Support

[clacher_holiday2]

"I see it like this. As an ex....er.......em......Caley fan ( am i allowed to say that?), why is it in the old Highland league days of the 1960s etc, you would get 8000+ turning up for games yet the population was prob a third of what it is today?"

as an ex....er.......em...... caley fan (its ok you can say that) you would probably only see the league champions maybe once or twice in a decade (i dont know if they even did that) and its very unlikely that it would ever be a scottish cup quarter final, comparing todays gates with those of the past is ridiculous when you consider how huge a game that would be compared to the kind of run of the mill quarter final fixture we're used to now.

[clacher_holiday2]

point being that ticket prices count for balls all.  if 10% was added onto the cost of a regular hl ticket to see the league champions back then people wouldve paid it, as theyll have to now even though the game isnt anywhere near as big

[RiG]

i dont know the answer to fans not turning up to league matches , i think the prices are reasonable for me Mrs C and young Master C what i don like is the price being raised for the  appearence of the O.F. we are all in the SPL ,

You think £15 for a child is acceptable for a game against the likes of St. Mirren and Falkirk?

[Charles Bannerman]

This is a subject on which I prefer to comment sparingly since my means of entry to football is not through the turnstiles. But in reality I'm there to work so will ignore any (grumpy!) response which "moves off at a tangent" so to speak!

The economics of football are crazy. The nature of the business is such that your "plant" (the players.... sorry lads!) is only able to work profitably for an hour and a half a fortnight. As a result there is always a struggle to make the books balance and doing so involves accessing other significant income streams outwith the turnstiles. (As a result, in relation to what it costs to produce what people pay to see, seat prices are in effect already heavily subsidised from other sources but I'm not going to take the risk of dwelling on that one.....)

However, in order to survive financially in a very marginal situation, clubs have no alternative but to try to maximise income through the gate. This seems fairly fundamental if survival in the SPL is to be sought.

Question - do you do that by opting for higher prices and a lower crowd or lower prices and a higher crowd? In economic terms, we are looking here at how price elastic demand for seats at a football match is.

It has been assumed in some earlier posts that demand is quite elastic - in other words if you lower your prices, attendances will increase at least in proportion. Would this be the case? Would income be maintained if prices were significantly lowered or would it collapse? Should the board try to find out? Can they afford to take the financial risk? In a short term experiment, how would season ticket holders react to, say, a "pay £10 on the day" experiment for occasional fans?

I certainly think that price elasticity of demand is probably rather variable from match to match. But certainly in the case of a Scottish Cup quarter final at home to Celtic, prices could go pretty high before the game failed to sell out. As a result, in this case, the Board, within the framework of what is normal within top Scottish football, is responsible to the club's stakeholders to glean as much income as possible from this opportunity.

[Kingsmills]

I have to agree with Charles.

Notwithstanding the fact that our club is probably the most prudently run in the league, the fact of he matter is that maintaining ICT as a competive SPL club now costs more than £50,000 a week. That sort of income is hard to sustain and the club can only do so by maximising their income from occasional windfall opportunities such as the Celtic quarter final.

The club have occasionally experimented with reducing league prices in the past and franlky the response of the Inverness public has ben apathetic to say the least.

I would say however that I agree that £15 for a child to watch a game against the likes of Motherwell or St Mirren is far too high a price to ask of those who are reliant on pocket money and are the future of the club.

Iwouldn't mind paying an extra couple of pounds for entry if it meant child prices being reduced to a more acceptable £8 or so.

[Charles Bannerman]

Kingsmills.... Notwithstanding... love it!... what a word.. I really wish it was much more widely used than by the legal profession!

[Action Man]

" Glean as much as possible" ? Well done Charles, that sums it up (  :023: ) perfectly!

The club should be putting more effort into gaining supporters, not solely revenue. The end result would be the same but with bigger crowds!

[Kind of Blue]

Motherwell, a few years back, experimented with lowering ticket prices over a period of time.  The experiment didn't result in any significant increase in crowds and the club reverted to the original ticket prices.

[CaleyD]

The net effect of lowering ticket prices to increase crowds also has to take into account the other revenue streams an increased crowd size brings - like merchandise, food, programmes etc..

Lets say you have £50 surplus income and your considering going to this match - the first thing that comes into a your head is the cost of the ticket and if your going to charge what people feel is "over the odds" then you have immediately given them a reason to look elsewhere.  So not only do you lose out on the £25 from the ticket, you probably lose out on a fair portion of what remains from their surplus income to be used on that day.

If the Club did something to grow the number of bums on seats it then hepls justify spending on a whole range of other income streams to offset the rediced gate revenue, like proper eating facilities (restaurant/diner) and possibly a bar at/near the stadium in order to attract as much as possible from people's leisure funds.  The money is their to be had, and you can have it without leaving your customers feeling like they have just been robbed.

