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lets just forget it these games will happen. The results were kind as well we still lead motherwell and Aberdeen and i believe yes we have been poor but i think we will be more consistent than some other teams this year. St Js will do well again this year but will also lose games as will dundee utd and everyone further down the table. Every tem will take points off each other below celtic and frankly people who thought the title was possible were getting a little carried away but i feel we will still have a fine season and sitting 2nd after 9 games is beyond our wildest dreams

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Can I just remind everyone that we are second in the league, three points below the wealthiest club in Scotland.   Why all the despondency at this early stage? Why give so much criticism to a mana

lets just forget it these games will happen. The results were kind as well we still lead motherwell and Aberdeen and i believe yes we have been poor but i think we will be more consistent than some ot

We missed the overlapping runs from raven. The passing and distribution throughout the park was poor, nobody made runs into space or gave options for passing. Too often playing high balls which the st

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Can I just say well done to Ross County for beating Aberdeen yesterday. This was much appreciated. We hope we can get motivated to give you a game in a few weeks time and hope last year's pattern of defeats with you and St Johnstone is not replicated.

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I think Polworth already was the experiment. I expect him to drop out next week. Not that you can lay blame onto one person but that might mean Ross to central, then Greenhalgh out wide?

The important thing is to be confident and not dwell too long on a terrible result. Learn from it but know we can beat anyone on our day.

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I was going to be missing this game but last minute changes of plan meant I could go.

We never play well in Perth. From a classy performance against Hibs to that rubbish.

Mind you, Top Six Next Year had the worst day of all.

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God that was awful. It's not often you struggle to find something positive, but yesterday was one of those days. I think it also feels so bad because we have been so good at home this year and have some real highs to compare it to, so it may simply be a bad day at the office. Too many important players had a day to forget, and so the ones brought in really struggled. polworth was dreadfully exposed, but then draper and foran were floundering and unable to help. If greenhalgh had come into that game, it would have meant putting nick ross into the middle where he would have been bullied out of it completely by a pretty well rampant saints. Losing Dave Raven to injury was a real blow, shows you the importance of a settled back four.

Ach well, you go from that second half against Hibs to yesterday in the space of a week - that's why we love football.

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One bad result in a fantastic start to season. Let's try and stay positive and move on. Perth for some reason has been an unhappy hunting ground for four or five seasons for us.

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No point in analysing was a bad day all round ,all teams have them at some stage in season lets hope that was ours . Best to forget about it and move on .We are hurting so bad as its been so good for so long then we get a real hammering all over the park .

St. Johnstone just didn't let us play .Lets hope Ravens injury is not too serious as he is obviously very important to us.

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Before the game I was not at all confident - mainly becos Saint J's are our bogey team and worse in Perf but I have been worried about the more defensive system that we have adopted away from home and TB's trait of stubborn resistance to change especially when there is criticism. It feels like the first task is not to concede - evidently the "goal" of most teams. But it has felt that it has become do not concede at all cost and we are playing deeper than we ever have done with a tendency / ? Direction to hoof the ball if in doubt and not to try and play football out of defence. We also then leave McKay stranded and none of the midfielders appear to have settled in to the other alteration of any 1 or 2 from 5 attacking and the others looking to hold.

What happened yesterday as it has not done this season is that the opposition scored first and we had no Plan B to adjust to or we allowed the opposition to take control.

TB appears to have sorted out the home dilemma and needs to tweak the away system. I suspect that he may be concerned about criticism of losing silly goals away from home which we have done in past seasons - but I think that he should resort back to the hit on the break 4-2-2-1-1 system where we have previously been at our best - but that also requires changes - in many ways similar to the frustrations of seeing Roberts or Shane utilised as wingers and no pure substitute in the Andy Shinnie role. So let's get Doran wide again - get Ross off the flank - and put Pepper or Greenhalgh out wide - and let's look at somebody else in the hole. I would love to see McKay in that role with Agadoo as the target man but it is not Vincent.

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St Johnstone just completely dominated us, especially in the first 30 minutes.  They pushed us deep and pressured us when we were in possession, forcing us to hit long balls which didn't work.  When St Johnstone had possession they used it well, May looks a very good player.  The second goal in particular was superbly well worked.  We managed to push our way back into things to an extent although we were never really the better side and didn't threaten, aside from a long range shot by Doran.  St Johnstone did to us what we do to other teams, dominated the midfield, tight at the back and dangerous up front.

