Disillusioned Or Not? (merged)

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

KB - I would hope that you know that I am a true supporter - others are viewing my posts as being negative and that I am a doomsayer - IHE may wind peeple up - This thread is 100% Johndo Mackenzie - from the heart and critical with rationale.

WOC - This all started off with Niculae and Brewster - the decision making in the last TWO seasons have been absolutely deplorable - Charlie Christie; Barry Wilson; Denis Wyness; Graham Bayne; John Rankin; Don Cowie; Ian Black; the selections; the formations; the tactics; the substitutions; the playing players clearly out of position; the constant chopping and changing; the arrogance; the ignorance of the support.

Anger and frustration - Yer FECKIN spot on - cos all the above were supported - and the blame was projected on to Brewster, Niculae, the players aforementioned and the FANS. The Muppets have not once accepted responsibility.

ALEX - We always had a 3000ish hard core home support - a lot of us paid megabucks to follow from afar - I probably spent as much as Bennett's expenses last season. :022:

The financial problems have come from the peeple who have been running this club.

I am Caley till I die and I will continue to post and I will continue to be a regular hindrance at games - and ma Smileymometer will be as honest as ever. But I am ENTITLED to my opinion.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Now this is what I alluded to - This is communication - This is a degree of honesty - This is a positive start:

Caley Thistle manager Terry Butcher continues to lead squad building plans whilst attending the European under-21 championships as part of his UEFA license course.

Meanwhile, intense work continues behind the scenes to reflect a support structure for SFL status while providing resources for the first team aimed at a quick return to the SPL.

Following consultation some roles have had to be reduced in hours, some staff agreed to salary reductions and a limited number of posts being made redundant.

Two senior members of staff were quick to assist in reducing the cost curve. Director of Football Graeme Bennett is no longer receiving a salary and the position of Chief Executive has been abolished replacing it with the title General Manager in a flatter management structure with Mike Smith continuing in that role after agreeing a salary saving.

Announcing these changes, club chairman George Fraser stresses that the departure of Danny Macdonald as Head of Youth and Community will not affect our continued commitment to the development of homegrown talent.

"We appreciate the staff's understanding of our new financial constraints."

"Danny has chosen to leave the club and we thank him for his contribution and wish him well in his future employment", said Mr Fraser.

"He has left a very good structure in place which we intend to build upon as an integral part of the club. It is more important than ever that we try and maintain the Youth and Community section to develop our own players going forward."

"We are committed to being an SFA performance club at under 17 to under 11 age levels. All of the full-time staff at this age group and in these programmes will be continuing with the club except for the one member who has taken up a new post with one of our clients - a post which he had applied for prior to our relegation."

"More difficult is the under 19 structure which last year cost the club ?160k net of the UEFA Solidarity payment received via the SPL - that ?90k+ is no longer available to the club."

"Obviously this sort of money is just not available this year but we are still trying to pursue other options at under 19 level for the coming season."

Mr Fraser stresses that the confidentiality of all employment discussions must be respected.

"We will have a fluid situation over the next few weeks until we have fully established a revised support structure for the next 12 months", he explained today.

"We were all aware we would have to restructure following relegation and we're doing so against a challenging economic environment where unemployment is unfortunately rising and all businesses are facing tough decisions. Added to that, football has its own problems with the Setanta scenario causing most clubs to be in reflective mode in relation to their financial position."

"But in setting our new structure, we are mindful that people's jobs are at stake and in fairness to them confidentiality is paramount -- supporters would expect that in their own employment."

The chairman added: "Both Graeme Bennett and I have spoken to Terry Butcher on where we are in the re-signing of players and the pursuit of new ones. That dialogue continues."

"The club has been forced to downsize after facing a reduction in income of nearly 60%, but we are stable because we have no debt and the support of the fans, through season ticket and commercial sales, has been very positive. Once the new operational structure is in place, we will be in an improved forward trading position to allow us to focus on success in the SFL."

"That's the picture and I ask the fans to remain patient and thank them for their understanding as we complete the restructuring process."

:022: B) B) POWER TO THE FECKIN PEEPLE - This IS down to this Forum :) :)

But respect where respect is due - Lets just hope that the peeple we have retained can show the results.

Butcher has ma total respect - Grasser will always have ma respect but most of ma venom - Smith doesnt deserve a penny cos he aint EVER done feck all.

[Guest birdog]

Now this is what I alluded to - This is communication - This is a degree of honesty - This is a positive start:

Caley Thistle manager Terry Butcher continues to lead squad building plans whilst attending the European under-21 championships as part of his UEFA license course.

Meanwhile, intense work continues behind the scenes to reflect a support structure for SFL status while providing resources for the first team aimed at a quick return to the SPL.

Following consultation some roles have had to be reduced in hours, some staff agreed to salary reductions and a limited number of posts being made redundant.

Two senior members of staff were quick to assist in reducing the cost curve. Director of Football Graeme Bennett is no longer receiving a salary and the position of Chief Executive has been abolished replacing it with the title General Manager in a flatter management structure with Mike Smith continuing in that role after agreeing a salary saving.