If the club actually made a bit of effort to find out what the people of Inverness want/expect from a matchday and how much they would be willing to pay for that then they would at least have some facts to base decisions on.  You can't compare ICT with most other clubs when it comes to trying these initiatives becase we are in an almost unique situation of not having another SPL team on our doorstep.  In the majority of cases for other clubs they are battling with each other to attract the "local" punters along on matchdays and many will have allegiances elsewhere and already be attending matches elsewhere so it's no wonder they struggle to increase gates.  ICT are only battling with the cinema, rollerbowl, a trip to the supermarket, going into town shopping or watching a match on the TV....and to date, it's a battle they are losing badly.

If the people who post on this forum (and the majority I think will be diehard fans) are becoming disenchanted with these things, then it's a no-brainer that those who are a little less interested don't even include going to see ICT in the equation the moment they see a ticket price that is even slightly unappealing.

[clacher_holiday2]

motherwell made the stand behind the goal opposite the away end £5 a seat.  over an 8 game period the results showed an increase in attendances of about 1,500 a game but it never lasted as all the fans who normally paid to use the other ares of the ground ended up sitting in the stand too, shafting the club £15 a head.

when the stand went back to the normal price the attendances did the same.  i was worth a try but we'd be foolish to not learn the lesson for ourselves.

offering price incentives to attract new customers will result in the loss of hundreds/thousands of perfectly loyal fans to the same deal

[Guest Suspicious Mind]

The net effect of lowering ticket prices to increase crowds also has to take into account the other revenue streams an increased crowd size brings - like merchandise, food, programmes etc..

Lets say you have £50 surplus income and your considering going to this match - the first thing that comes into a your head is the cost of the ticket and if your going to charge what people feel is "over the odds" then you have immediately given them a reason to look elsewhere.  So not only do you lose out on the £25 from the ticket, you probably lose out on a fair portion of what remains from their surplus income to be used on that day.

If the Club did something to grow the number of bums on seats it then helps justify spending on a whole range of other income streams to offset the rediced gate revenue, like proper eating facilities (restaurant/diner) and possibly a bar at/near the stadium in order to attract as much as possible from people's leisure funds.  The money is their to be had, and you can have it without leaving your customers feeling like they have just been robbed.

If the club actually made a bit of effort to find out what the people of Inverness want/expect from a matchday and how much they would be willing to pay for that then they would at least have some facts to base decisions on.  You can't compare ICT with most other clubs when it comes to trying these initiatives because we are in an almost unique situation of not having another SPL team on our doorstep.  In the majority of cases for other clubs they are battling with each other to attract the "local" punters along on matchdays and many will have allegiances elsewhere and already be attending matches elsewhere so it's no wonder they struggle to increase gates.  ICT are only battling with the cinema, rollerbowl, a trip to the supermarket, going into town shopping or watching a match on the TV....and to date, it's a battle they are losing badly.

If the people who post on this forum (and the majority I think will be diehard fans) are becoming disenchanted with these things, then it's a no-brain er that those who are a little less interested don't even include going to see ICT in the equation the moment they see a ticket price that is even slightly unappealing.

CD, would imagine that us along with most other clubs have fixed income agreements with suppliers such as caterers, bookmakers etc. therefore no increase in revenue no matter how much they spend. Equally, no loss if income is poor. This became all the rage to ensure "cost and income certainty". Might sell afew more programmes but financial gain is limited. Truth be told, ticket price/bums on seats is the only way of increasing revenue and as usual all these diehard fans are desperate to go to a match against the OF!

On the subject of kid prices a season ticket could have been purchase for as little as £40 and paid up over three months. Less than going to three games. But if, as is often the case, your only real interest is when the "big boys" come to town the £15/£17 doesseem expensive. The fact is if that's the only game your going to I would charge you £25!

I have sympathy for ST holders, who have to fork out extra for cup games and are subject to the same price charge as the one off attendee. Must be a better way of doing it and it needs addressed.

Don't have too much sympathy for all the new faces who appear for the one off.

[RednBlackComeback]

Yes the ticket prices for the cup game are extortionate.

However, I think the prices for a season ticket for the family section in the North Stand is very reasonable. If the club were to make even more family section seats available, and with the tickets being payable over 3 months, then there really is no excuse why families cannot afford to watch ICT. A child season ticket pays for itself after only 6 matches !

Surely the answer is for the club to bump up the price of the OF cup games, as they have done, but discount the cup ticket price to season ticket holders. Maybe this would even provide a use for those 'vouchers' at the end of the season book, none of which I have ever used !!!. This would add incentive for folk to buy a season ticket and also ensure that when the OF come to town then the local OF fans will have to pay through their, blue or green, noses to watch the game !!!!

[RednBlackComeback]

Disregarding the up coming cup game and talking about our support in general.....