 

From our perspective we lost the midfield so offered nothing going forward.  Butcher obviously thougth Polworth would be better holding position than Greenhalgh and give us more of a physical presence but he was overrun, especially in the first half.  He did improve in the second, with some decent touches but we were far gone by then.  The defence was imbalanced by Raven being out, who I assume was injured.  Devine was pish, it was like the game at Tynecastle years ago when Roy McBain was sent off and we played Grant Munro at full back, he was slow, didn't get forward and thus contributed to us surrendering possession.  I feel a bit sorry for Devine, obviously we didn't want to break up Meekings and Warren in the middle.  Danny tends to get shunted into an unfamiliar role - he played in centre-mid a fefew times last season as well.

 

For once the international break is welcome, we can regroup, hopefully get injured players back (although I hear Vincent is out for months) and hopefully get a decent win against Partick.

 

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If greenhalgh had come into that game, it would have meant putting nick ross into the middle where he would have been bullied out of it completely by a pretty well rampant saints.

 

That's a fair point, but IMO Greenhalgh should have started.  I'd actually drop Nick Ross to be honest - he's been poor particularly away from for the last few weeks.

 

And what has happened to Curtis Allen?  Apparently he's now injury free and 100% fit, but he hasn't featured at all.  He was fairly highly rated in Northern Ireland I believe and can also play that role behind Mckay.  Is it time we chucked him in there with Vincent being out for a considerable amount of time?

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If greenhalgh had come into that game, it would have meant putting nick ross into the middle where he would have been bullied out of it completely by a pretty well rampant saints.

 

That's a fair point, but IMO Greenhalgh should have started.  I'd actually drop Nick Ross to be honest - he's been poor particularly away from for the last few weeks.

 

What has happened to Curtis Allen?  Apparently he's now injury free and 100% fit, but he hasn't featured at all.  He was fairly highly rated in Northern Ireland I believe and can also play that role behind Mckay.  Is it time we chucked him in there with Vincent being out for a considerable amount of time?

 

 

Curtis Allen is apparently really struggling to adapt to the fitness required for this level. Apparently a very talented player technically but his fitness is not there yet

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Funnily enough, I've only seen him once, in a U20 match quite a while ago and I thought he looked a bit tubby!

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Regarding Curtis Allen's fitness, I suppose that's where the U20 games come in. I believe Terry was at a managers' meeting recently where the general consensus was looking at reinstating a reserve league for next season. That would give the fringe players more games.

 

St. Johnstone certainly seem to be a real thorn in our side. I think we've only scored once against them in the last eight meetings!

It was a result I didn't see coming - a bit like the 1-5 hiding we took against Motherwell last year. That was written off as a bad day and we recovered straight away.

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Just seen the highlights, message for Terry n Mo,  take the lead football boots away from the players, they don't work.

 

Devine is PYSH at RB, what was TB thinking about!

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Even with the changes to the team or system, we should still have been able to string 2 or 3 passes together especially 1st half,

 or are our opponents now doing their homework on us because it was the same at Pittodrie 2 weeks ago.

Some players were going around the park as if they had ball and chains attached !

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As many of us realised long ago, Butcher is many things, but a tactical maestro is not one of them.  The team are made to play a certain way from the start and when it's evident that it's not working, nothing is changed and we don't know what to do.  There seems to be no Plan B at all.  Substitutions are almost always far too late, very predictable and very unimaginative.  And what was the sense in throwing Polworth in at the deep-end like that?  He was like a fish out of water and was kept on the field for 72 minutes - it was 72 minutes too long.  There's no rules against a half-time change, or even a first half change (the French are big on this apparently) and this was a prime example of when one was needed.  And what does it say to Greenhalgh who was superb last week, when he doesn't get a single minute, while Nick Ross was poor away from home on the wing yet again?  There's no good saying "it was a blip", "they were better than us" and other such cliches , when we've been poor away for four consecutive games now and the tactics have been identical essentially every time.  It wasn't "a blip", it was another consecutive bad away performance.

 

But what do we do away from home?  With no real Andrew Shinnie character in the squad this year and particularly since Vincent's injury, would a switch to a 4-1-2-2-1/4-3-3 set-up make a difference?  We could go back to soaking up the pressure and then hitting teams on the break with Foran sat in-front of the defence, Draper and someone else (possibly Ross who's always been better in the middle IMO) in the middle and then Doran on one wing and then Greenhalgh or Watkins on the other side, rotating throughout the game, attacking teams out wide?  With the players we have available, it could be a better set-up than the all too predictable 4-2-3-1.

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As many of us realised long ago, Butcher is many things, but a tactical maestro is not one of them.  The team are made to play a certain way from the start and when it's evident that it's not working, nothing is changed and we don't know what to do.  There seems to be no Plan B at all.  Substitutions are almost always far too late, very predictable and very unimaginative.  And what was the sense in throwing Polworth in at the deep-end like that?  He was like a fish out of water and was kept on the field for 72 minutes - it was 72 minutes too long.  There's no rules against a half-time change, or even a first half change (the French are big on this apparently) and this was a prime example of when one was needed.  And what does it say to Greenhalgh who was superb last week, when he doesn't get a single minute, while Nick Ross was poor away from home on the wing yet again?  There's no good saying "it was a blip", "they were better than us" and other such cliches , when we've been poor away for four consecutive games now and the tactics have been identical essentially every time.  It wasn't "a blip", it was another consecutive bad away performance.

 

But what do we do away from home?  With no real Andrew Shinnie character in the squad this year and particularly since Vincent's injury, would a switch to a 4-1-2-2-1/4-3-3 set-up make a difference?  We could go back to soaking up the pressure and then hitting teams on the break with Foran sat in-front of the defence, Draper and someone else (possibly Ross who's always been better in the middle IMO) in the middle and then Doran on one wing and then Greenhalgh or Watkins on the other side, rotating throughout the game, attacking teams out wide?  With the players we have available, it could be a better set-up than the all too predictable 4-2-3-1.

Maybe not a tactical maestro but I don't believe we could be in the lofty position we are if he did not have a decent grasp on tactics.

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A bad result indeed but not the end of the world. The next result will tell us if we are one of the top sides or not. Anyway, what should we expect from the budget our manager is given? Top 3, top 6, top 9 or just survival?

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As many of us realised long ago, Butcher is many things, but a tactical maestro is not one of them.  The team are made to play a certain way from the start and when it's evident that it's not working, nothing is changed and we don't know what to do.  There seems to be no Plan B at all.  Substitutions are almost always far too late, very predictable and very unimaginative.  And what was the sense in throwing Polworth in at the deep-end like that?  He was like a fish out of water and was kept on the field for 72 minutes - it was 72 minutes too long.  There's no rules against a half-time change, or even a first half change (the French are big on this apparently) and this was a prime example of when one was needed.  And what does it say to Greenhalgh who was superb last week, when he doesn't get a single minute, while Nick Ross was poor away from home on the wing yet again?  There's no good saying "it was a blip", "they were better than us" and other such cliches , when we've been poor away for four consecutive games now and the tactics have been identical essentially every time.  It wasn't "a blip", it was another consecutive bad away performance.

 

But what do we do away from home?  With no real Andrew Shinnie character in the squad this year and particularly since Vincent's injury, would a switch to a 4-1-2-2-1/4-3-3 set-up make a difference?  We could go back to soaking up the pressure and then hitting teams on the break with Foran sat in-front of the defence, Draper and someone else (possibly Ross who's always been better in the middle IMO) in the middle and then Doran on one wing and then Greenhalgh or Watkins on the other side, rotating throughout the game, attacking teams out wide?  With the players we have available, it could be a better set-up than the all too predictable 4-2-3-1.

Maybe not a tactical maestro but I don't believe we could be in the lofty position we are if he did not have a decent grasp on tactics.

 

 

He's done well in the home games this year and that's by finding a set-up that works and it's working well.  We haven't though really been tested at home yet this season.

 

He needs to find a system that works away from home as the home system does, and know when it needs changing mid-match.  Away performances suggest, carrying on with the way we've been playing, will see more poor results on the road.

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