Announcing these changes, club chairman George Fraser stresses that the departure of Danny Macdonald as Head of Youth and Community will not affect our continued commitment to the development of homegrown talent.

"We appreciate the staff's understanding of our new financial constraints."

"Danny has chosen to leave the club and we thank him for his contribution and wish him well in his future employment", said Mr Fraser.

"He has left a very good structure in place which we intend to build upon as an integral part of the club. It is more important than ever that we try and maintain the Youth and Community section to develop our own players going forward."

"We are committed to being an SFA performance club at under 17 to under 11 age levels. All of the full-time staff at this age group and in these programmes will be continuing with the club except for the one member who has taken up a new post with one of our clients - a post which he had applied for prior to our relegation."

"More difficult is the under 19 structure which last year cost the club ?160k net of the UEFA Solidarity payment received via the SPL - that ?90k+ is no longer available to the club."

"Obviously this sort of money is just not available this year but we are still trying to pursue other options at under 19 level for the coming season."

Mr Fraser stresses that the confidentiality of all employment discussions must be respected.

"We will have a fluid situation over the next few weeks until we have fully established a revised support structure for the next 12 months", he explained today.

"We were all aware we would have to restructure following relegation and we're doing so against a challenging economic environment where unemployment is unfortunately rising and all businesses are facing tough decisions. Added to that, football has its own problems with the Setanta scenario causing most clubs to be in reflective mode in relation to their financial position."

"But in setting our new structure, we are mindful that people's jobs are at stake and in fairness to them confidentiality is paramount -- supporters would expect that in their own employment."

The chairman added: "Both Graeme Bennett and I have spoken to Terry Butcher on where we are in the re-signing of players and the pursuit of new ones. That dialogue continues."

"The club has been forced to downsize after facing a reduction in income of nearly 60%, but we are stable because we have no debt and the support of the fans, through season ticket and commercial sales, has been very positive. Once the new operational structure is in place, we will be in an improved forward trading position to allow us to focus on success in the SFL."

"That's the picture and I ask the fans to remain patient and thank them for their understanding as we complete the restructuring process."

B) B) B) POWER TO THE FECKIN PEEPLE - This IS down to this Forum :) :)

But respect where respect is due - Lets just hope that the peeple we have retained can show the results.

:022: B) B) :) :)

[caleyrule]

We always had a 3000ish hard core home support - a lot of us paid megabucks to follow from afar - I probably spent as much as Bennett's expenses last season. :022:

The financial problems have come from the peeple who have been running this club.

Bennett's expenses came to very little season so there is no need for the continual bomb-bardment of people saying his expenses will be huge as they arent

What financial problems? We are not in debt, never have been in debt, so what do you mean by financial problems?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

TWO WORDS - MARIUS NICULAE. Oh and wait for the new accounts.

Read ma feckin post my friend - I said I had spent this much this season as Grasser was paid in expenses. And that is about ?8K

Stick yer feckin head in the corporate sand bucket.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Scotty
personal abuse amended

[tm4tj]

keep up ye olde git, this has a thread of it's own mun.

[Scotty]

never have been in debt

sorry, that statement is wrong ... we almost went to the wall because of the debt of building the stadium and the access road. This is where/when Mr Sutherland first came on the scene, restructured us and did some jiggery pokery to make the debt disappear.

I am also not looking forward to the next two sets of accounts because regardless of who is in the right or wrong - IHE and Stevico as well as the club know far more about that than me - it appears there will be a large Niculae shaped hole in one of them and a relegation income drop in the other.

If Johndo (as opposed to IHE) is a barometer of the mood, I would say that today's statement could be a tentative first step in getting back to some honest communication and I applaud it. I dont care if this website had a role to play or not, the important thing is that the statement seems to be more honest and open than we have had in the recent past.

[caleyrule]

TWO WORD - erse creep - MARIUS NICULAE. Oh and wait for the new accounts.

Read ma feckin post my friend - I said I had spent this much this season as Grasser was paid in expenses. And that is about ?8K

Stick yer feckin head in the corporate sand bucket.

Marius Niculae money as i have said before has already been put aside all ?250k of it incase

You may have put ?8k this year but Grasser expenses aren't 8k infact they are around 5k max

[caleyrule]

never have been in debt

sorry, that statement is wrong ... we almost went to the wall because of the debt of building the stadium and the access road. This is where/when Mr Sutherland first came on the scene, restructured us and did some jiggery pokery to make the debt disappear.

This may be the case, but the 1/2 year accounts since the club have been formed, the club according to them the club have never been in debt meaning that even when this was the case it was for under 6 months MAX and concerding some of the state of the clubs i think that is something to be proud of to be honest

[WYNESS101]

because of the debt of building the stadium and the access road.

[qutoe]

There was already a road there. Wasnt there one for the dump before the built the stadium on it?

[CaleyD]

I think it's about time we had a re-print of Charlie Bannermans book so as the younger fans can read up a bit on how the club came to exist and the problems they faced along the way.

