period??

Perhaps its as simple as not playing as good a standard of football as we used to this season, team appeal and club profile also must play a massive part.

We, as a business, need to ensure bums on seats is the criteria for betterment of the club. We need to ask ourselves why we are 850 seats a game down on average for essentially the same league position in a previous season.

1. Not enough wins, too many defeats. Watching your team win is more appealing than watching them lose, and this is our worst season ever in terms of results.
   
2. General decline in football attendances due to drop in disposable incomes and increased travel costs. Visiting fan numbers will be down too.
   
3. Lack of quality football and entertainment at TCS.
   

I would ordinarily expect next season's season ticket sales and average crowd to drop significantly due to our recent poor form,but the attraction of derbies will limit the damage (assuming we stay up).

I would add a #4 to the list above and like it or not that is the economy !

Yngwie kind of touched on it in his point 2, but with entry prices on the steep side and many folk suffering due to the recession(s) then its only natural that combined with some of the valid reasons raised, some people choose not to use their dwindling disposable income to go watch a football match in a league that has stumbled from one crisis to another over the last few years ....

There is no single reason for the decline, every point raised plays a part, and the ratio of how much it plays will vary from team to team ....... I hope that the supporters charter being talked about right now can embrace all of these concerns so that Scottish football can hopefully turn a corner and start recovering .... the alternative doesnt bear thinking about !

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

And he referred to me as being a pr1ck !!

[Joe DiMaggio]

Interesting looking at attendance figures (sorry you have to click on the link)

The following are approximate average attendance figures for league home games up until the last three games of the season (so we can make this season relevant up until now). Cup games are not included although there is likely to be an of-shoot into league attendances based on a cup run.

06/07 - 4600 - Charlies season (Finished 8th)

07/08 - 4900 - Brewster era (Finished 9th)

08/09 - 4300 - Terry takes over in January (Relegated)

09/10 - 3400 - 1st division

10/11 - 4600 - Promoted (Finished 7th, best place finish)

11/12 - 4050 - This season

This is not a witch hunt people, purely a discussion about why our attendance at home this season has been so poor. It seems strange that following promotion and our best place finish for the attendance to be almost 1000 down on average compared to 07/08. This could be down to the honeymoon period??

Perhaps its as simple as not playing as good a standard of football as we used to this season, team appeal and club profile also must play a massive part.

We, as a business, need to ensure bums on seats is the criteria for betterment of the club. We need to ask ourselves why we are 850 seats a game down on average for essentially the same league position in a previous season.

Discuss.

Think your stats are slightly wrong

04/05 4,067 but with half a season in Aberdeen (finished 8^th 44 points)

05/06 5,061 (finished 7^th 58 points, best season)

06/07 4,814 (finished 8^th 46 points)

07/08 4,753 (finished 9^th 43 points)

08/09 4,457 (finished 12^th 37 points)

10/11 4,526 (finished 7^th 53 points)

11/12 4,166 (10^th best possible finish currently 33 points)

What mroe interesting is that there is a good chance we will finish on less points than we were relegated with before!

[Northern_jaggie]

Thanks for that Joe. My stats neglect the last three games of the season perhaps that where the discrepancy lies.

Last night I did feel a sense of relief after getting the point, securing an SPL place would always be a priority and now we have a true rival in the SPL we can welcome next season with anticipation.

Interesting quoting ESPN

May 2, 2012 Team Total Average

1 Celtic 858,010 50,471

2 Rangers 834,198 46,344

3 Heart of Midlothian 241,704 13,428

4 Hibernian 172,990 9,610

5 Aberdeen 165,921 9,217

6 DundeeUnited 133,007 7,389

7) Motherwell 105,520 5,862

8 Kilmarnock 106,852 5,623

9 Dunfermline Athletic 87,909 4,883

10 St Mirren 81,825 4,545

11 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 74,984 4,165

12 St Johnstone 68,595 4,035

Looking at our attandances relative to the rest of the league and our current league position, they do look to match. Perhaps our will and expectations are too high of ourselves?

[CaleyD]

Looking at our attandances relative to the rest of the league and our current league position, they do look to match. Perhaps our will and expectations are too high of ourselves?

I was asked the other day if "Managing Expectations" would be on my headstone as it's something I go on about a lot....and as I have said elsewhere, I think that was something that was handled poorly this season, both by the Manager and by us as fans.

[Govan Jaggie]

Please remember when looking at crowd stats that Killie and Dunfermline give old firm fans around 7000 seats. Having said that looking at our own back yard, we wre crap all season and know one could really be arsed going.

[ictchris]

Please remember when looking at crowd stats that Killie and Dunfermline give old firm fans around 7000 seats. Having said that looking at our own back yard, we wre crap all season and know one could really be arsed going.

That's a good point, we are limited in that we can only give 2500 odd tickets to the Old Firm.

I probably can't talk about this much as I haven't made it to a home game this season :o

You do have to ask where the 1000 fans who came in 2005/06 are now, although some of the attendances that season were very similar to the crowds we've drawn this time out.

[CaleyD]

IMO, I think we've had periods where there's been a lot of "Phantom" Season Tickets.

I know that we've had people in the past who were ripping the pysh with some of the Family Section/Free Kids ticket offers because it was cheaper to buy there and pretend they were taking a couple of kids than it was for them to be honest and pay the due price.

Changing ticket structures and initiatives also need to be taken into consideration, and you would also need to know how the figures split in terms of season tickets and walk-up to get a true picture of the where and whys of the declines.

In short, it's not an exact science, although it doesn't need to be in order to realise we've taken a not insignificant dip this season. You also don't need to be a seer to know we'll likely take another dip next season.

[lukemackay]

Please remember when looking at crowd stats that Killie and Dunfermline give old firm fans around 7000 seats. Having said that looking at our own back yard, we wre crap all season and know one could really be arsed going.

That's a good point, we are limited in that we can only give 2500 odd tickets to the Old Firm.

I probably can't talk about this much as I haven't made it to a home game this season :o

You do have to ask where the 1000 fans who came in 2005/06 are now, although some of the attendances that season were very similar to the crowds we've drawn this time out.

The novelty wore off I think