In order to have a big support there needs to be a desire for folk to attend..... To create a desire means that folk want to be entertained and get value for money......Which in turn means that when folk do attend they want to be involved in a large crowd making plenty noise creating a great atmosphere and see good football on the park.....

In ICT it can certainly be said that on their day there is good football a plenty to justify the admission price.

However,

Where a large turnout and great atmosphere is concerned it's a bit of a catch 22 situation. Without a large turnout there's not gonna be a great atmosphere and without a great atmosphere not so many folk have the desire to turnout ! A situation not helped by the fact that we only have 3 stands so most of the atmosphere that is created is lost out the open side of the ground. We can't expect the club to go to the expens of building another stand in the hope of enticing more folk to attend so therefore we are stuck with what we have.

It could also be argued that some of the atmosphere that is created is a bit cringeworthy........."give me a c" anyone..... and "caley...clap...clap...clap" !!!!! :029:

The merger has been mentioned previously in this thread as having no real effect on ICT's current attendances. I would argue that point. I know a great deal of ex Jags and caley fans that refuse to support ICT (personally it took me about 6 years to accept ICT after the merger as I felt, and still feel, that Jags were very hard done by). It has been said that these ex-fans are in the minority but what about their kids and families? These ex-fans feel so strongly that there's no way they'll promote ICT to their kids or friends or families!

I guess what I'm trying to say is.....It will be a generation at least before ICT build a substantial local support ! :007:

[clacher_holiday2]

kids and their families... jesus the merger was only 12 years ago!  all have minds of their own.

ultimatley the numbers who believe the old way of things in inverness was better are a drop in the ocean, or the puddle

[RednBlackComeback]

kids and their families... jesus the merger was only 12 years ago!  all have minds of their own.

Aye, which makes the kids of these fans now teenagers who have been brought up by ICT hating parents, who will likely have inflicted their views not just on their kids but on all of their family!!! Hopefully in time these teenagers will grow into ICT followers ?

[clacher_holiday2]

numbers about 20 in inverness

[SMEE]

To clacher_holiday....I was just re-reading some of this thread and thought i would clear a point u made in reply to my earlier post. When i was referring to crowds of 8000 in 60s, I wasnt meaning for OF teams or the like. I was meaning run of the mill Highland league games against the likes of Lossiemouth etc!!

[Alex MacLeod]

CD, I notice you frequently mention the spin of profits that could be made if ticket pricing encouraged more bums on seats and I agree this could be true of merchandising and programmes but I dont think its the case for food.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the catering stalls are leased out. The company that run them pay an amount pre- agreed for the priviledge and all profit from sales goes into their pocket and not the clubs.

[Conival]

How many fans do we get a games from further afield than Inverness? I really across the Highlands?

Would it be worth the club doing exhibition games in some of the more remote places in the region against local teams? Places like Kyle of Lochalsh, Fort William, Ullapool, Wick, Thurso. Maybe even out to Stornoway and Kirkwall. My impression is that ICT are focussed soley on the town.

While they are doing this, giving out money off vouchers to people out in these places to encourage them to come to games when they are in Sneck might be another idea.

[clacher_holiday2]

To clacher_holiday....I was just re-reading some of this thread and thought i would clear a point u made in reply to my earlier post. When i was referring to crowds of 8000 in 60s, I wasnt meaning for OF teams or the like. I was meaning run of the mill Highland league games against the likes of Lossiemouth etc!!

proove it..!

the club doesnt have a clue about pr and marketting, as i learnt through various conversations on saturday evening!  they will never, ever, do anything.. they have a budget of about £20 a week

[SMEE]

clacher_holiday, if you read In A Different League by Rod Clyne i think, which covers the forst 100 years of The Highland League, am sure you will find Im not far wrong!!

[Charles Bannerman]

SMEE.. a slight excess of Hellmanns and Horlicks there I think. Yes, crowds of 8000 were know in Inverness in days gone by but you're rather nostalgically trying to present that as the rule rather than the exception. Yes, crowds were bigger in these days because of a lack if counter attractions but, in general nowhere near THAT large.

RandBCB...  even the total Thistle and Caley support was only a fraction of current levels and the modest slice of that which was lost was a tiny price to pay for massive progress.

[SMEE]

Has anyone got a copy of the book to hand? I clearly remember reading about AND being amazed by the crowds mentioned throught the book. In comparison, I was at A caley game in midweek which there was (if i remember correctly) 82. At minimum, am sure the average crowd in them days would be more than it is for ICT. U can argue the ....less to do in them days point all you want, but am sure the population rise would cancel that out.

[clacher_holiday2]

id have to see these figures to believe them, as my experience with highland league football is a bit different!

[SMEE]

My memories of crowds etc are the same of yours clacher, as i sed, i went wen Caley were not the sucessful team and crowds were pish. Think it was Keith that was THE team at that point.