[Scotty]

This may be the case, but the 1/2 year accounts since the club have been formed, the club according to them the club have never been in debt meaning that even when this was the case it was for under 6 months MAX and concerding some of the state of the clubs i think that is something to be proud of to be honest

I am indeed proud that we appear to have been debt free for a number of years, but as someone who was on the brink of creating the "pay a player" fundraising scheme detailed in Ian Broadfoots book, and who has been a shareholder from early on, I know we were in debt ..... If you dont believe me? try these links

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/665361.stm

http://www.ictfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Club...~892997,00.html

or read the history of seasons 1999-2000 to the start of 2002-2003 here http://caleythistleonline.com/club-guide/ict-history. This history was provided by Ian Broadfoot, the club historian and is replicated on the official website and in his book "Going Ballistic" so it is a matter of official record. This shows we were in deep debt for a long time and certainly way more than 6 months. Hell, I was even present at the meeting in the stadium when we had a board of directors resign en-masse because of it.

because of the debt of building the stadium and the access road.

There was already a road there. Wasnt there one for the dump before the built the stadium on it?

again, read the history, this time the 1995/96 one .... while there may have been a bit of a road there in the first place (a small part of the bit that away fans use to arrive/leave), the club had to build the stadium and the access road that goes round from the harbour. I am not sure of the exact financial amounts finally involved but we got 900K to help build the stadium (which cost 5m) and the harbour trust helped with the access road ... however, they didnt fund it all and that expenditure basically created the millstone around our neck that was the debt referred to above.

[Scotty]

I think it's about time we had a re-print of Charlie Bannermans book so as the younger fans can read up a bit on how the club came to exist and the problems they faced along the way.

"Against All Odds" deals with the creation of Caley Thistle .... Ian's account of the first 10 years in "Going Ballistic" has more info regarding what came after ... like the debt.

[CaleyD]

Get a reprint of them both, maybe in a double volume as opposed to individual books and perhaps even have someone write a new section on our 5 years in the SPL.

I seriously think there's a "new" market out there for it with the post-merger generation starting to come through and learning to read....we could even have a novelty version printed in text speak

[Scotty]

have someone write a new section on our 5 years in the SPL.

"The Wilderness Years"

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

TWO WORD - erse creep - MARIUS NICULAE. Oh and wait for the new accounts.

Read ma feckin post my friend - I said I had spent this much this season as Grasser was paid in expenses. And that is about ?8K

Stick yer feckin head in the corporate sand bucket.

Marius Niculae money as i have said before has already been put aside all ?250k of it incase

You may have put ?8k this year but Grasser expenses aren't 8k infact they are around 5k max

Why has ?250K been put aside ? What is it for ? In case of what ? Why dont we just settle up and get on with it ? What could we do NOW if we had ?250K to spend ? Will that be shown in the annual accounts ? Have a look at the accounts for expenses last year !!

Anyway most of my money goes to TravelLodge, Innes bar, Fairways and tesco spirits dept.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Interesting - a "wall of silence" from the representatives of the Board - what a feckin surprise ?

Come on boys and girl - answer the questions

[Alex MacLeod]

And on the subject of communication

http://www.ictfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News...1698011,00.html

[Guest birdog]

And on the subject of communication

http://www.ictfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News...1698011,00.html

Very encouraging, contracts offered to two or three players and given the context of the paragraph it looks like they are new recruits. I also like the way it is hinted that due to the setanta situation the management are biding their time to see what scraps they can pick up on the cheap.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Yip - the communication channel would appear to have opened - thank feck we shoogled with the remote control and put the pressure on once again. Long may the contact continue.

[Scotty]

Interesting - a "wall of silence" from the representatives of the Board - what a feckin surprise ?

Caleyrule seems to have gone quiet on the subject of debt too ..........

[Scarlet Pimple]

Johndo--are you popular at the Club by any chance?

The Harbour road was heavily travelled in days of yore. Oliver Cromwell, whom I knew well when this otherwise Calvanistic man became unusually flirtatious with my sister, passed his troops back and fore many times in their visits to the Citadel and the effect of the soldiers' tackety boots on the tarmac was horrific. ICT had to repair all this mayhem and, sadly,..had to resort to debt to achieve this. It occurred to me that using the existing building as AN ADVANCE TICKETING AGENT PRIOR TO MATCH DAYS FOR A MINOR CONTRIBUTION TO COUNCILLORS' EXPENSES WOULD ENSURE HIGHER TICKET SALES DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT WOULD CURTAIL THE LENGTHY JOURNEY ROUND THE CORNER TO THE CLUB, LIKE.

For those who were willing to make it thus far we could hand out a free copy of each of the aforementioned books which would enrich the lives of the younger up-and-coming element who no longer appear to be taught at school how to read or spell, review Geography or History and otherwise are very computer literate but can hardly be called educated. Any resistance to these deeply-insightful and thoughtful comments should be primarily addressed to Chas Bannerman for adjudication. The Scarlet Pimple is otherwise engaged for a week and cannot accept stormy comments , repudiations of his brilliant thoughts or any other negativity currently present, or about to happen, on this site for reasons of solidarity,.like.

But then again no one takes the Scarlet Pimple seriously, so ...................... have a nice day,..like. :015: